Do you support marriage rights for homosexuals?

[Autodidact]

do you have any evidence in support of homosexuality existing ever since you climbed out of trees?

muslims do not believe in 'climbing out of trees'. where as with homosexuality islamic belief tells that the first homosexual people were those of Prophet Lot alayhi salam, and now the people of Prophet Muhamed salallahu alayhi we salam.

if being straight and homosexual is not a choice, then what determines you to be heterosexual or homosexual?

Well, every society that has ever existed records it, and it is observed in most mammal species, so it seems fairly ubiquitous.

Could you chose to be homosexual?

 

[Autodidact]

the link you provided contains no evidence in support of what you claimed, to which i made a question to you.

i do not dissagree with you about homosexuality in the egyptians and romans etc, i think Prophet Lot alayhi salam lived before the egyptians and romans and greeks etc.

i'll ask you a question, if your child has a baby and rather than teach that baby that heterosexuality is right, you teach it that homosexuality is right, do you believe that that child will grow up homosexual?

First, there are not two choices about what is right. Each is equally "right," or each is right for the person who is capable of forming that kind of bond. Second, no, there is no correlation between what you teach your child and whether they grow up to be gay. This has been well-studied. If a child is going to be gay, and you teach them that is wrong, the only thing it does is make them miserable.
Third, since there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, there is also nothing wrong with growing up to be homosexual.

 

[Autodidact]

ok thanks for the explanation, so how would a bridal party work in a gay marriage? by gay i mean a male couple? and vice versa for a groom party (if that exists) in a lesbian marriage?

However the people getting married want it to work.

 

[Autodidact]

well if you viewed homosexuality as a sin you wouldn't teach a child that it is ok, and vice versa. but i'm just saying that it is a common thing for a child to be of heterosexual behaviour even those that latter end up homosexual. so if for example it was the other way around, would a child who in, lets say, a normal situation were to grow up heterosexual end up growing homosexual if you were to teach him/her that heterosexuality is wrong? i'm just asking a question, i don't know if this stuff happens, it never did with me or anyone i know, i'm just asking.

No, affectional preference is not taught.

 

[Autodidact]

you won't be the first person to hate islam and muslims, maybe you haven't read on islamic history, muslims were openly killed for saying they were muslims. if you decide to hate us and want to kill us then by all means go ahead if you have such power, your government is already doing that (you are american right). since this is another issue, maybe we should not continue with this as it has nothing to do with the thread.

You missed the point. You believe that homosexuality is wrong, so gay people should not have the right to be gay.
9/10 believes Islam is wrong. Should he therefore believe that Muslims don't have the right to be Muslim? He doesn't. He believes that you should have the right to do something that he thinks is wrong. I would appreciate it if you would extend the same level of acceptance to me.

 

[Autodidact]

so where do ex-homosexuals stand?

There are no ex-homosexuals. There are bisexuals, and celibate homosexuals.

and regarding the last bit of your post, if they are going to be there regardless then still my answer is no. islam says prohibit what is sinful and encourage what is beneficial, since homosexuality itself is considered a sin then how can i say yes to such a marriage, i would be contradicting the Quran.

So you and your religion cannot co-exist with other people's rights to do what they believe?

 

[Autodidact]

sorry but i don't see that as a good idea. you see i have my own perspective on it based on islamic teachings, if i had an islamic perspective based on islamic teachings then i would present that.

lets just say this, in islam all evil (which is sin) stems from the devil so from an islamic perspective homosexuality stems from the interference of the devil, just as theft and lying stems from him too. thats all i will say.

Just in case anyone here thought Islam might make any sense as a source of moral wisdom, eselam is here to clarify that for you.

 

[Autodidact]

islam allows others to have their say, but muslims view islam as the only correct religion of god, wich started with Adam and finished with Muhamed as prophets and in between them another 123998 were sent. if one particular religion has teachings that do not contradcit islam, some scholars say it could be the message of one of the previous prophets, we believe that all nations (people) were sent a prophet. but islamic law is that we must accept all other prophets and their messages but we must live according to the laws of god that were sent to the last and universal prophet.



well if my reasoning isn't enough to ban same sex marriage, then why is non-muslim reasoning enough to ban islam? around the world, muslims aren't allowed to erect minarets, they aren't allowed to dress in the way that they want, etc etc. why is it that my reasoning is not sufficent but that of those who are against islam is? that there is the inconsistency, it would be unfair to muslims to not ban same sex marriage when non-muslims are able to ban muslims from practising islam.

Well, should they be able to? If they think that Islam is wrong, and bad, should people be able to prohibit you from practicing it?

 

[Vendetta]

Poor esalem I guess its better to argue with a religionist than a secularist lol

 

[darkendless]

Poor esalem I guess its better to argue with a religionist than a secularist lol

At least most secularits display the ability to reason as opposed to "my God says this so everyone else is wrong."

