Do you not ask yourself "what if I am wrong?"

[Me Myself]

What if you are wrong and only people who believe in eternal hell can go there?

 

[gnomon]

What if you are wrong and only people who believe in eternal hell can go there?

You would like David Mitchell's response to Pascal's Wager.

[youtube]o3ha18O1dAI[/youtube]
David Mitchell on Pascals Wager - YouTube

 

[Searching For Truth]

Well I figured this is a good way to make my first post...

I think we are all wrong...

example

Christians say you must believe in God and Jesus His only begotten Son who died for your sins...

Islam says you must believe in God and Mohammed was His messenger and you must believe the Qur'an is 100% Gods word, The Qur'an says Jesus didn't die for your sins

Two sincere religions that both Love God both with billions of followers.. Complete contradiction in teachings!!!

SOMEBODY IS WRONG...

Is it there fault???

I believe in God!!! I can't see how anyone would believe in evolution until they can explain why it has stopped??? Why are there still monkeys???

The whole going to hell talk is nonsense to me and the biggest problem with all religions who claim LOVE LOVE LOVE but preach HELL HELL HELL... someone has missed the point somewhere!!!

Oh yea and Hello to all...

 

[kylixguru]

I'm not afraid or God or the Devil because I don't think they exist. So I can live my life the way I want, with no boundaries to a book.

What if YOU are wrong? What if you are adhering to a moral code that prevents you from doing things you actually wanted to do? Do you sleep well knowing that maybe you are wasting your life?

I have discovered in some instances, many in fact, I have been wrong.
I'm open to anyone at anytime to consider where I am depriving myself unjustly or injuring another.
Part of being alive and having a truly genuine life is keeping your eyes and ears open.

That which I understand God to be, I have seen face to face with my own eyes.
Therefore, you are going to have a rather difficult time convincing me I didn't see Him.

 

[kylixguru]

Well I figured this is a good way to make my first post...

I think we are all wrong...

example

Christians say you must believe in God and Jesus His only begotten Son who died for your sins...

Islam says you must believe in God and Mohammed was His messenger and you must believe the Qur'an is 100% Gods word, The Qur'an says Jesus didn't die for your sins

Two sincere religions that both Love God both with billions of followers.. Complete contradiction in teachings!!!

SOMEBODY IS WRONG...

Is it there fault???

I believe in God!!! I can't see how anyone would believe in evolution until they can explain why it has stopped??? Why are there still monkeys???

The whole going to hell talk is nonsense to me and the biggest problem with all religions who claim LOVE LOVE LOVE but preach HELL HELL HELL... someone has missed the point somewhere!!!

Oh yea and Hello to all...

Your example is an interesting one.
Perhaps you should start a new thread on it.
Welcome to the forums!

 

[gnomon]

Well I figured this is a good way to make my first post...

I think we are all wrong...

example

Christians say you must believe in God and Jesus His only begotten Son who died for your sins...

Islam says you must believe in God and Mohammed was His messenger and you must believe the Qur'an is 100% Gods word, The Qur'an says Jesus didn't die for your sins

Two sincere religions that both Love God both with billions of followers.. Complete contradiction in teachings!!!

SOMEBODY IS WRONG...

Is it there fault???

I believe in God!!! I can't see how anyone would believe in evolution until they can explain why it has stopped??? Why are there still monkeys???

The whole going to hell talk is nonsense to me and the biggest problem with all religions who claim LOVE LOVE LOVE but preach HELL HELL HELL... someone has missed the point somewhere!!!

Oh yea and Hello to all...

Competing mythologies on an objective truth.

That's what you are talking about. Richard Dawkins, whose name on this forum I'm afraid to invoke due to so much stupidity that results in such, touched on this when posed with the exact same question.

[youtube]6mmskXXetcg[/youtube]
Richard Dawkins - "What if you're wrong?" - YouTube

 

[kylixguru]

Competing mythologies on an objective truth.

That's what you are talking about. Richard Dawkins, whose name on this forum I'm afraid to invoke due to so much stupidity that results in such, touched on this when posed with the exact same question.

Uh, that was nothing more than a dodge and a smear.
Why clap and cheer when the question wasn't genuinely answered?

