Do You Support Forgiving $10,000 Of Student Loan Debt?

[Clizby Wampuscat]

The main concern about the debt is paying the interest, but if that's to pay off our own investors much of the money will stay within our own economy.

The higher the interest payments are the less we have to spend on things we may need to. Unless we deal with the debt the interest payments will be the largest outlay we have.

You simply do not understand Economics 101.

I am not sure you understand economics 301.

Plus, if you really were concerned about such debt, you should be VERY angry with the massive debt in the area of defense spending and business subsidies. Let us know when you do that, OK?

We can have high defense spending and have no debt. It is about priorities. One of the main functions of our government in the constitution is to protect the country from foreign enemies. Paying someone's college education is not.

 

[metis]

We can have high defense spending and have no debt. It is about priorities.

Exactly, and I choose to support defense spending and better access to education that can and does help our youth, as how many potential students couldn't attend post high school opportunities because they did not have the funds, and how many others are now burdened with large amounts of debt because they did want a better education? And a reminder that a more well-educated populace benefits employers and the country as a whole.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Higher education is not only for the wealthy. Many people go to college that are poor. Unless you think the poor cannot figure out how to get a college education? You miss the point that these people agreed to a loan just like I did when I bought my car, ethically and morally they are obligated to pay it back.

A higher education is more needed than a car to get ahead and make enough money to get things needed.

Paying for someone's school loan that they voluntarily took out and transferring that debt to someone that did not take out the loan is a better use of money than taking care of the homeless or medical care for people that cannot afford it etc.? I disagree.

It's a poor arguement to bring "do this when we have this?" The state, no surprise, does more than one thing at a time.
But something all three issues have in common is Reps and Conservatives love to blame personal responsibility and bad choices while wearing blinders--and keeping them closely and firmly attached--so they don't have to see or acknowledge the system is broken and many countries have fixed this issues and done what these Reps and Cons said can't be done.
"We do this not because it's easy but because it's hard." Apparently the American Spirit for achievement and striving to do better died with JFK.

 

[Watchmen]

So? We all benefit from an educated populace. Just think, if money weren't an issue we might even begin to make progress towards addressing the country's healthcare worker shortage. It'll take more than that, of course, but we'd have more people educated for it.
But, I'll let you in on something. I never intended to fully pay it back. Certain lines of work don't have to. And I found out, much to my great relief, the IRS isn't eyeing this as taxable income.

That’s right. Certain industries, usually those involving public service, have forgiveness programs. And you better bet you dot every i and cross every T or you won’t qualify. But that is separate and apart from the tradesmen I’m talking about. Bottom line: You’re getting a benefit that others will pay for when you were the one who contracted to pay the money back—not the tradesmen. We can have an educated populace without ripping off the tradesmen.

 

[Watchmen]

Do you get twitchy when tuition is raised part way through a course?
Or about the cost of tuition generally?

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/02/the...nd-earnings-for-young-workers-since-1980.html

Out of interest, what was your question re: travel outside of the US in relation to?

Yes. Tuition is ridiculous. The system is broken. That doesn’t mean I think tradesmen should have to payback other people’s loans.

The question re travel was about getting a better understanding of that poster’s mindset and experience. She acts like America is an uneducated ****hole, but those who travel know things aren’t that bad here. Our standard of living exceeds most everyone else’s in the world. (To our own detriment, perhaps.) And that poster confirmed she has no world travel experience.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

America is an uneducated ****hole, but those who travel know things aren’t that bad here. Our standard of living exceeds most everyone else’s in the world. (To our own detriment, perhaps.) And that poster confirmed she has no world travel experience.

I've talked to and known enough people from other places to know that yes, indeed, my quality of life would be better in many other places.
American living standards are expensive for what we get in return, it's plagued with gun violence, crap foods with toxic additives that are banned in other places, more affordable healthcare, more vacation time with less work time with adequate pay and benefits. Amd the education standards aren't great either.
You don't have to travel abroad to know these. You.could just have conversations with people telling you how much better off you'd have it in their country.

Bottom line: You’re getting a benefit that others will pay for when you were the one who contracted to pay the money back—not the tradesmen. We can have an educated populace without ripping off the tradesmen.

Bottom line I'm still paying it in taxes and the tradesmen be benefiting by being able to get healthcare.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Exactly, and I choose to support defense spending and better access to education that can and does help our youth, as how many potential students couldn't attend post high school opportunities because they did not have the funds, and how many others are now burdened with large amounts of debt because they did want a better education? And a reminder that a more well-educated populace benefits employers and the country as a whole.