 

[Revoltingest]

At least most secularits display the ability to reason as opposed to "my God says this so everyone else is wrong."

Most secularists don't reason either.

 

[Vendetta]

At least most secularits display the ability to reason as opposed to "my God says this so everyone else is wrong."

That is "typically" true but there are some rationalist among the religious folk. We must understand that traditional Islam, Judaism, and Christianity will never accept homosexual marriage and when I mean accept, I am referring to the incorporation of marital customs within religious customs. Nor will all be unanimously be in agreement with acceptin homosexuality period.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

this page explains it in great detail. you will see the full islamic perspective on homosexuality, it mentions some points that i didn't know about too.

Islam and Homosexuality

I did not really see a good reason on why it is wrong... It just simply used different ways of expressing that it is wrong.

 

[Gharib]

Perhaps I did.
Let me go back and see...[

and you still didn't get it.

So, care to explain how those verses put you into a position to speak for all of Islam?

as i said before the verse do not put me in a position to speak for all of islam, they speak for themself.

Or perhaps even how they connect with same sex marriage?

your question had nothing to do with same sex marriage, thus my answer doesn't either.

Or perhaps how those verses help answer any question asked in this thread?

you said i should not speak for all muslims about the non-belief in 'climbing out of trees' so i said you are right there could be muslims who accept the theory, so i posted verses from the quran that backed up my cliam about islam not believing in the 'climbing out of trees' thing.

Perhaps it would be an idea to explain just what question exactly you think those verses answer?

maybe the above is sufficent

 

[Gharib]

Eselam, I'm wondering, do you really believe that all people in the world, in different countries, in different cultures, should be made to live by the rules of one particular religion? Your religion? Do you honestly think it is alright to force others who do not agree with your particular mythology to live by its rules and requirements? Have you no concept of being able to distinguish secular from religious when it comes to laws and rights? Do you not have the internal ability to realize that not everyone believes the same things religiously so equal and fair SECULAR laws must be in place? I have my own beliefs as well, but I realize that not everyone believes the same way I do, and that is ok. I also don't expect my personal religious beliefs to legally affect others. Can you not realize and do the same?

islamic law applies only to muslims, with the exception of a few minor laws that affect non-muslims, such as the law of muslims banning alcohol which will ultimately affect non-muslim due to no alcohol being produced or sold.

 

[Gharib]

Its sad but its because people don't think before they make a committment. These days people comitt earlier and earlier without considering the consequences of their actions.

unfotunately, i think it's all due to money. money is advertised in a way that it has become the most important thing in life.

 

[Draka]

islamic law applies only to muslims, with the exception of a few minor laws that affect non-muslims, such as the law of muslims banning alcohol which will ultimately affect non-muslim due to no alcohol being produced or sold.

Well then, if Islamic law is against same sex marriage then couldn't you just leave it that Muslims wouldn't get into same sex marriages? If Islamic law applies only to Muslims then why not support secular law that gives marriage equality to same sex couples? You have your own choice as to whether or not you will marry a man or a woman and your choice is dictated by your beliefs and your feelings. Why should you dictate anyone else's beliefs and feelings if Islamic law is only for Muslims? Sounds kind of hypocritical to say that and yet oppose same sex marriage for say, Pagans or atheists, or Buddhists and so on. You do not believe in same sex marriage as per your religious mandates and that's fine. But why not allow those who do not share your faith to do something which, in no way, affects anyone negatively and is already a right which you get to have and benefit from?

 

[Gentoo]

Do you support marriage rights for homosexuals? I do!

Absolutely.

 

[Gharib]

Well then, if Islamic law is against same sex marriage then couldn't you just leave it that Muslims wouldn't get into same sex marriages? If Islamic law applies only to Muslims then why not support secular law that gives marriage equality to same sex couples? You have your own choice as to whether or not you will marry a man or a woman and your choice is dictated by your beliefs and your feelings. Why should you dictate anyone else's beliefs and feelings if Islamic law is only for Muslims? Sounds kind of hypocritical to say that and yet oppose same sex marriage for say, Pagans or atheists, or Buddhists and so on. You do not believe in same sex marriage as per your religious mandates and that's fine. But why not allow those who do not share your faith to do something which, in no way, affects anyone negatively and is already a right which you get to have and benefit from?

if under islamic rule, homosexual activity would not be allowed, as i mentioned before the few laws that would affect non-muslims. however under non-islamic rule islamic law to not permit homosexual activity cannot be aplied, thus i am against it. i have a right to my opinion and i do not support homosexual marriage.

secular states also teach of religious freedom, but when muslims want to do certain things we aren't allowed due to them being illegal according to their laws, same would happen to non-muslims under islamic rule.

 

[Gharib]

Third, since there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, there is also nothing wrong with growing up to be homosexual.

according to whom is there nothing wrong with homosexuality?