 

[Me Myself]

Uh, that was nothing more than a dodge and a smear.
Why clap and cheer when the question wasn't genuinely answered?

How was it not genuinelty answered? the question was too broad to begin with.

"What if you are wrong?" was what was asked, but what they actually meant to ask was "What if you are wrong AND christian mythology is right" . Well, that will depend on the specific christian mythology you will want to be right. According to some the result would be hell, according to other christian mythologies the result is mere inexistence like in atheist case. According to a lot many Christians it doesn't matter as long as you were a good person and your heart was in the right place.

But then the atheist gets to make the other side of the question "What if you are wrong and Cthulu mythos is right? What if you are wrong and norse mythos is right? what if you are wrong and Hindu mythos is right?"

If I am wrong and God exists as a deity that condemns to eternal hell to all his children that fail a test of limited time (not unlimited like their punishment) , If I am wrong and God demans obedience "Or else" and is willing to fry you out eternally so you serve as an example, then the "true God" is the biggest most terrible terrorist in existence.

Will I gamble for the terrorist? **** no. I prefer to gamble on an unlimited being that at least doesn't have less of a heart than most humans, who would never want their children eternally tortured no matter what. I would prefer a God that at least will truly welcome a child if he really comes back after him, no matter if that is pre or post mortem. Why not?

I want a God better than humans, not a God who is infinitely more terrible than any human Idol who had set foot on this Earth saying "follow me or be damned!" . And if the choice came to that, I would prefer no God at all rather than allowing a single human brother to suffer eternally.

 

[gnomon]

Uh, that was nothing more than a dodge and a smear.
Why clap and cheer when the question wasn't genuinely answered?

You really want to get into this with me?

I'm only seven Bud's and two screwdrivers into the debate so let's go.

That's my nonsensical response to an absurd challenge to my response of a humorous nature to a new member.

But if you think you actually have something I haven't heard or contemplated on I would love to hear it. But first let me wipe my *** and break open another Bud. I need to be prepared.

 

[Searching For Truth]

Your example is an interesting one.
Perhaps you should start a new thread on it.
Welcome to the forums!

Thank you...

 

[kylixguru]

You really want to get into this with me?

What would either of us have to lose, except either our temper or some ignorance or a little of both?

I'm only seven Bud's and two screwdrivers into the debate so let's go.

That's my nonsensical response to an absurd challenge to my response of a humorous nature to a new member.

But if you think you actually have something I haven't heard or contemplated on I would love to hear it. But first let me wipe my *** and break open another Bud. I need to be prepared.

Drink up, you'll probably need it if you really want to go where I've been.

 

[InfidelRiot]

opcorn:

 

[gnomon]

What would either of us have to lose, except either our temper or some ignorance or a little of both?

Drink up, you'll probably need it if you really want to go where I've been.

I prefer to share Infidel's popcorn.

 

[outhouse]

I have been bouncing around the different threads and I see so much false assurance,but what if your wrong?
In all due respect can an atheist have peace? Is there no higher power then science? Do you really sleep well at night content with no God? What happens after death? Where are your loved ones? Is earthly life all you strive for and death is the end of you? Are you so sure, really?
What if...just What if your wrong? What are the consequences of your denial?
:thud:

what if your wrong, works both ways.

denouncing science while alive that applies directly to you more then mythology, and it being the only thing keeping you alive and being able to live a comfortable healthy disease free life.

 

[kylixguru]

How was it not genuinelty answered? the question was too broad to begin with.

Because he made the context even more broad, which didn't help add value. It was a dodge and a smear.

"What if you are wrong?" was what was asked, but what they actually meant to ask was "What if you are wrong AND christian mythology is right" .

I gathered that.

A much more intelligent answer that could have been applauded would have been to acknowledge how he had sincerely attempted to understand for himself and that thus far he only perceived in Christianity a bunch of squabbling fools riddled with factions and contradictions among themselves. He could have drawn attention to the fact that until Christianity itself made up its own mind about what the truth of its tradition really is in a cohesive and harmonious way that he didn't feel a great imperative to worry about it since they couldn't agree themselves. He could have quipped, "I'm wrong according to Catholics? Or Methodists? Or Baptists? Or Mormons? Or what?

