Do You Support Forgiving $10,000 Of Student Loan Debt?

[Shadow Wolf]

problem that does not need to be solved.

Tuition and college debts are severe problems that need fixed.

Why should the taxpayers pay for the loans at all? It is just not th

Taxes are needed to fix this issue by making college tuition free.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So you committed fraud?

No, I went in to it knowing what my options are and very well aware I wouldn't be expected to pay it all back unless I want.

 

[Watchmen]

No, I went in to it knowing what my options are and very well aware I wouldn't be expected to pay it all back unless I want.

What were those options?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Covid created much of this problem and for a variety of reasons. It stands to common sense and decency, imo, to try and help our fellow Americans when a serious problem exists that those affected may not be able to adequately solve on their own, and this is what has happened to so many.

Then why don't we pay for people that cannot pay their medical bills, or mortgage, or car loans or etc. etc.? What is special about a college loan? The other fact is this program will pay off some loan debt for people that can pay, which I would say is most people with school loans.

If we had done what so many other industrialized countries have done to make post high school education more affordable, we wouldn't even be talking about this right now. My cousins in Sweden don't have this as an issue, for example.

Then lets try to make college education more affordable. But that is no argument for to pay for loans people took out voluntarily.

The only serious question, imo, is whether it complies with the law overall, and that's not a gimme, thus it wouldn't surprise me if it failed a court challenge.

We will see on this one.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Tuition and college debts are severe problems that need fixed.

Who created the problem? The answer, the people that took out the loans. I don't mind helping people get back on track to pay off their loans such as many banks do for mortgages, but transferring their debt to the taxpayer is immoral in my opinion.

Taxes are needed to fix this issue by making college tuition free.

Please give a cost and how to pay for that please. How about trade schools? We need more electricians than we need lawyers.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What were those options?

I have to repeat myself again?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Who created the problem? The answer, the people that took out the loans.

How did that make the price of textbooks obscene?

but transferring their debt to the taxpayer is immoral in my opinion.

That's how society functions. We collectively have a debt for running society.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

How did that make the price of textbooks obscene?

They are less today than when I was in college. I have 2 daughters in college. They get their textbooks from thriftbooks etc. and there is almost always an online option. They pay between $5 to $50 per book.

That's how society functions. We collectively have a debt for running society.

The taxpayer should not be forced to pay a debt someone else agreed to pay back. You want lower/free tuition great. Let's work towards that.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They are less today than when I was in college.

That is false. They are buying second hand, meaning the publisher has still recieved payment for an obscenely overpriced book.
Having such options doesn't make something less expensive.
Did You Know? College Textbook Prices Have Increased 88% Since 2006 — The James G. Martin Center for Academic Renewal

The taxpayer should not be forced to pay a debt someone else agreed to pay back. You want lower/free tuition great. Let's work towards that.

This may be the first step towards canceling all college debt and making college tuition free.
Germany themselves took a smaller steps, with making college more affordable and then decided that was still not affordable enough and making theirs tuition free.
And, lets be honest, no one should have to go into debt or live with a crippling debt to serve the public in needed and necessary ways. It shouldn't happen. But, as happens, in America the taxpayers and tradesmen benefit greatly from such people assuming such a massive debt.
As my family has been in healthcare for awhile now, to be honest I read such things as "how dare you get pardoned that debt that gave you the knowledge and training to be part of the team who saved my life after my crap diet induced heart attack." And this hypothetical person has probably never worked on call a day in his life.

 

[Watchmen]

I have to repeat myself again?

If you’re talking about the public service forgiveness programs then you ARE paying back the loan, in part, via your public service. However, that is NOT equivalent to what has happened here where good and honest tax payers are now being asked to shoulder additional debt. Do you understand the distinction. I suggest you read Mike Rowe’s article in the issue. You can find him on Facebook.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you’re talking about the public service forgiveness programs then you ARE paying back the loan, in part, via your public service. However, that is NOT equivalent to what has happened here where good and honest tax payers are now being asked to shoulder additional debt. Do you understand the distinction. I suggest you read Mike Rowe’s article in the issue. You can find him on Facebook.

It's still basically the same thing that my debt is getting passed down the line. One way or another, it's me paying not even half of it back.
And I'm not on Facebook.

 

[Watchmen]

It's still basically the same thing that my debt is getting passed down the line. One way or another, it's me paying not even half of it back.
And I'm not on Facebook.

Nope. Not the same thing at all. But I don’t expect you to see the difference at this point. You’re blinded by the benefit to yourself and/or don’t care. Maybe you can Google Mike Rowe and read up on it.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

You don’t see the difference? We all pay taxes and the government spends our money in ways we don’t like sometimes. In this situation, however, tradesmen and other hard-working Americans who made a conscious decision to forego student loans are now paying for those who VOLUNTARILY took the loans and entered a contract to repay them.

