Do you really think you are helping anyone?

[Thief]

but even though they believe it is true that doesn't necessarily make it true. you need evidence to back up the claim that the ship is sinking...
and also, why can't people see if the ship is sinking for themselves...surely they would know if it were...



absolutely...
assumption is a dangerous thing.

All ships sink.
You need evidence for that?
All things fail.

Assumption is a tool.
Properly used it allows a continuance.....where waiting for evidence leaves you standing.
And that could happen literally...right after your last breath.

 

[Thief]

I agree that surgery is more direct, but unfortunately most places require some sort of license.

I actually feel bad for people whose religion requires them to go out and try and convert people. Sometimes, when I'm approached (depending on my mood) I'll sit and listen and even thank the person if they've gone about it politely (I find JWs are generally very polite).

The p-tizers I don't like are the one's who absolutely wont leave you alone until you either agree with them, or **** them off so badly that they have to leave before they find themselves showing you and everyone else within earshot just how emotion-based their 'beliefs" really are.

I generally choose the later option and all it usually takes is showing them that you know more about their own scriptures than they do.

Nice to see you can be patient...I understand it can play against your sensibilities.
But I can see why some people speak too long....and with dogma.
Some people have only what was handed them.

What I find offensive....are the people who strap bombs to their chests...
and then want to hug you.

 

[waitasec]

All ships sink.
You need evidence for that?

huh...?no they don't...not all the functioning ones

All things fail

i'm not sure where you're going with this...like what?

Assumption is a tool.

a dangerous one because some use as truth.

Properly used it allows a continuance.....where waiting for evidence leaves you standing.
And that could happen literally...right after your last breath.

no.. assumption is just that, an assumption...it is not provable until all the facts are in...

actually it would be the proselytizer assuming you are not capable of figuring out for yourself, wouldn't you say?

 

[Draka]

Then I too would be arrogant beyond belief.



No, it`s an act of unbelievable arrogance.

That is an appropriate word for it. Arrogance. For what else explains why it is some think they are any better than I to reason out what it is I should hold to be true? I believe the way I believe for my own reasons. My experiences. I have used my wisdom and intellect and logic to understand what it is I have personally experienced for myself. Now, for anyone else to tell me that I am too stupid to understand my own life experiences (which is inherently what I am being told by anyone who proselytizes to me) just shows an extreme arrogance on their end. I do not presume to tell anyone else that they should believe as I for everyone's experiences and manner of thought are different and their conclusions are no better or worse than mine. So why should anyone else tell me how to believe? What makes them think their stance is any better than mine? Arrogance.

 

[Thief]

huh...?no they don't...not all the functioning ones

i'm not sure where you're going with this...like what?


a dangerous one because some use as truth.



no.. assumption is just that, an assumption...it is not provable until all the facts are in...

And you then take assumption to the point you can't act upon it?

Belief might seem to you an assumption.
(but you have read some of my other postings.....)

If you stand waiting for proof....you'll get left behind.
Could you take assumption as intelligent guess?

 

[waitasec]

And you then take assumption to the point you can't act upon it?

act upon what?

Belief might seem to you an assumption.
(but you have read some of my other postings.....)

If you stand waiting for proof....you'll get left behind.
Could you take assumption as intelligent guess?

but i can't lie to myself can i?

 

[sky dancer]

Why not pick people who are actually interested in Christianity to evangelize and leave the rest of us alone? The only one damning non-christians are you.

 

[sky dancer]

I agree with Kathryn and Rick. Evangelizing is taking the love of Christ out into the world in the form of compassion. The good news is that we are loved, and the way to spread that good news is to love.

I think at it's best, evangelism is altruistic. At it's worst, it's arrogance. It's saying my belief is better than yours and you are damned without it.

 

[Quagmire]

Nice to see you can be patient...I understand it can play against your sensibilities.
.

"Patience ceases to be a virtue once you start letting other people waste your time"
---Benjamin Franklin.

 

[petewentz]

Why not pick people who are actually interested in Christianity to evangelize and leave the rest of us alone? The only one damning non-christians are you.

What about militant atheists? I see a lot of my friends who are atheists actively attempting to convert Christians in our neighborhood? What place do they hold in your opinion?

 

[Draka]

Why not pick people who are actually interested in Christianity to evangelize and leave the rest of us alone? The only one damning non-christians are you.

What about militant atheists? I see a lot of my friends who are atheists actively attempting to convert Christians in our neighborhood? What place do they hold in your opinion?

It does go the same in both directions. I know personally, I'm as disgusted by uppity "I'm smarter than you" atheists telling me I'm stupid to believe in anything deity related as I am arrogant religious proselytizers telling me I should believe the same way as them.

 

[petewentz]

It does go the same in both directions. I know personally, I'm as disgusted by uppity "I'm smarter than you" atheists telling me I'm stupid to believe in anything deity related as I am arrogant religious proselytizers telling me I should believe the same way as them.

