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Do you support marriage rights for homosexuals?

Do you support marriage rights for homosexuals?

  • Yes

    Votes: 99 83.2%
  • No

    Votes: 12 10.1%
  • I don't know/Other

    Votes: 8 6.7%

  • Total voters
    119

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
it did happen and it is happening.

Fascinating. Let's accept that. Now, is it right, or wrong?

[Did you ever notice that when debating religionists, you're often forced to ask them the same question 4 or 5 times? It's as thought they lose common courtesy when defending their beliefs.]
 

MissAlice

Well-Known Member
Do you support marriage rights for homosexuals? I do!

Yes. Homosexuality isn't a choice it just happens to be the opposite of the heterosexual attraction. Sex and love between two consenting adults should not be a crime much less a right that is treated as shameful. I will never understand people who have a problem with it. Nobody chooses who they fall in love with much less the genders they were born into.
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
Yes, you are.

Rape harms someone. It violates their rights. It is wrong, not because God prohibits it, but because it inflicts suffering.

Homosexuality is right because it increases love, and harms none. Rape is wrong because it promulgates hatred, and causes harm.

Anyone whose moral sense was not retarded by religious training would have no trouble seeing that.

thanks for not anwering my example.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
i disagree, the islamic state would not allow such crimes, nor do islamic laws.

I didn't say anything about imaginary Islamic states or hypothetical Islamic laws that exist only in your mind. What I said is, in secular countries, when Muslim men kill their sisters and daughters, the law intervenes, and prohibits them from doing that. Similarly, when they don't like a cartoon, secular law prevents them from killing the cartoonist, much as they would like to. Is there anything I said about Muslims or secular law that you disagree with?
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
thanks for not anwering my example.

Let me try again, because you seem to be slow in grasping some moral ideas. A rapist may (I doubt it) assert that rape is right. For example, Muhammad says it is right for him to have sex with a little girl. He is mistaken, because doing so harms the child. A gay person says that there is nothing wrong with loving someone of the same sex, because love is good, and does not cause harm. Each one claims that something is right, in their own view. One is wrong (sex with children) and one is not (a committed union between two freely consenting adults.) Now do you get it?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
exactly what i expected. in islam homosexual activity is considered a sin/crime, rape too is considered a sin/crime. so if i were to ask according to whom is there nothing wrong with rape, the rapist will say Me. if i ask the same question to a homosexual, his answer too will be Me, because they both endulge in their respective activities thus they consider it OK, otherwise they would not endulge in them. does that make sense?

In all honesty, no, it doesn't really make sense. If anything, it shows how it is bizarre to call homosexuality wrong.

Homosexuality is nothing more, nothing less than the existence of attraction between people of the same gender. It can certainly cause social disconfort, but at its core it is little different from heterosexuality, and just as legitimate as it.

Rape is something else entirely. A rapist may well attempt to claim that he did nothing wrong - but, in all likelihood, he will be lying. He may like the feelings of power that he obtains by raping, but with few exceptions he knows full well that he is hurting the people he rapes.

Homosexual couples, by contrast, are often very dedicated and caring to each other, and establish healthy relationships. There is certainly little to even hint that same sex marriages are in any sense less healthy, at any level, than heterosexual marriages.

For a believer in the God of Abraham to oppose same sex marriage is, in my sincere opinion, both a terrible lack of human compassion towards fellow people and a major religious failure, for if God exists and sees fit to make people homosexual, then it won't do for believers to decide that God blundered while at that. For all anyone really knows, God loves homosexuals as much as anyone else, and expects the Faithful to realize that it is wrong to let scripture be used to justify the rejection of actual people that can't help but be what they are.

For all anyone may really know, maybe God hoped for Abraham to realize that respecting Him and blindly following His commands regardless of the situation are two very different things.

Do you think God would have loved Abraham less if he refused outright to kill his own son? I don't. A good human father won't think less of his son for refusing an order to kill his own son. Would God be any less wise or less compassionate than a human being?

