Do you pirate movies online?

[nutshell]

So it's legal to download and watch a movie in your home for free, using a file sharing program, just as long as you don't burn a DVD and sell it to another?

No - it's not legal to download copyrighted material for free, using a file sharing program unless permission is given by the copyright holder.

But is it still morally right to download a movie for free and watch it, using a file sharing program?

I don't believe so.

 

[FFH]

No - it's not legal to download copyrighted material for free, using a file sharing program unless permission is given by the copyright holder.

Okay, great, I see the difference now, thanks for clarifying that.

I don't believe so.

I guess it depends on whether the person who produced the music or movie gave permission or not, after they had sold all the CD's and DVD's they could.

Old or ancient releases, for example, might be legal and moral to download and watch for free in some or many cases, once they have made as much money as they can on them.

At any rate LimeWire has a feature which flags the copyrighted materials so you can avoid downloading copyrighted materials.

 

[yossarian22]

Again, I've just purchased a new computer with plenty of space for movies, with a standard CD/DVD burner, but would not want to do anything that would be illegal.
What are the rules ???

1. Downloading a movie through file sharing is illegal unless the content owner has authorized it.
2. It is legal to burn a DVD provided you own said DVD and do not attempt to sell the DVD. This applies to audio CDs as well as any sort of information. You can do anything you want to something you own save for distributing without the content owner's permission.
3. Many DVDs and CDs have copy protection. It is legal to circumvent such protection. It is illegal to sell or provide information on how to circumvent copy protection.

 

[FFH]

1. Downloading a movie through file sharing is illegal unless the content owner has authorized it.
2. It is legal to burn a DVD provided you own said DVD and do not attempt to sell the DVD. This applies to audio CDs as well as any sort of information. You can do anything you want to something you own save for distributing without the content owner's permission.
3. Many DVDs and CDs have copy protection. It is legal to circumvent such protection. It is illegal to sell or provide information on how to circumvent copy protection.

Okay, great, thanks for this great concise info.

Ah just remembered Nutshell said he translates Japanese for lawyers so it would be understandable he would also know the rules and be very much aware of what's going on out there concerning this.

 

[yossarian22]

Okay, great, thanks for this great concise info.

No problem. I had to read the DMCA and a few other copyright things for classes.

Ah just remembered Nutshell said he translates Japanese for lawyers so it would be understandable he would also know the rules and be very much aware of what's going on out there concerning this.

I imagine he would.
I find myself on the pirates side of things though. Not that I support the stealing of music and video, but the whole digital rights management thing ****** me off. If you did not know, its basically dictates how you can and cannot use a file. Apple, for instance, uses their own blend of DRM (common acronym) to prevent you from using the music you bought (and therefore own) from them on MP3 players competing against the iPod. If I buy something, I should have the right to do whatever the hell I want with it save for illegal distribution.

 

[nutshell]

I imagine he would.
I find myself on the pirates side of things though. Not that I support the stealing of music and video, but the whole digital rights management thing ****** me off. If you did not know, its basically dictates how you can and cannot use a file. Apple, for instance, uses their own blend of DRM (common acronym) to prevent you from using the music you bought (and therefore own) from them on MP3 players competing against the iPod. If I buy something, I should have the right to do whatever the hell I want with it save for illegal distribution.

I don't necessarily disgree with you here, but this may be analagous to Blue Ray and HD-DVD. You own the product you bought, but the manufacturers are free to dictate the format of the product. I don't think we would expect our HD-DVDs to play on Blue Ray, but for some reason we have this expectation for DRM. I admit I'm not tech savvy and this analogy may be completely off.

 

[Kungfuzed]

I think the whole concept of owning an idea is rediculous. If I were to copy a song or movie, I am not taking anything from anyone. The owner of the song still has the origional. It's no different than someone building a replica of a Ferrari, or planting seeds from fruit they bought in the store, it's just alot quicker and easier. If I could copy watermellons as quickly and easily as songs and movies, would I be getting sued by farmers?

Also consider that if I hear a song and have a good memory I can store a copy in my mind and play it over and over. To protect intellectual property, one would have to exersize thought control. Stealing is taking something that doesn't belong to you. Do my memories not belong to me? I have lots of songs and movies memorized. As far as intellectual property goes, seeing or hearing is owning. I think if someone doesn't want their "art" copied and passed around they should just keep it to themselves. Keep it off the radio, off the net, off of CDs and DVDs, and off the TV. If you absolutely have to share your "art" for profit just stick to live preformances.

One could argue that file sharing causes "artists" to loose money. To download a song from someone online doesn't cost the "artist" anything, in fact, it saves the record company the cost of having to print and ship another CD. It also gives the downloader the opportunity to evaluate weather the CD is actually worth buying or not. I would never consider buying a CD or DVD that I havent heard or seen yet.

Sharing is supposed to be a good thing. I can share the contents of my refrigerator but not the contents of my own hard drive.