Here's the thing, and I'm going to speak callously: I do believe that belief in a bearded man who gave his son to die for us, who designed all of life, who put all the animals on a big ship and told an alcoholic to command it, who made the earth 6,000 years ago, who made only 2 homo sapiens and expected them to breed the rest of the population, is a delusion.

Deism, on the other hand, I can handle. I can respect that as a viable position, but creationism, in the face of overwhelming evidence, I can not. It's not that I'm smarter than anyone on this forum, quite the contrary. I know that many of the users on this site will far outstrip my intellectual credentials and ability.

That said, I will support anyone's beliefs as long as it makes them personally happy, but to try and indoctrinate it onto others as truth, despite the overwhelming for natural theories, that is where I draw the line.

But belief in a supernatural being who governs the universe, or deism, or anything else that isn't fairy tale based is perfectly fine with me as a viable "belief"...I simply choose not to.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

No, it`s an act of unbelievable arrogance.

I can tell you now that it isn't.

I take the "approach me rather than me approach you" way of helping people, by people seeing how I act in my daily life.

But before that, I took a different approach. I tried to speak to my friends about Jesus, because I loved them so much, and I desperately wanted them to achieve salvation. There is no arrogance involved. Merely sadness and deep anguish when they reject you. There is no arrogance involved when you believe that your friends and family will suffer in eternal flames because they did not believe in the Christ. There is no arrogance when you realise you have done nothing to try and bring someone to Christ, and in a way feel guilty that you didn't at least try to speak to them about Christ before it was too late. There is no arrogance involved. There is no sense of superiority. The burden of the truth-bearers is not one that can be carried with arrogance or superiority.

Others may think they can. I can't, anyway. Don't think for one moment you can call it an act of unbelievable arrogance. It isn't for me, anyway.

 

[blackout]

For all kinds of reasons,
every person thinks that certain things
are vital, absolutely important,
necessary for the people around them,
maybe even all people...
to do/understand/believe (in)/subscribe to.

If we all, each one of us,
went around trying to convince/convert/sell
everyone, on/to our own personal way of thinking,
even if it were solely and purely
because we truly believe they need what we have to tell them
in a vitally important way,
can you imagine what a MESS that would be?

You... need to do "this"... or else ... "that"...
If only you lived "this" way.... you would "that"....
coming from everyone's mouth!
Because of course, every person knows THEY are the right one.
eh.

If not "arrogant" it certainly is PRESUMPTUOUS
to believe that all the other people around you
need to do/believe/see/understand as YOU do,
and that it is YOUR JOB to "set them straight".

If your god is gunna send people to a fate of eternal torture
all because YOU didn't "speak up",
then your god,
is a moron.
and a tyrant.
really.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

If your god is gunna send people to a fate of eternal torture
all because YOU didn't "speak up",
then your god,
is a moron.
and a tyrant.
really.

It's good then, that after studying the Bible a lot more I came to the conclusion that this is not the case. Hurrah!

 

[blackout]

It's good then, that after studying the Bible a lot more I came to the conclusion that this is not the case. Hurrah!

Well good for you.
Then there is no reason to go around trying to save people from god,
or themSelves.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Well good for you.
Then there is no reason to go around trying to save people from god,
or themSelves.

Indeed. That's why I said I use the "approach me rather than I approach you" approach.

 

[petewentz]

The golden rule of evangelicalism

 

[Kathryn]

Something just occurred to me: how is this supposed to work, exactly?

I mean, I run into good, happy people of just about every religion, and of no religion at all. I also run into rather nasty and rather unhappy people of just about every religion, and of no religion at all. If I was to try to draw a conclusion of all this, it'd be to say that religion isn't what's making people happy or good, since whether we're happy or good doesn't seem to depend on religion at all.

I mean, how is it "evangelism" for a Christian to do good things if standing next to him is an atheist doing things that are just as good?

Well, I am not talking about atheists. I am not talking about Orthodox Jews. I am only talking about myself and what I do and say.

I can't speak for anyone else's motives, reasons, beliefs, etc or how they impact their lives. All I can do is speak for myself.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Something just occurred to me: how is this supposed to work, exactly?

I mean, I run into good, happy people of just about every religion, and of no religion at all. I also run into rather nasty and rather unhappy people of just about every religion, and of no religion at all. If I was to try to draw a conclusion of all this, it'd be to say that religion isn't what's making people happy or good, since whether we're happy or good doesn't seem to depend on religion at all.

I mean, how is it "evangelism" for a Christian to do good things if standing next to him is an atheist doing things that are just as good?

Hey if someone who meditates is relaxed and happy, perhaps I may consider meditation. If an Atheist is out in the community doing good next to a person of faith, perhaps I may think it does not matter.

How is this supposed to work? Setting a good example can never be wrong no matter what your faith is.