Now, mind you, that's still a dodge and a smear, but at least it would have been one with some teeth in it that would have gained a much deeper conviction in that woman's heart and mind.

Well, that will depend on the specific christian mythology you will want to be right. According to some the result would be hell, according to other christian mythologies the result is mere inexistence like in atheist case. According to a lot many Christians it doesn't matter as long as you were a good person and your heart was in the right place.

Yes, you got it!

That's where he should have gone with it to get more teeth as I said above.

But then the atheist gets to make the other side of the question "What if you are wrong and Cthulu mythos is right? What if you are wrong and norse mythos is right? what if you are wrong and Hindu mythos is right?"

That whole paradigm is flawed.

The Bible is a specific document that pertains to those who bound themselves and their posterity to a given covenant that is contained in that legal document. Those of the Cthulu mythos were not a party to the covenant the early Hebrews entered into so it is irrelevant to them, just as it is irrelevant to any other culture not a party to it.

If I am wrong and God exists as a deity that condemns to eternal hell to all his children that fail a test of limited time (not unlimited like their punishment) , If I am wrong and God demans obedience "Or else" and is willing to fry you out eternally so you serve as an example, then the "true God" is the biggest most terrible terrorist in existence.

Which is a very valid point to make when you are standing in the face of a Christian with an over-inflated sense of their need to beat (figuratively speaking) people into submission.

Will I gamble for the terrorist? **** no. I prefer to gamble on an unlimited being that at least doesn't have less of a heart than most humans, who would never want their children eternally tortured no matter what. I would prefer a God that at least will truly welcome a child if he really comes back after him, no matter if that is pre or post mortem. Why not?

That unlimited being I refer to as GOD, as distinct from the local patriarchal God that has been the closest embodiment of GOD for us to relate to, is exactly what you conceive.

GOD is Love.
GOD is Truth.

My God is my Patriarchal Father that lives in and through me. He is God to all who are actually of His seed. There are also other seeds on this planet too, but we don't need to go into all of that. The God of Abraham is the One God FOR THE SEED OF ABRAHAM.

Those who are of the seed of Abraham may either chose to live up to the covenants that enabled them to be such or they can opt out and request to be born through the other lineages that are available on this planet.

I want a God better than humans, not a God who is infinitely more terrible than any human Idol who had set foot on this Earth saying "follow me or be damned!" . And if the choice came to that, I would prefer no God at all rather than allowing a single human brother to suffer eternally.

I hear you!
Indeed I hear you loud and clear.

 

[Me Myself]

Because he made the context even more broad, which didn't help add value. It was a dodge and a smear.

I gathered that.

A much more intelligent answer that could have been applauded would have been to acknowledge how he had sincerely attempted to understand for himself and that thus far he only perceived in Christianity a bunch of squabbling fools riddled with fractions and contradictions among themselves. He could have drawn attention to the fact that until Christianity itself made up its own mind about what the truth of its tradition really is in a cohesive and harmonious way that he didn't feel a great imperative to worry about it since they couldn't agree themselves. He could have quipped, "I'm wrong according to Catholics? Or Methodists? Or Baptists? Or Mormons? Or what?

Now, mind you, that's still a dodge and a smear, but at least it would have been one with some teeth in it that would have gained a much deeper conviction in that woman's heart and mind.

Yes, you got it!

That's where he should have gone with it to get more teeth as I said above.

That whole paradigm is flawed.

The Bible is a specific document that pertains to those who bound themselves and their posterity to a given covenant that is contained in that legal document. Those of the Cthulu mythos were not a party to the covenant the early Hebrews entered into so it is irrelevant to them, just as it is irrelevant to any other culture not a party to it.

Which is a very valid point to make when you are standing in the face of a Christian with an over-inflated sense of their need to beat (figuratively speaking) people into submission.

That unlimited being I refer to as GOD, as distinct from the local patriarchal God that has been the closest embodiment of GOD for us to relate to, is exactly what you conceive.

GOD is Love.
GOD is Truth.

My God is my Patriarchal Father that lives in and through me. He is God to all who are actually of His seed. There are also other seeds on this planet too, but we don't need to go into all of that. The God of Abraham is the One God FOR THE SEED OF ABRAHAM.