40 billion and more, to pay for nuclear chicken on the other side of the world. A massive prison system. Crappy roads. Bailing out banks

 

[Brickjectivity]

What is special about a college loan?

You cannot declare bankruptcy on a college loan, and the government helps to sucker students into going to college with these govt. backed loans, gets them into debt that they can't pay. Students are under pressure (by their own government) to go to college, but there is no way for them to declare bankruptcy when the college degrees don't work out. That is what is special about a college loan.

Here is how they are under pressure: Somewhere along the way "High school" turned into a menial academy. Public (required by the government) schools have stopped preparing students to go to work and have focused on getting them ready for college. They have pressured the students to go to college first of all by turning high school into a rubber school that is mostly useless and secondly by telling students that they have no excuse not to go to college. They don't teach you law or advanced degrees in so-called high school. You get out with about the same knowledge you had in sixth grade.

High schools don't prepare you to work. They don't (but could) teach you: law, logic, higher mathematics, advanced degrees, real technical education. Why don't they? Because the government has decided that you belong in college! Useless. When you get out of high school you are prepared to work a menial job -- just like before you went to high school. Congratulations!

And that is why college loans are special.

 

[Watchmen]

40 billion and more, to pay for nuclear chicken on the other side of the world. A massive prison system. Crappy roads. Bailing out banks

So because our government is crappy with money it’s ok to keep doing crappy things, like making tradesmen pay for people who went into debt to get useless degrees?

 

[amorphous_constellation]

So because our government is crappy with money it’s ok to keep doing crappy things, like making tradesmen pay for people who went into debt to get useless degrees?

I actually think that both the degree you are talking about, and the trade someone does, is often the product of subjective cultural activity. I think that the problem of utility production was largely solved a long time ago. For example, I am a factory worker, perhaps I am one of the 'tradesmen' you like talking about (so maybe you can cite me instead of some millionaire celebrity, I am covered in grease and oil all the time).

I know full well that basically, I make products that are metaphorical christmas tree decorations. It's just cultural minutiae, that someone will dig up a couple thousand years later; mere objects of future archaelogical wonder. As well, a degree someone might get about roman history or something, is comparable. It's just 'cultural enrichment.'

But that person with a degree about 'thinking about things' probably can help us do something different, perhaps better in the future, as a collective, if we let them. There have to be better ways to set up society and infrastructure than this. There have to be better goals. Maybe they can set it up so there is less pain in the country. The country is in all kinds of pain

You also have a situation here where jobs got outsourced across the ocean, as well as medical supply production, I hear. How does that figure into your rap?

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Here is how they are under pressure: Somewhere along the way "High school" turned into a menial academy. Public (required by the government) schools have stopped preparing students to go to work and have focused on getting them ready for college. They have pressured the students to go to college first of all by turning high school into a rubber school that is mostly useless and secondly by telling students that they have no excuse not to go to college. They don't teach you law or advanced degrees in so-called high school. You get out with about the same knowledge you had in sixth grade.

High schools don't prepare you to work. They don't (but could) teach you: law, logic, higher mathematics, advanced degrees, real technical education. Why don't they? Because the government has decided that you belong in college! Useless. When you get out of high school you are prepared to work a menial job -- just like before you went to high school. Congratulations!

I was thinking something similar not long ago. The economic success and can-do attitude of our forefathers, was likely based on the fact that a limited education did still provide mobility. Fast forward to the situation we are in now, and the baseline was not raised. You'd think they would raise to the baseline, so that a high school graduate could do what is now recognized as basic work.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Please give a cost and how to pay for that please. How about trade schools? We need more electricians than we need lawyers.

What about mere utility? You know that in this country, we are constructing these massive suburb farms over what were actual farms.

Ok, let's say that food prices are going up, due to international conflict. Food prices go up in the grocery store. A tradesmen gets a job, and builds 50 houses over farmland. So now if he makes money, and does not struggle to buy food, does he get the right to blame other americans if they complain about a big grocery bill?

 

[amorphous_constellation]

So you want me to pay for my education, my kids education and someone else education, you also want me to pay for my cars and someone else's cars as well.

At some point, don't you think this is immoral?

All I know, is that at some point fairly soon, you might be taking water from my great lakes state, which is part of the soon-to-be water empire. As long as we are splitting so many hairs, we might as well start debating how it this ought to play out. You chose to live in texas. I heard it was hot and dry there, generally. Make your case as to why people out west should get any of my water. I like to go to the carwash, and take showers without restrictions. If I have to share, should I get a check, sort of similar to what the alaskans get for living on oil wealth? Who should pay me

 

[metis]

Then why don't we pay for people that cannot pay their medical bills, or mortgage, or car loans or etc. etc.? What is special about a college loan? The other fact is this program will pay off some loan debt for people that can pay, which I would say is most people with school loans.

Either you're missing my point and/or you are just skirting around it. We're dealing with education, so if you want to play whataboutism, be my guest, but I don't have such an interest in doing that.