Do you really think you are helping anyone?

[Draka]

How am I supposed to know about all these different religions if someone isn't out there evangelizing? I've got the gist about most of the "big" religions but it would take a lifetime to learn about all these smaller sects. There must be a million pagan religions out there and I'm guessing most of them are far more different from each other than a Lutheran and a Methodist. Christian evangelism stems from the thankfulness of what a person has encountered and a natural desire for others to know the same love they've encountered. Is the pagan experience with whatever power they're encountering different?

How are you supposed to know? There is information all around you. Online, in bookstores, friends and neighbors. If you truly want to learn about something then it is on you to go out and seek that knowledge. Not to sit back and wait for people to tell you about it. Are you responsible for your own education or is everyone else?

 

[Vinayaka]

I find the study of comparative religion fascinating . I also like to know more about other faiths so that I can refute them. I admit that I believe with all my heart that forgiveness for our sins is available. If you love the world it's only natural that you'd want the rest of your fellow man to not face the wrath of God on judgment day.

Since you claim to know the gist of other faiths, please tell me what you know of Saivism, and I'll let you know where your misconceptions lay. If you're really fascinated, it just could lead to an interesting discussion. But I don't have my hopes up. Quite likely you believe I'm going to hell and need to be 'saved' so it could well be not much of a decent start to realistic dialogue.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

How are you supposed to know? There is information all around you. Online, in bookstores, friends and neighbors. If you truly want to learn about something then it is on you to go out and seek that knowledge. Not to sit back and wait for people to tell you about it. Are you responsible for your own education or is everyone else?

If paganism is that great and that satisfying isn't your duty to your fellow man to at least go out of your way to expose this wondeful religion to them?

 

[Vinayaka]

When someone believes in a truth claim it is only natural for them to share that with people who are close to them, whether it be family or friends.

I don't think its natural at all. I think its more natural to keep it to yourself. But I can see how cultural conditioning might make it seem more natural to you, and less to me.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Since you claim to know the gist of other faiths, please tell me what you know of Saivism, and I'll let you know where your misconceptions lay. If you're really fascinated, it just could lead to an interesting discussion. But I don't have my hopes up. Quite likely you believe I'm going to hell and need to be 'saved' so it could well be not much of a decent start to realistic dialogue.

When I said the "big" faiths I was refering to things like Islam, Judaism, and Christianity as well as some general knowledge about some of the different sects in each. I know a little about Buddism and the Bahai faith. I know this will probably be taken as offensive by you though I genuinly don't mean it to be offensive but I never heard of Saivism untill you brought it up.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Since you claim to know the gist of other faiths, please tell me what you know of Saivism, and I'll let you know where your misconceptions lay. If you're really fascinated, it just could lead to an interesting discussion. But I don't have my hopes up. Quite likely you believe I'm going to hell and need to be 'saved' so it could well be not much of a decent start to realistic dialogue.

can you recommend a good place for me to start learing about this faith of yours? Do you want to tell me the gist of it right now?

 

[Vinayaka]

can you recommend a good place for me to start learing about this faith of yours? Do you want to tell me the gist of it right now?

That's not surprising. (We don't proseletyse.) Google it. That's what I'd do if I wanted to learn about somebody's faith.

 

[Vinayaka]

The 'gist' just doesn't cover any religion. Sometimes the 'gist' may simply be ... 'its bad' . In order to really comprehend any religion, you have to live it. Otherwise its just some intellectual exercise in storing 'facts' .

 

[Honibaz]

I don't think its natural at all. I think its more natural to keep it to yourself. But I can see how cultural conditioning might make it seem more natural to you, and less to me.

OK, I'll bite...what "cultural conditioning" is taking place that might make it "seem" more natural to me, and less to you?

 

[Honibaz]

Firstly, I am the only one accountable for my deeds, good or bad or half-warmed and a day old. Why would I have a problems with that? Secondly, what I have issue with is not about being exposed to different lines of thoughts and ideas at all. I welcome that. What I find rude is for someone to tell me what I should believe because they happen to believe it. What I find to be rude is the assumption from people like this that I don't have good reason for believing what I do and not believing what they do. It's about rudeness and over-stepping. It's about conclusions and assumptions. If people want to discuss their beliefs with me while being receptive and non-judgmental about hearing mine then fine, we can share ideas back and forth all day long. That's how we learn about each other and different views in the world. However, if someone is only interested in telling me how wrong I am and how right they are and how I NEED to believe what they believe or else...I have no time or patience for that rudeness.

So someone (or some people) actually came up to you and used the words "you should believe like me because I believe it", "you don't have a good reason for believing what you do", or "let me tell you how wrong you are and how right I am"?