Those who are of the seed of Abraham may either chose to live up to the covenants that enabled them to be such or they can opt out and request to be born through the other lineages that are available on this planet.

I hear you!
Indeed I hear you loud and clear.

while he did answered back with other questions I do think he made his point, and that is was relevant to the question. What the asker wants to know isnt really "What if you are wrong?" but "why do you wage like that when it is a bad wage?" and the atheist answer simply pointed at that they were making as "bad" as a wage not waging for all the gods they are not waging at.

I hear that you hear me BTW

 

[kylixguru]

I hear you!
Indeed I hear you loud and clear.

In my quest to search for the truth I have had opportunities to become acquainted with a good number of small groups claiming special knowledge and power, etc. and they had it.

I have had the "outer darkness" gun (so to speak) held to my head by a group's leader for not following their commands. Even though I knew that leader actually had the authority he claimed to, I also knew that I shouldn't do what they were expecting me to do.

It came down to being forced to do something against my own conscience, that pertained to my own responsibilities as a father, or be cast out, possibly into outer darkness if their cursing of me had teeth.

I learned through this experience that the only people who belong in outer darkness are those individuals who have the authority to deal with matters at that level to start with and then they use that authority inappropriately against someone who is undeserving of such.

And, incidentally, I also learned through that experience that outer darkness simply means that you have forthwith become banished from being a part of that Patriarchal group in future cycles of creation.

 

[Lady B]

while he did answered back with other questions I do think he made his point, and that is was relevant to the question. What the asker wants to know isnt really "What if you are wrong?" but "why do you wage like that when it is a bad wage?" and the atheist answer simply pointed at that they were making as "bad" as a wage not waging for all the gods they are not waging at.

I hear that you hear me BTW

Good assumption and leads to other questions, however my question was not about what he wages but how he can be so sure of his gamble. Example, a wise man will only gamble what he can afford to lose. (not promoting gambling here) But the atheist in my understanding is prepared to lose nothing if he is found wrong in the end. How can this be? Do we not tremble when we risk it all ? Yet I find when I read these posts that there is no fear, no concern for what is the consequence of betting it all on a Godless hopeless life.

You may ask same of me, feel free, but I hang my hope on nothing less then Christ's promises and righteousness, I have hope, I have assurance, I have peace and by God I wish the same for all of us.

 

[Me Myself]

Good assumption and leads to other questions, however my question was not about what he wages but how he can be so sure of his gamble. Example, a wise man will only gamble what he can afford to lose. (not promoting gambling here) But the atheist in my understanding is prepared to lose nothing if he is found wrong in the end. How can this be? Do we not tremble when we risk it all ? Yet I find when I read these posts that there is no fear, no concern for what is the consequence of betting it all on a Godless hopeless life.

You may ask same of me, feel free, but I hang my hope on nothing less then Christ's promises and righteousness, I have hope, I have assurance, I have peace and by God I wish the same for all of us.

We all have hope, but hope different things. So, you do not ask yourself "What if I am wrong and I will go to hell because of not believing in Quetzalcoatl?"

The same way you are not worried about Quetzalcoatl and find it silly to be worried of such, many atheists are just not worried of Hell, because they find it equally silly than Quetzalcoatl.

you dont fear all the gods you do not believe in do you? If you do not, then it should be easy to understand how many of them don't fear the christian god .

Simply put, you are gambling too. You seem to be pretending the only two options for the gamble are atheism and Christianity, but you are gambling against a lot of other religions that will also lead yo to awful afterlives if you did not follow those.

 

[Searching For Truth]

Good assumption and leads to other questions, however my question was not about what he wages but how he can be so sure of his gamble. Example, a wise man will only gamble what he can afford to lose. (not promoting gambling here) But the atheist in my understanding is prepared to lose nothing if he is found wrong in the end. How can this be? Do we not tremble when we risk it all ? Yet I find when I read these posts that there is no fear, no concern for what is the consequence of betting it all on a Godless hopeless life.

You may ask same of me, feel free, but I hang my hope on nothing less then Christ's promises and righteousness, I have hope, I have assurance, I have peace and by God I wish the same for all of us.

I think if its a matter of what if and seeing things as a gamble then someone is missing the whole point!!!