Similarly, when I try to think like a Believer, I just can't imagine that God would like his people to oppose homosexual love. It would be lack of faith in his designs, for it was Him who allowed them to be homosexuals after all. It would be a failure to show proper fraternity and compassion, for after all homosexuals are people just like anyone else. And it would be a lack of moral courage, for the People of the Book shouldn't be afraid of learning to love and accept people even if they believe them to be sinners.
 
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Gharib

I want Khilafah back
Let me try again, because you seem to be slow in grasping some moral ideas. A rapist may (I doubt it) assert that rape is right. For example, Muhammad says it is right for him to have sex with a little girl. He is mistaken, because doing so harms the child. A gay person says that there is nothing wrong with loving someone of the same sex, because love is good, and does not cause harm. Each one claims that something is right, in their own view. One is wrong (sex with children) and one is not (a committed union between two freely consenting adults.) Now do you get it?

1. thanks for not answering my example once again
2. there is nothing wrong with marrying someone of a differnet age who also agrees to that marriage
3. thanks for not answering my example once again.
 

Comet

Harvey Wallbanger
exactly what i expected. in islam homosexual activity is considered a sin/crime, rape too is considered a sin/crime. so if i were to ask according to whom is there nothing wrong with rape, the rapist will say Me. if i ask the same question to a homosexual, his answer too will be Me, because they both endulge in their respective activities thus they consider it OK, otherwise they would not endulge in them. does that make sense?

NOTE: DON'T MAKE THIS ABOUT COMPARING HOMOSEXUALITY TO RAPE, I'M NOT MAKING SUCH A COMPARISON. BUT INSTEAD ANSWER MY EXAMPLE.

In a rape, it is one person doing harm to another by their own will and against the will of another. In a homosexual act, it is two people sharing the act with both wills in line.

There is a huge difference there. I know many Christians who do not condone such acts either, like Islam. Yet, if two people love each other and condone the acts they share as one with no HARM unto others... what is the problem?

Again, I am an American and believe in the freedom of religion. As religions go, many have issue with homosexual/lesbian acts/way of life. Yet, for me: they are not hurting me, my beliefs, way of life, etc... I see no problem with two who wish to marry.

Should I not be allowed to marry again? I married a manic depressive who wound up cheating on me. My future wife married a man who became a meth addict! Should we not be allowed to be married to each other now for some believe via THEIR religion that we can only have but one marriage?

Should two who love each other not be allowed to profess that love and commitment unto all before GOD? Just because others we have known took that commitment lightly, does not mean we do....

Should two of the same sex not be allowed to do so? To profess their love and commitment unto all before GOD? I thought GOD was a loving and forgiving GOD... perhaps I am wrong to assume all believe that.... Is GOD not for love?

Either way, I shall say again: THE CONSTITUTION OF THE COUNTRY IN WHICH I LIVE SAYS THAT ALL ARE EQUAL AND HAVE THE RIGHT TO PURSUE HAPPINESS!

Who am I to tell "them" that it is wrong to do so? It would go against all I believe and live by.....
 

Comet

Harvey Wallbanger
1. thanks for not answering my example once again
2. there is nothing wrong with marrying someone of a differnet age who also agrees to that marriage
3. thanks for not answering my example once again.

#2: there is nothing wrong with marrying someone of the same sex who also agrees...
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
as i said, people already believed that muslims don't have a right to be muslims and we were killed for it.
But that didn't really answer the question. I didn't ask whether it happened; I asked whether it was right for it to happen.

Should everyone get to impose their views on others, or should only you get this privilege?

(BTW - for the record, I'm not interested in killing anyone)
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
In a rape, it is one person doing harm to another by their own will and against the will of another. In a homosexual act, it is two people sharing the act with both wills in line.

There is a huge difference there. I know many Christians who do not condone such acts either, like Islam. Yet, if two people love each other and condone the acts they share as one with no HARM unto others... what is the problem?

Again, I am an American and believe in the freedom of religion. As religions go, many have issue with homosexual/lesbian acts/way of life. Yet, for me: they are not hurting me, my beliefs, way of life, etc... I see no problem with two who wish to marry.

Should I not be allowed to marry again? I married a manic depressive who wound up cheating on me. My future wife married a man who became a meth addict! Should we not be allowed to be married to each other now for some believe via THEIR religion that we can only have but one marriage?