I guess it's possible, but it sounds more like you just don't like the idea of absolute truth, specifically the kind that come from the Christian doctrines of accountability and eternal punishment. It also sounds like you're projecting a lot of those motivations onto people (once again of the Christian brand, but if I'm wrong on that let me know) instead of the claim itself.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

The 'gist' just doesn't cover any religion. Sometimes the 'gist' may simply be ... 'its bad' . In order to really comprehend any religion, you have to live it. Otherwise its just some intellectual exercise in storing 'facts' .

How are you supposed to decide whether to follow it unless it stands on some firm theological truth? You've probably heard Christianity summed up: Sin separates us from God, Jesus dies so that justice is carried out for our sin. Belief in Jesus=forgiveness and restored relationship with God.
I've literally just read a couple of websites on Saivism. Maybe they weren't clear on what you believe. What I got out of it was that Lord Siva is worshipped as the supreme being. I heard that it has connections to a fertility cult. What is the point of worshipping him however? Can you give me the "gist" of your faith as I did about Christianity? Obviously the details need to be sacrificed for the sake of compactness of the message. I don't want to have to enroll in a Saivism seminary to get a basic grasp of it

 

[Vinayaka]

How are you supposed to decide whether to follow it unless it stands on some firm theological truth? You've probably heard Christianity summed up: Sin separates us from God, Jesus dies so that justice is carried out for our sin. Belief in Jesus=forgiveness and restored relationship with God.
I've literally just read a couple of websites on Saivism. Maybe they weren't clear on what you believe. What I got out of it was that Lord Siva is worshipped as the supreme being. What is the point of worshipping him however? Can you give me the "gist" of your faith as I did about Christianity? Obviously the details need to be sacrificed for the sake of compactness of the message. I don't want to have to enroll in a Saivism seminary to get a basic grasp of it

There is no such thing as a Saivism seminar, as its not so much of an intellectual religion. we don't have go-betweens between us and god. We figure things out for ourselves.

Siva is God. Immanent and transcendent. You got that much. Worshipping Siva alleviates karma, and leads one to a become a better person ... more humane ... more introspective ... less pushy ... in short ... nicer. One central tenet of Saivism is to attain moksha. The scriptures include Vedas, Agamas, and much more, probably 20 times at least as yours. Its your whole life 24 -7. That's about as short of a summary I could come up with.

 

[McBell]

How are you supposed to decide whether to follow it unless it stands on some firm theological truth?

Would you please be so kind as to present a few examples of a "firm theological truth"?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

There is no such thing as a Saivism seminar, as its not so much of an intellectual religion. we don't have go-betweens between us and god. We figure things out for ourselves.

Siva is God. Immanent and transcendent. You got that much. Worshipping Siva alleviates karma, and leads one to a become a better person ... more humane ... more introspective ... less pushy ... in short ... nicer. One central tenet of Saivism is to attain moksha. The scriptures include Vedas, Agamas, and much more, probably 20 times at least as yours. Its your whole life 24 -7. That's about as short of a summary I could come up with.

What do fertility cults have to do with it?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Would you please be so kind as to present a few examples of a "firm theological truth"?

We should just dispense with the bs and get to the point. You know what I believe as I gave an example of the truth Christians believe when talking about sin separating us from God in the post you pointed out. My guess is that you don't want to hear me say again the message of Jesus, it's posted everywhere on this site. You want proof of whether it's true, am I right?

 

[Katzpur]

Do you really think that other people want to hear you chastise their beliefs and tell them they believe wrong and that they should believe what you believe? Do you have any idea how rude and narcissistic you come off to others when you preach at them and quote scripture at them? Do you honestly think that tactic really helps anyone?

When people approach others in the way you're describing, I absolutely don't think it helps anyone. On the other hand, I know that there are roughly 800-900 convert baptisms into my church every day, so evidently somebody was glad that the Mormon missionaries approached them.

 

[Vinayaka]

What do fertility cults have to do with it?

Absolutely nothing. Where in the world did you get that. I hope not from some site you read.

 

[Vinayaka]

We should just dispense with the bs and get to the point. You know what I believe as I gave an example of the truth Christians believe when talking about sin separating us from God in the post you pointed out. My guess is that you don't want to hear me say again the message of Jesus, it's posted everywhere on this site. You want to know if it's true, am I right?

You're entirely welcome to believe whatever you want to believe. It REALLY doesn't bother me. If it works for you, then I'm happy for you.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Absolutely nothing. Where in the world did you get that. I hope not from some site you read.

Shaivism.net talked about it

 

[-Peacemaker-]

You're entirely welcome to believe whatever you want to believe. It REALLY doesn't bother me. If it works for you, then I'm happy for you.

I appreciate that. The comment was a response to Mestimia