Do you not ask yourself "what if I am wrong?"

[kylixguru]

and i will modify that even further

dogmatic religions are dependent on assumptions and refuse to question them when invited to do so even by sincere people in possession of THEIR subjective truth to counter such

Okay, I can go along with that.

So, what do you get when there is dogmatism on both sides of the discussion at the same time?

 

[waitasec]

Okay, I can go along with that.

So, what do you get when there is dogmatism on both sides of the discussion at the same time?

a big mess.

 

[9Westy9]

she was arguing against the idea that god is unjust and uncaring, therefore implying that god is just and caring....i want to know how she knows that

It sounded more like she was arguing against the idea that an atheist knows god is unjust and uncaring. Just my thoughts on the post, I might be wrong

 

[Lady B]

she was arguing against the idea that god is unjust and uncaring, therefore implying that god is just and caring....i want to know how she knows that

To clarify... I was not arguing against the idea that God is unjust and uncaring. I was pointing out how the analogy given could be misconstrued by the atheist with the mindset that God is unjust and uncaring. Debating God's attributes would be a mute argument, Obviously we disagree and It would be futile for me to try to persuade you.The attributes I see in God stem from a relationship with Him.

 

[Lady B]

It sounded more like she was arguing against the idea that an atheist knows god is unjust and uncaring. Just my thoughts on the post, I might be wrong

:clapYou pretty much nailed it, thanks

 

[waitasec]

To clarify... I was not arguing against the idea that God is unjust and uncaring. I was pointing out how the analogy given could be misconstrued by the atheist with the mindset that God is unjust and uncaring.

what puts you in the position that it is misconstrued?

Debating God's attributes would be a mute argument, Obviously we disagree

no we agree with that i just want to know how you are able to make this statement...

I was pointing out how the analogy given could be misconstrued by the atheist with the mindset that God is unjust and uncaring.

and It would be futile for me to try to persuade you.

no i'm there...it is futile to discuss gods attributes

The attributes I see in God stem from a relationship with Him.

notice the word "I" in your statement.
that doesn't include anyone else, so why attempt to expect others to experience your experience...?

 

[Lady B]

what puts you in the position that it is misconstrued?


no we agree with that i just want to know how you are able to make this statement...


no i'm there...it is futile to discuss gods attributes




notice the word "I" in your statement.
that doesn't include anyone else, so why attempt to expect others to experience your experience...?

Is that what I am doing? Did I really ask or expect you experience my personal experience? anyone?
Is their a reason why you are being agressive towards me? have I offended you in some way? If so I apoligise . Now I will humbly leave this discussion between us, thankyou.

 

[waitasec]

Is that what I am doing? Did I really ask or expect you experience my personal experience? anyone?

yes. what do you think saying an atheists POV is misconstrued for them?
you have nothing to do with it.

Is their a reason why you are being agressive towards me? have I offended you in some way? If so I apoligise . Now I will humbly leave this discussion between us, thankyou.

i just don't like it when people assume they can speak for me

 

[Lady B]

yes. what do you think saying an atheists POV is misconstrued for them?
you have nothing to do with it.


i just don't like it when people assume they can speak for me

The analogy could be misconstrued not the pov.
I did not presuppose the pov, It has been stated repeatedly in this thread alone. I do believe I also used the term not inclusive.

I do apologize for seeming to assume for you, however I feel you have totally misread many of my posts and have baited me aggressively on points I never even made
.

 

[waitasec]

The analogy could be misconstrued not the pov.

you were the one who said atheists will twist that ant analogy...by stating it will be picked apart...by whom?

in essence you were speaking for me.

 

[Me Myself]

Any analogy or argument can me misconstrued.

So, supposedly you made the thread to "understand" how someone can be without believing in God.

Have you yet realized that you probably wont?

 

[Alceste]

Is that what I am doing? Did I really ask or expect you experience my personal experience? .

I know this is not for me, but I'll give you my perspective anyway.

The point of view that the existence of God is impossible still leaves us the need to explain why people believe. Atheists conclude that it's a purely psychological phenomenon. In my case, I see it as an external projection of your own super-ego, which is as unique as any other aspect of your personality. To ask others "how they sleep at night" not having a relationship with your super-ego is very much like asking how they can stand not to be you.