Should two who love each other not be allowed to profess that love and commitment unto all before GOD? Just because others we have known took that commitment lightly, does not mean we do....

Should two of the same sex not be allowed to do so? To profess their love and commitment unto all before GOD? I thought GOD was a loving and forgiving GOD... perhaps I am wrong to assume all believe that.... Is GOD not for love?

Either way, I shall say again: THE CONSTITUTION OF THE COUNTRY IN WHICH I LIVE SAYS THAT ALL ARE EQUAL AND HAVE THE RIGHT TO PURSUE HAPPINESS!

Who am I to tell "them" that it is wrong to do so? It would go against all I believe and live by.....

as i said many times before and am still doing so, i am not comparing rape to homosexuality. there is no need to explain to me the difference between homosexuality and rape.

unfortunately though, it is many of you in this thread who don't seem to quite understand my examples even though i have stated in CAPITALS that i'm not comparing rape to homosexuality.

the reason why i mentioned rape was to show you guys an example of something that is illegal according to you so that you can see my stance on why i am against what you are all saying about homosexuality. i could just as well change the word rape to theft, murder etc etc, and for Gods sake it is not a comparison
 

Gunfingers

Happiness Incarnate
as i said many times before and am still doing so, i am not comparing rape to homosexuality. there is no need to explain to me the difference between homosexuality and rape.

unfortunately though, it is many of you in this thread who don't seem to quite understand my examples even though i have stated in CAPITALS that i'm not comparing rape to homosexuality.

the reason why i mentioned rape was to show you guys an example of something that is illegal according to you so that you can see my stance on why i am against what you are all saying about homosexuality. i could just as well change the word rape to theft, murder etc etc, and for Gods sake it is not a comparison
But it is a comparison. Not in a "this is wrong so this must be wrong also" sense, but in a "I'm allowed to say this is criminal so I should be allowed to say this other thing is criminal too".
But in any society that respects individual rights you can't. Rape, murder, and theft are all activities that infringe on the rights of another and must therefore be criminal. Anything that does not meet those criteria should not be criminal. Consensual gay sex, and even consensual gay marriage, do not meet that criteria and therefore must be legal.
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
But it is a comparison. Not in a "this is wrong so this must be wrong also" sense, but in a "I'm allowed to say this is criminal so I should be allowed to say this other thing is criminal too".
But in any society that respects individual rights you can't. Rape, murder, and theft are all activities that infringe on the rights of another and must therefore be criminal. Anything that does not meet those criteria should not be criminal. Consensual gay sex, and even consensual gay marriage, do not meet that criteria and therefore must be legal.

that is only for non-islamic perspectives, i get that. in an islamic perspective, something that is private between 2 consenting people has litmits too. a man and a wife although married and both consent to having sex, they are not allowed to have anal sex because of islamic law. do you sort of see my point. i made a post about how islam views homosexuality and why it considers it illegal a few pages earlier.
 

Gunfingers

Happiness Incarnate
that is only for non-islamic perspectives, i get that. in an islamic perspective, something that is private between 2 consenting people has litmits too. a man and a wife although married and both consent to having sex, they are not allowed to have anal sex because of islamic law. do you sort of see my point. i made a post about how islam views homosexuality and why it considers it illegal a few pages earlier.
I have no problem with you considering it wrong. You can call it a sin all you want. Just quit trying to stop people from doing it. God will exercise his own will, we humans need to just respect each other and let people engage in any non-harmful activity they wish.
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
Does this include children marrying an adult who is 48 years older than the child?

why is it that non-muslims view Muhameds salallahu alayhi we salam marriage to Aisha radiallahu anhu as negative, when non-muslims themself engage in this. have you not heard the term 'cradle snatcher'. but of course it's because he was muslim.

moreover, that is a topic for another thread, it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
 
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Gharib

I want Khilafah back
I have no problem with you considering it wrong. You can call it a sin all you want. Just quit trying to stop people from doing it. God will exercise his own will, we humans need to just respect each other and let people engage in any non-harmful activity they wish.

i'm not stopping anyone i'm just giving my perspective, the thread asks if i support gay marriage and i say no.
 
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