Do you support marriage rights for homosexuals?

[Gharib]

You missed the point. You believe that homosexuality is wrong, so gay people should not have the right to be gay.
9/10 believes Islam is wrong. Should he therefore believe that Muslims don't have the right to be Muslim? He doesn't. He believes that you should have the right to do something that he thinks is wrong. I would appreciate it if you would extend the same level of acceptance to me.

as i said, people already believed that muslims don't have a right to be muslims and we were killed for it.

 

[Gharib]

There are no ex-homosexuals. There are bisexuals, and celibate homosexuals.

says who?

So you and your religion cannot co-exist with other people's rights to do what they believe?

depends what you mean by 'other people's rights to do what they believe'

 

[Gharib]

Well, should they be able to? If they think that Islam is wrong, and bad, should people be able to prohibit you from practicing it?

they already are.

 

[Gharib]

Poor esalem I guess its better to argue with a religionist than a secularist lol

what do you mean? i didn't see the points you made against homosexuality as valid.

 

[Autodidact]

if under islamic rule, homosexual activity would not be allowed, as i mentioned before the few laws that would affect non-muslims. however under non-islamic rule islamic law to not permit homosexual activity cannot be aplied, thus i am against it. i have a right to my opinion and i do not support homosexual marriage.

secular states also teach of religious freedom, but when muslims want to do certain things we aren't allowed due to them being illegal according to their laws, same would happen to non-muslims under islamic rule.

It's true. When Muslims want to kill people for drawing the wrong cartoons, secular laws prohibit it. Also when they want to kill their daughters for dating the wrong boys, secular laws frown on that as well. That's why Muslims should not try to live in secular countries. I wonder why they immigrate to them by the millions?

 

[Autodidact]

according to whom is there nothing wrong with homosexuality?

Me. Did you want to try to argue that there is? Go for it. Explain why homosexuality is wrong.

 

[Gharib]

At least most secularits display the ability to reason as opposed to "my God says this so everyone else is wrong."

so it shouldn't be hard for you to prove me wrong then afterall, 'my God' is just an imagination right.

you can't prove me wrong yet you make a statement like that.

 

[Autodidact]

as i said, people already believed that muslims don't have a right to be muslims and we were killed for it.

You're still missing the point. The question is not has this happened, but should it happen? Is it right? Do people have the right to outlaw your religion because they think it's wrong? Should they have that right?

 

[Gharib]

I did not really see a good reason on why it is wrong... It just simply used different ways of expressing that it is wrong.

from an islamic standpoint, it explains quite well why it is wrong and forbiden.

 

[Autodidact]

says who?

Everybody who has studied the issue. Would you like to read the research?

depends what you mean by 'other people's rights to do what they believe'

In this thread, it means my right to create my family the way I believe is right.

 

[LuisDantas]

according to whom is there nothing wrong with homosexuality?

In all honesty, to anyone who bothers to research the matter. Or to simply acknowledge them as human beings.

 

[Autodidact]

as i said, people already believed that muslims don't have a right to be muslims and we were killed for it.

Were they right or wrong to do so?

 

[Gharib]

It's true. When Muslims want to kill people for drawing the wrong cartoons, secular laws prohibit it. Also when they want to kill their daughters for dating the wrong boys, secular laws frown on that as well. That's why Muslims should not try to live in secular countries. I wonder why they immigrate to them by the millions?

please provide evidence of islam teachings that condone such acts.

 

[Autodidact]

please provide evidence of islam teachings that condone such acts.

I didn't say Islam--I said Muslims. These are the kinds of things that Muslims are not allowed to do in secular countries. Do you disagree?

 

[Draka]

if under islamic rule, homosexual activity would not be allowed, as i mentioned before the few laws that would affect non-muslims. however under non-islamic rule islamic law to not permit homosexual activity cannot be aplied, thus i am against it. i have a right to my opinion and i do not support homosexual marriage.

secular states also teach of religious freedom, but when muslims want to do certain things we aren't allowed due to them being illegal according to their laws, same would happen to non-muslims under islamic rule.

You just said Islamic law applies only to Muslims. Now you change that. Ok, now if we take out of consideration certain Islamic theocratic countries and look at most other countries where the laws are secular and the population diverse, and the religions also diverse, then what is the rationale for opposing the availability of affording equal marriage rights to both heterosexual and homosexual couples? What is the LEGAL reasoning to oppose equality? As I, and many others, have attempted to point out, your beliefs are merely your beliefs and should not be used as a guideline to dictate what is right for the majority of people. Only for you and others who believe the same way as you. Quite simply...if you don't agree with same sex marriage...then simply don't marry a man. Who are you to say that John can't marry Mark or Vicki can't marry Stephanie? If Islamic law is only for Muslims, and you live in a country that is NOT an Islamic theocracy, then what Islam has to say about it shouldn't matter one lick to the actual laws of the country.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I didn't say Islam--I said Muslims. These are the kinds of things that Muslims are not allowed to do in secular countries. Do you disagree?

I agree 100%

 

[LuisDantas]

if under islamic rule, homosexual activity would not be allowed, as i mentioned before the few laws that would affect non-muslims. however under non-islamic rule islamic law to not permit homosexual activity cannot be aplied, thus i am against it. i have a right to my opinion and i do not support homosexual marriage.

secular states also teach of religious freedom, but when muslims want to do certain things we aren't allowed due to them being illegal according to their laws, same would happen to non-muslims under islamic rule.

Is that a fair comparison? I don't think so.

Homosexual activity is a very personal matter, and very important to those who happen to be homosexuals. How can one forbid it without causing great harm?

By comparison, the practice of Islam has only been forbidden in the most dictatorial and rare of situations. To forbid public use of Burkas and the contruction of Mosques in certain specific places may perhaps be wrong, but it falls real short of actually banning Muslim religious practice.

 

[Gharib]

Me. Did you want to try to argue that there is? Go for it. Explain why homosexuality is wrong.

exactly what i expected. in islam homosexual activity is considered a sin/crime, rape too is considered a sin/crime. so if i were to ask according to whom is there nothing wrong with rape, the rapist will say Me. if i ask the same question to a homosexual, his answer too will be Me, because they both endulge in their respective activities thus they consider it OK, otherwise they would not endulge in them. does that make sense?

NOTE: DON'T MAKE THIS ABOUT COMPARING HOMOSEXUALITY TO RAPE, I'M NOT MAKING SUCH A COMPARISON. BUT INSTEAD ANSWER MY EXAMPLE.

 

[Gharib]

You're still missing the point. The question is not has this happened, but should it happen? Is it right? Do people have the right to outlaw your religion because they think it's wrong? Should they have that right?

it did happen and it is happening.

 

[Autodidact]

exactly what i expected. in islam homosexual activity is considered a sin/crime, rape too is considered a sin/crime. so if i were to ask according to whom is there nothing wrong with rape, the rapist will say Me. if i ask the same question to a homosexual, his answer too will be Me, because they both endulge in their respective activities thus they consider it OK, otherwise they would not endulge in them. does that make sense?

NOTE: DON'T MAKE THIS ABOUT COMPARING HOMOSEXUALITY TO RAPE, I'M NOT MAKING SUCH A COMPARISON. BUT INSTEAD ANSWER MY EXAMPLE.

Yes, you are.

Rape harms someone. It violates their rights. It is wrong, not because God prohibits it, but because it inflicts suffering.

Homosexuality is right because it increases love, and harms none. Rape is wrong because it promulgates hatred, and causes harm.

Anyone whose moral sense was not retarded by religious training would have no trouble seeing that.