I am for helping people that cannot afford college to get one. I am not for transferring debt from someone that voluntarily agreed to that debt to improve themselves to the taxpayer that did not agree to that debt.

 

[Watchmen]

Bottom line I'm still paying it in taxes and the tradesmen be benefiting by being able to get healthcare.

Head, meet sand.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Head, meet sand.

No, America just has too many selfish people who hate it when those less fortunate are helped. This is the group with their head in the sand so they cam pretend society isn't a collective effort.

 

[Watchmen]

No, America just has too many selfish people who hate it when those less fortunate are helped. This is the group with their head in the sand so they cam pretend society isn't a collective effort.

So backwards! The selfish ones are those who promised to pay back a loan but now have no problem shifting the burden to those who consciously choose not to get caught up in the student loan system. They knew better yet will pay the price.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So backwards! The selfish ones are those who promised to pay back a loan but now have no problem shifting the burden to those who consciously choose not to get caught up in the student loan system. They knew better yet will pay the price.

What price? Is it more than something from a book of ancient superstitions like another member who said I'll pay?
And it's not backwards. America's system is beyond broken, it needs fixed, and these crippling tuitions and debts are unbearable. They are intolerable. A four year degree can easily cost more than a house.
And so what of it? It's cheaper than putting me on disabilities, which would be my only option if I didn't take on that debt that I never had any intention of paying back because my knees are bad and my days of manual labor were quickly over. So, yeah. A system is going to punish me for being born with bad shins and parents who refused to let it be fixed, force me into taking a massive debt so I can keep working instead of going on disabilities, yeah, I'll grin and smile the whole way for every cent I don't pay back.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Yes. Tuition is ridiculous. The system is broken. That doesn’t mean I think tradesmen should have to payback other people’s loans.

True enough. I do think that fixing the system requires investment, and frankly you don't get to speak for all tradesmen on the issue and assume the high moral ground. We all pay taxes which we hope are used to improve society, and we all derive mixed benefits from the investment. One person uses roads more than others, one uses public education, etc.

I can imagine various hypothetical representations of real people who don't benefit from government spending in every aspect of government spending.

Having said that, this appears bandaidy to me. If you're investing this amount of money as a nation, it should be for long-term systemic change, and this ain't it. This is more a one off correction trying to offset the burgeoning cost of tuition. It does nothing to address the burgeoning cost of tuition.

You might find the first story on this link interesting. It pretty fairly aligns with my opinion, and isn't politically partisan. Completely understand if you're not going to invest the time in listening though.

The question re travel was about getting a better understanding of that poster’s mindset and experience. She acts like America is an uneducated ****hole, but those who travel know things aren’t that bad here. Our standard of living exceeds most everyone else’s in the world. (To our own detriment, perhaps.) And that poster confirmed she has no world travel experience.

Well...the standard of living thing is somewhat debatable. If you're just talking about the US vs every other country, sure...you'd rate very highly. But I don't think anyone generally is talking about the US education system vs India, Brazil, Russia or Nigeria. Rather they are talking about countries like Denmark, Switzerland, New Zealand, Austria, Australia, Finland and Sweden.

All those countries have flaws of their own, but they also rate very highly on measures around standard of living and general happiness. The sort of problems you guys are having aren't unique either...

A story from this week in my home state...
Victoria free uni: Daniel Andrews, Labor promise free degrees for nurses, midwives

Incidentally I think that targetted fee relief approach makes more sense for spending of public money than more carte blanche grants in general terms.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

A higher education is more needed than a car to get ahead and make enough money to get things needed.

It's a poor arguement to bring "do this when we have this?" The state, no surprise, does more than one thing at a time.
But something all three issues have in common is Reps and Conservatives love to blame personal responsibility and bad choices while wearing blinders--and keeping them closely and firmly attached--so they don't have to see or acknowledge the system is broken and many countries have fixed this issues and done what these Reps and Cons said can't be done.
"We do this not because it's easy but because it's hard." Apparently the American Spirit for achievement and striving to do better died with JFK.

In both of these responses you missed the point of my comment and did not address them. Why should someone that took out a loan voluntarily have the taxpayers pay back part of the loan? Where is the money going to come from to cover the debt relief?

We would do better to pay off everyone's medical debt. It is estimated to be $195B total. We could pay off all of the medical debt with less money than paying part of student loans taken out voluntarily. This would be a huge relief to people that did not choose to get sick.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why should someone that took out a loan voluntarily have the taxpayers pay back part of the loan? Where is the money going to come from to cover the debt relief?