 

[waitasec]

theism makes an unsupported positive case for gods attributes for everyone to understand in the same way.
like a tree is attributed to having roots, a trunk, branches and leaves

but god cannot be understood in that way, the theists speaks for everyone.
and that gets rather annoying after awhile...
just sayin'

 

[Lady B]

I know this is not for me, but I'll give you my perspective anyway.

The point of view that the existence of God is impossible still leaves us the need to explain why people believe. Atheists conclude that it's a purely psychological phenomenon. In my case, I see it as an external projection of your own super-ego, which is as unique as any other aspect of your personality. To ask others "how they sleep at night" not having a relationship with your super-ego is very much like asking how they can stand not to be you.

I respect your perspective and yet I can't comprehend it at all. How is submitting yourself to a higher power a projection of ones own super-ego? The very act of submission downgrades the ego. Let us look from a diferent possible perspective and see that a man who does not submit to a higher authority ,would this not make him his own highest authority=super-ego?

disclaimer- This is a purely speculative conjecture, not assumptions......

 

[Alceste]

I respect your perspective and yet I can't comprehend it at all. How is submitting yourself to a higher power a projection of ones own super-ego? The very act of submission downgrades the ego. Let us look from a diferent possible perspective and see that a man who does not submit to a higher authority ,would this not make him his own highest authority=super-ego?

disclaimer- This is a purely speculative conjecture, not assumptions......

What I mean is that to me it seems theists have taken the part of their mind that makes the rules - the internalized voice of their parents and other authorities - and called it "God". So you are submitting to yourself. This is psychoanalytic ego I'm talking about, not the vernacular synonym for hubris or arrogance. So we are both or own highest authority, but it strikes me as a little more extreme to call yourself "God" and believe EVERYBODY should submit to your authority than simply to be your own higher authority.

Theists get points for the entire process being unconscious, though. If you don't realize your deity is a projection of your Self, you can't really be held responsible.

 

[Sunstone]

Hmmm... I wonder if I'm wrong to think the OP is crazy talk?

 

[Alceste]

Hmmm... I wonder if I'm wrong to think the OP is crazy talk?

It was a little bewildering, but I suspect Lady B had never spoken to an atheist about atheism before, and misunderstood the perspective due to stereotypes she picked up in church (such as the incorrect idea that a life without God is "empty"). She's been working quite hard to understand - I will give her credit for that.

 

[Sunstone]

It was a little bewildering, but I suspect Lady B had never spoken to an atheist about atheism before, and misunderstood the perspective due to stereotypes she picked up in church (such as the incorrect idea that a life without God is "empty"). She's been working quite hard to understand - I will give her credit for that.

I suppose you're right. I've probably misjudged her.

 

[Me Myself]

I respect your perspective and yet I can't comprehend it at all. How is submitting yourself to a higher power a projection of ones own super-ego? The very act of submission downgrades the ego. Let us look from a diferent possible perspective and see that a man who does not submit to a higher authority ,would this not make him his own highest authority=super-ego?

disclaimer- This is a purely speculative conjecture, not assumptions......

I take it you are completely oblivious to the psychological concept she is speaking of?

Yopu are surrendering to what you percieve as god.

In other words, she percieves you to be as humble as somebody telling her than while s/he is a complete sinner, evil person cookie-stealer, her/his imaginary friend is perfect and helps him/her out make good hoices and she would be nowhere without her imaginary friend.

Naturaly, the person would not be refering to her imaginary friend as another aspect of her personality, but still it is.

Likewise, she interprets you do this with God. So you say "you" are a sinner and a cookie-thief but "bob" (i.e :your imaginary friend,/god/ the part of your personality that you refer as if it wasnt you but "someone else" ) is perfect.

 

[Lady B]

It was a little bewildering, but I suspect Lady B had never spoken to an atheist about atheism before, and misunderstood the perspective due to stereotypes she picked up in church (such as the incorrect idea that a life without God is "empty"). She's been working quite hard to understand - I will give her credit for that.

Thankyou so much! I am sincerally trying to understand you without preconcieved notions, albeit it is hard indeed, give me time please and patience that is all I ask and I will try not to misunderstand you as much as my mind allow.