Do You Support Forgiving $10,000 Of Student Loan Debt?

[Shadow Wolf]

The tradesmen thank you for your service and for making America smart. Do you have any other debts they can pay for you?

Not much. It's much easier to manage and get by without things like a credit card than it is to make a livable living without a college degree.

For the record, I’m not a tradesman and I paid off all my student loans myself. Every. Single. Penny. Zero government help. Zero taking from others.

And you've probably had many things in life that I don't have or wasn't given.
What's your point? Other than you apparently want to judge people as "takers" and toot your own horn?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

What do you really think you would achieve without them? There is a reason humans have ALWAYS lived in cooperative collectives. It's because very few of us could survive for long without them. Or would even want to.

Can you answer my question?

It's not up to you. Or me. It's up to all of us collectively to oversee where our elected officials are spending the money we give them. And yet at the same time we have to understand that they are tasked with looking out for society as a whole. And that means they will need to spend our tax dollars on things that don't directly benefit you or me.

I agree, I said just this in my response.

We are living in a very large, very complicated society, now. It gives us great advantages, but it also requires a great deal of oversight. And a lot of people can fall through the cracks. No one's a lone ranger out on the prairie, anymore. Those days are over. It's time to face a world with 7 billion humans on it. There just isn't the room and resources for the kind of greed and selfishness that we've been accustomed to until now. A lot of Americans are having a lot of trouble facing that. They grew up on Hollywood fantasies where the hero gets to live as he pleases. And they grew up in communities where white men ruled, and gave themselves every advantage, and excluded whomever they wanted with impunity. But that's not the reality we live in, now. And if we want to live in THIS reality successfully, we're going to have to learn how to share both the goods and the opportunities. And how to tolerate our differences. And how to NOT be the kings of our own destinies, anymore.

I never agreed to or said any of this. I do not think this way. You said that the collective gets to say where all my money goes. I agree to taxes but not to you or anyone say on where to spend all my money. That is tyranny. Life is not a total sum game. Capitalism allows for all to improve. Just because one person has $100 does not mean that another had $100 taken away from them.

Americans are trying to claw their way back to a past that is gone (if it ever even existed). And it's only making everything worse. It's time to let go of the selfish fantasies pretending to be "freedom" and start cooperating on implementing some new solutions.
Obviously, given the subject of this discussion, it IS true. Your society is going to determine what is yours and what isn't. And you can cry and whine about it til the cows sing, but that's the way it is. An the way is has to be. And you'd better hope that it remains your society that's deciding this, and not some criminal despot. Because they never stop trying to gain that power. And they are very happy to use your selfishness and discontentment to gain that end.

So where has your utopia worked? Capitalism has raised more people out of poverty than any other economic system. The democrats use the promise of free college, free cell phones, free money, government monthly wage etc. to gain power and control over your life. You are seeing it right in front t of your eyes.

Do you think we are doing that??? I don't think you understand that when we neglect and abuse huge sections of the population as we are doing we have already turned against each other and have created an environment that's perfect for the invasion of those always present criminal despots. And they want it ALL, brother. And they'll do whatever it takes to get it all.
On what planet? Because it's sure not on this one.

Way to take my comment out of context. Here is what I actually said, you only quoted what i have bolded.

I don't think you realize that people are not equal and do not have the same abilities or capabilities or desires. Not everyone will achieve the same things in their life. We need to provide an equal and fair starting pint as best we can. So everyone has the opportunity to succeed as they see fit. Some will and some won't. Forcing equal outcomes is tyranny and leads to a society that will be worse off for everyone.

I never said this was reality.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

It's called a society, and America looks awful, terrible and embarrassing in many areas when compared to First World counterparts. American exceptionalism is dead. We need to do things to actually bring America up to par with the rest of the world in order just to say it looks good again.
Education is one of the best ways do to this, and crippling debt defeats the point of getting a higher education in the first place. If anything, y'all should be thanking college grads who took on loans so America doesn't have to import even more brain power. Otherwise those who are born here would rarely fill the positions that require advanced education/huge chunk of debt. That "speak English/English only" crowd should especially really love because without us they'd get far fewer healthcare practitioners who speak it as a native language.
It would look bad, especially bad, if we start having to largely import public school teachers because everyone here took your advice and didn't take on that debt. Just imagine the tourist slogan:
Welcome to America; Home of the obscene wealth gaps and land of the dumb where we're mostly too stupid to even educate our own children."

No one is saying we are unthankful for people that get college degrees. I am saying that they need to pay back what they contractually borrowed. We can spend $500,000,000,000 on better things to help people that did not put themselves in their situation. Or better yet lets not spend it and be fiscally responsible.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No one is saying we are unthankful for people that get college degrees. I am saying that they need to pay back what they contractually borrowed. We can spend $500,000,000,000 on better things to help people that did not put themselves in their situation. Or better yet lets not spend it and be fiscally responsible.

Or better yet we stop revelling how we wallow in our own filth and actually work to improve America so it at least looks like a proper First World country.
It's shameful that it should be still be considered a privilege of the wealthy to get a higher education (especially when we have so many positions going unfilled that require a higher education). That hurts us all, and there isn't much better use of money than using it for an educated populace.

 

[averageJOE]

Crumbs.

That's all this is. Crumbs.

Dems being happy and exited that they are finally being offered crumbs, and Repubs being upset that crumbs are being offered.

 

[Watchmen]

Not much. It's much easier to manage and get by without things like a credit card than it is to make a livable living without a college degree.

And you've probably had many things in life that I don't have or wasn't given.
What's your point? Other than you apparently want to judge people as "takers" and toot your own horn?