I already said at least once because we all pay our taxes that go towards things we get no return on. But that's ok because we get and use other things that other people don't utilize as much or get at all. Such as someone who gets food stamps but walks everywhere. We are still both paying taxes to the same pots, and while I don't get food stamps I do drive.
And that those who received relief will still also be paying taxes on it like everybody else. I also erroneously assumed the IRS would snatch it up as taxable income with the prediction that many people, myself included, will be facing our biggest tax bill ever next year.

We would do better to pay off everyone's medical debt. It is estimated to be $195B total. We could pay off all of the medical debt with less money than paying part of student loans taken out voluntarily. This would be a huge relief to people that did not choose to get sick.

Why not build fewer bombs and machines of war and pay for both? Why not end tax loopholes, make the mega corporations actually have a tax bill and pay both?

 

[Watchmen]

What price? Is it more than something from a book of ancient superstitions like another member who said I'll pay?
And it's not backwards. America's system is beyond broken, it needs fixed, and these crippling tuitions and debts are unbearable. They are intolerable. A four year degree can easily cost more than a house.
And so what of it? It's cheaper than putting me on disabilities, which would be my only option if I didn't take on that debt that I never had any intention of paying back because my knees are bad and my days of manual labor were quickly over. So, yeah. A system is going to punish me for being born with bad shins and parents who refused to let it be fixed, force me into taking a massive debt so I can keep working instead of going on disabilities, yeah, I'll grin and smile the whole way for every cent I don't pay back.

You’re now burdening tradespeople who already have their own challenges, so don’t give me some sob story. Query: Did you or did you not sign a contract to repay your loan yourself? Or did the tradespeople co-sign?

 

[Watchmen]

In both of these responses you missed the point of my comment and did not address them. Why should someone that took out a loan voluntarily have the taxpayers pay back part of the loan? Where is the money going to come from to cover the debt relief?

We would do better to pay off everyone's medical debt. It is estimated to be $195B total. We could pay off all of the medical debt with less money than paying part of student loans taken out voluntarily. This would be a huge relief to people that did not choose to get sick.

We’re wasting our time with her. She gets the money and is too blind to see the immorality of it. Entitlement generation I’m guessing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You’re now burdening tradespeople who already have their own challenges, so don’t give me some sob story. Query: Did you or did you not sign a contract to repay your loan yourself? Or did the tradespeople co-sign?

Yes, I signed the paperwork, and I signed without intention of fully paying it back. And it's not a sob story. It's creating an advantage when life gave me few.

 

[metis]

I am not for transferring debt from someone that voluntarily agreed to that debt to improve themselves to the taxpayer that did not agree to that debt.

Covid created much of this problem and for a variety of reasons. It stands to common sense and decency, imo, to try and help our fellow Americans when a serious problem exists that those affected may not be able to adequately solve on their own, and this is what has happened to so many. If we had done what so many other industrialized countries have done to make post high school education more affordable, we wouldn't even be talking about this right now. My cousins in Sweden don't have this as an issue, for example.

The only serious question, imo, is whether it complies with the law overall, and that's not a gimme, thus it wouldn't surprise me if it failed a court challenge.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I already said at least once because we all pay our taxes that go towards things we get no return on. But that's ok because we get and use other things that other people don't utilize as much or get at all. Such as someone who gets food stamps but walks everywhere. We are still both paying taxes to the same pots, and while I don't get food stamps I do drive.
And that those who received relief will still also be paying taxes on it like everybody else. I also erroneously assumed the IRS would snatch it up as taxable income with the prediction that many people, myself included, will be facing our biggest tax bill ever next year.

My taxes going to things where I get no benefit is not my argument. It is people owe the money and it is unethical to have someone else pay their loans. Why expend $240B, $330B, $500B+ of our money on a problem that does not need to be solved. You are also agreeing to something that no one knows what the proicetag is. Lets all demand accountability and a maximum amount before we agree to it.

Why not build fewer bombs and machines of war and pay for both? Why not end tax loopholes, make the mega corporations actually have a tax bill and pay both?

Why should the taxpayers pay for the loans at all? It is just not that we can't pay for it, it is that it is unethical and unjust.

 

[Watchmen]

Yes, I signed the paperwork, and I signed without intention of fully paying it back. And it's not a sob story. It's creating an advantage when life gave me few.

So you committed fraud?