None of this is about art. It's all about money. Art will always exist weather money is made or not. Art would be better off without copyrights. What is art without freedom? Without copyrights, everyone is free to take another's idea and build on it and improve it. I'm not saying anyone should break the law, only that the law is rediculous and unenforcable and counterproductive.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

I just watch, i never donwload, never. I just watch it online. I only watch big films, i won't go and watch a random russian film which didn't make it, now would i nutshell? My £10 going to make a difference to 1 billion? Come on people, i see new films come out all the time, big ones, destined to make loads of cash. You can't always go to the cinema, in a year youd fork out about £200, what an immense waste, when you can watch it for free, on your own computer, crisp clear too. I think LimeWire is illegal, so i opted for FrostWire, on wikipedia, it actually states that it is legal. Or maybe get BitLord, and go to Mininova : The ultimate BitTorrent source! They have all the newest stuff to download, all legal. Its great. I like watching my movies online, so that way i don't waste money on the cinemas, unless a film like transformers comes out, then i'd go (which i did)

 

[Don Penguinoini]

I think the whole concept of owning an idea is rediculous. If I were to copy a song or movie, I am not taking anything from anyone. The owner of the song still has the origional. It's no different than someone building a replica of a Ferrari, or planting seeds from fruit they bought in the store, it's just alot quicker and easier. If I could copy watermellons as quickly and easily as songs and movies, would I be getting sued by farmers?

Also consider that if I hear a song and have a good memory I can store a copy in my mind and play it over and over. To protect intellectual property, one would have to exersize thought control. Stealing is taking something that doesn't belong to you. Do my memories not belong to me? I have lots of songs and movies memorized. As far as intellectual property goes, seeing or hearing is owning. I think if someone doesn't want their "art" copied and passed around they should just keep it to themselves. Keep it off the radio, off the net, off of CDs and DVDs, and off the TV. If you absolutely have to share your "art" for profit just stick to live preformances.

One could argue that file sharing causes "artists" to loose money. To download a song from someone online doesn't cost the "artist" anything, in fact, it saves the record company the cost of having to print and ship another CD. It also gives the downloader the opportunity to evaluate weather the CD is actually worth buying or not. I would never consider buying a CD or DVD that I havent heard or seen yet.

Sharing is supposed to be a good thing. I can share the contents of my refrigerator but not the contents of my own hard drive.

None of this is about art. It's all about money. Art will always exist weather money is made or not. Art would be better off without copyrights. What is art without freedom? Without copyrights, everyone is free to take another's idea and build on it and improve it. I'm not saying anyone should break the law, only that the law is rediculous and unenforcable and counterproductive.

It's all about the money, that is a fact!I agree! Nutshell doesn't see this, however. We are forking out money while they make billions, fair?!

 

[Fluffy]

FFH,
Filesharing programs can share any sort of file. For example, if I create a word document with the text "hello" then I can share this with, for example, bittorrent.

Some files will have copywrights. This means that the copywright holder has exclusive rights to their distribution. It is therefore illegal to upload any file onto other computers (which must happen for you to download it).

In addition, in most countries (barring Canada), it is also illegal to download any file that is copywrighted unless you have permission from the copywright holder.

You don't have to sell or buy copywrighted material in order to be in breach of copywright. You just have to borrow, swap, give or otherwise distribute.

For example, it is illegal to play a cd you have bought at a party unless you pay royalties. It is illegal to copy a cd for a friend. It is illegal to record a tv program and then lend that to a friend. All these things breach copywright because they distribute copywrighted material.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Do you think its wrong, Fluffy?

 

[Fluffy]

Do you think its wrong, Fluffy?

Heya penguino ,
No. I only think it is illegal. I don't believe that breaching copywright causes harm as long as I had no intention of acquiring the material legally.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

I just watch it. A man in CHeltnham was arrested recently... www.tvlinks.com. It got shut down. Only another 6700 to go. I dont care about the actors and staff etc. They get paid enough, no need to get greedy. Besides, im a normal londoner, we aint all rich.

 

[Fluffy]

I just watch it. A man in CHeltnham was arrested recently... www.tvlinks.com. It got shut down. Only another 6700 to go. I dont care about the actors and staff etc. They get paid enough, no need to get greedy. Besides, im a normal londoner, we aint all rich.

If you aren't going to purchase a dvd anyway then they would need to source the wages of their staff elsewhere regardless. Therefore, you are not affecting their income by downloading as long as you aren't downloading rather than purchasing.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

I would never buy in the first place, unless its a fantastic film.

 

[yossarian22]

I don't necessarily disgree with you here, but this may be analagous to Blue Ray and HD-DVD. You own the product you bought, but the manufacturers are free to dictate the format of the product. I don't think we would expect our HD-DVDs to play on Blue Ray, but for some reason we have this expectation for DRM. I admit I'm not tech savvy and this analogy may be completely off.

Sure, a manufacturer can sell you data in any format they wish. They cannot, or rather should not, prevent you from using something you owned however you wish provided you do not distribute it. Here is an example of DRM that makes me see red.
Songs downloaded the iTunes store have a nice little DRM package on them called fairplay. Its little more than a scramble of numbers in front of an AAC audio format file which makes it unreadable to most mp3 players. The effect of this is you can only use songs downloaded from iTunes on an iPod. Its horse****, and thankfully it is changing. Some iTunes songs no longer have this fairplay crap on them and, to bring me to another point, come in higher bit rates. I mean 128 kbs? Come on! Where's the lossless format?