My point is the tradesmen thank you for the opportunity to pay off your debt.

Yes. I’m judging. I think it’s immoral.

 

[Watchmen]

Or better yet we stop revelling how we wallow in our own filth and actually work to improve America so it at least looks like a proper First World country.
It's shameful that it should be still be considered a privilege of the wealthy to get a higher education (especially when we have so many positions going unfilled that require a higher education). That hurts us all, and there isn't much better use of money than using it for an educated populace.

Have you ever travelled outside the US?

 

[PureX]

If anyone actually cares, this video will clear up a lot of misinformation ...

 

[metis]

Ok, no worries. Just because we have been ok with debt does not mean it will cause issues later. Do you think there is a maximum amount of debt we should have?

The main concern about the debt is paying the interest, but if that's to pay off our own investors much of the money will stay within our own economy.

You have bought a lie, the debt is already hurting you.

You simply do not understand Economics 101. Plus, if you really were concerned about such debt, you should be VERY angry with the massive debt in the area of defense spending and business subsidies. Let us know when you do that, OK?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Have you ever travelled outside the US?

No, but I've known and talked to many people from over the globe.

Yes. I’m judging. I think it’s immoral.

And I think it's immoral to let people needlessly suffer.

 

[Watchmen]

No, but I've known and talked to many people from over the globe.

And I think it's immoral to let people needlessly suffer.

You’re needlessly suffering? Got it. The tradespeople thank you.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You’re needlessly suffering? Got it. The tradespeople thank you.

The thread is about America's atrocious college tuition and debt situation and Biden's actions to help ameliorate it.
The tradespeople getting the unions they need and deserve is another issue.

 

[Watchmen]

The thread is about America's atrocious college tuition and debt situation and Biden's actions to help ameliorate it.
The tradespeople getting the unions they need and deserve is another issue.

Nope. It’s directly on topic. Tradespeople didn’t take loans but they’re paying the debt for others.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Nope. It’s directly on topic. Tradespeople didn’t take loans but they’re paying the debt for others.

And? We all pay for stuff we get no use out of and stuff we do use. And much of it is ok, especially when it's helping people.
And, oh well. This sort of thing will happen as society improves.
Like, yeah, I'm $20,000 less in debt. But I don't get food stamps, WIC, TANF, or a number other available programs. Yes, I pay for those things, but why should it bother me? I've not benefited from a car incentive program but I do get a lot of use out of the roads (though, even in California it's not really great for getting around in something that's not motorized and I wish they'd address that).
I'm not a big fan of paying for military invasions and aggression, however. That is one thing I detest and despise paying for.

 

[Watchmen]

And? We all pay for stuff we get no use out of and stuff we do use. And much of it is ok, especially when it's helping people.
And, oh well. This sort of thing will happen as society improves.
Like, yeah, I'm $20,000 less in debt. But I don't get food stamps, WIC, TANF, or a number other available programs. Yes, I pay for those things, but why should it bother me? I've not benefited from a car incentive program but I do get a lot of use out of the roads (though, even in California it's not really great for getting around in something that's not motorized and I wish they'd address that).
I'm not a big fan of paying for military invasions and aggression, however. That is one thing I detest and despise paying for.

You don’t see the difference? We all pay taxes and the government spends our money in ways we don’t like sometimes. In this situation, however, tradesmen and other hard-working Americans who made a conscious decision to forego student loans are now paying for those who VOLUNTARILY took the loans and entered a contract to repay them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You don’t see the difference? We all pay taxes and the government spends our money in ways we don’t like sometimes. In this situation, however, tradesmen and other hard-working Americans who made a conscious decision to forego student loans are now paying for those who VOLUNTARILY took the loans and entered a contract to repay them.

So? We all benefit from an educated populace. Just think, if money weren't an issue we might even begin to make progress towards addressing the country's healthcare worker shortage. It'll take more than that, of course, but we'd have more people educated for it.
But, I'll let you in on something. I never intended to fully pay it back. Certain lines of work don't have to. And I found out, much to my great relief, the IRS isn't eyeing this as taxable income.

 

[We Never Know]

Please let us regard student loan debt forgiveness as being fair social justice, because there should have been tuition free college in the first place.

Tuition is like medical care, way over charged.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

You don’t see the difference? We all pay taxes and the government spends our money in ways we don’t like sometimes. In this situation, however, tradesmen and other hard-working Americans who made a conscious decision to forego student loans are now paying for those who VOLUNTARILY took the loans and entered a contract to repay them.

Do you get twitchy when tuition is raised part way through a course?
Or about the cost of tuition generally?

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/02/the...nd-earnings-for-young-workers-since-1980.html

Out of interest, what was your question re: travel outside of the US in relation to?

 

[Suave]

Tuition is like medical care, way over charged.

Perhaps we can agree with price controls in order to keep costs from rising out of control,

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Or better yet we stop revelling how we wallow in our own filth and actually work to improve America so it at least looks like a proper First World country.
It's shameful that it should be still be considered a privilege of the wealthy to get a higher education (especially when we have so many positions going unfilled that require a higher education).

Higher education is not only for the wealthy. Many people go to college that are poor. Unless you think the poor cannot figure out how to get a college education? You miss the point that these people agreed to a loan just like I did when I bought my car, ethically and morally they are obligated to pay it back.

That hurts us all, and there isn't much better use of money than using it for an educated populace.

Paying for someone's school loan that they voluntarily took out and transferring that debt to someone that did not take out the loan is a better use of money than taking care of the homeless or medical care for people that cannot afford it etc.? I disagree.