 

[yossarian22]

I think the whole concept of owning an idea is rediculous.

If I were to copy a song or movie, I am not taking anything from anyone.

You just took a sale from a company.

The owner of the song still has the origional. It's no different than someone building a replica of a Ferrari, or planting seeds from fruit they bought in the store, it's just alot quicker and easier.

For one thing, seeds from fruit rarely bloom. Building a car from the blueprints of a Ferrari is illegal without consent of the manufacturere

If I could copy watermellons as quickly and easily as songs and movies, would I be getting sued by farmers?

Go try to "copy" a watermelon. Something like a watermelon is not equivalent to say, an incandescent lightbulb. For the former, you are merely paying somebody for time spent growing the watermelon. A lightbulb takes technical knowhow. If you can produce a movie as easily as you grow a watermelon, do share your secret

Also consider that if I hear a song and have a good memory I can store a copy in my mind and play it over and over.

Then why pirate music at all? Just listen to the song once and listen to it over and over again in your mind

One could argue that file sharing causes "artists" to loose money. To download a song from someone online doesn't cost the "artist" anything, in fact, it saves the record company the cost of having to print and ship another CD.

Too bad you typically pay a record company to print and ship said CD. Face it, downloading illegally costs an artist money.

I would never consider buying a CD or DVD that I havent heard or seen yet.

Its called the radio and the movie theatre

Sharing is supposed to be a good thing. I can share the contents of my refrigerator but not the contents of my own hard drive.

Because you could make virtually everything in your refridgerator given enough time. You could not create that movie given enough time. Its why intellectual property exists in the first place.

Without copyrights, everyone is free to take another's idea and build on it and improve it.

What, specifically, is stopping you from taking another's idea and building on it? There is nothing saying you can't modify an artist's song and make it your own. You merely cannot copy parts of a song directly.

 

[Kungfuzed]

You just took a sale from a company.

By that reasoning, I should already own every CD and DVD that I never downloaded.

For one thing, seeds from fruit rarely bloom. Building a car from the blueprints of a Ferrari is illegal without consent of the manufacturere

Seems legal to me.

Go try to "copy" a watermelon. Something like a watermelon is not equivalent to say, an incandescent lightbulb. For the former, you are merely paying somebody for time spent growing the watermelon. A lightbulb takes technical knowhow. If you can produce a movie as easily as you grow a watermelon, do share your secret

Watermelons copy themselves. If I grow my own watermelon I am taking a sale from a farmer. As for copying a movie, it's easily done with a computer. The poor farmer, however, doesn't have millions of dollars to sue everyone who wants to plant their own garden. Farming does take alot of time, hard work, and financial investment.

Then why pirate music at all? Just listen to the song once and listen to it over and over again in your mind

I do that. But radio stations only play one or two select songs off of each CD, just the best ones, then when I go out and buy it I discover the rest of the CD is crap. What pirating can do for people is give them a chance to share their music and movie collection with others so we can all sample what we like and know what CD or movie is worth paying for.

Too bad you typically pay a record company to print and ship said CD. Face it, downloading illegally costs an artist money.

Again, you're assuming that if I didn't download the CD then I would go out and buy it. There are thousands of CDs I haven't downloaded.

Its called the radio and the movie theatre

I do go to the movie theater on occasion, and if it's really good I'll by the DVD. The movie theater provides an experience I can't have in my little apartment. Radio sucks. They play a sped up version of a song and the reception isn't always that good.

I work for a cable company, and have a DVR that was provided to me by them and that any customer with digital cable can have. I can record any movie or TV show I want in digital format and watch it whenever I want. It even has a USB port on the back to hook up a computer and make backups. Is the cable company not file sharing? Is this no different than recording a song off the radio or downloading it off the net? How is a DVR or Tivo not illegal but file sharing is?

Because you could make virtually everything in your refridgerator given enough time. You could not create that movie given enough time. Its why intellectual property exists in the first place.

I could never create a watermelon from scratch even if I were a biologist. All I can do is make copies by planting seeds and watering them. My computer can rip a CD into any format I want easily.

What, specifically, is stopping you from taking another's idea and building on it? There is nothing saying you can't modify an artist's song and make it your own. You merely cannot copy parts of a song directly.

Talent. I have no musical ability whatsoever and that's the main thing stopping me from taking another's idea and building on it.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Why not donwload music? Its not like im going pay a ridicoulous amount of money for a few good songs, whether i would get the songs or not, i would NEVER buy an album. And movies, whats the big deal, it aint like i would watch it in the cinema anyways.

P.S. Do you agree with my reasoning?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

No, I don't agree Penguino. I'm an artist, and Nutshell is absolutely right. You may not affect the millionaire celebs with pirating, but you affect most of the industry that don't make that kind of money. It's the very, very few at the top that make the "billions" or "millions" that you suggest. Most everyone else are just struggling to get by like everyone else - and in most cases less than the national average.

How many actors out in California and NYC work as bartenders/waiters as their main source of income? Think about it.




Peace,
Mystic