Do you think/believe that your body was designed/created?

[Godobeyer]

Calling someone a liar is quite insulting in English. You may not be aware.

God has hands? I was not aware. A video is an artwork that represents things, it's not like this is how things look.

Ah, I thought you are agree with it.
because you just take it as reference of evolve !

Fair enough. We'll have to chalk it up to the language barrier. I certainly haven't been attempting to put words in your mouth.

Indeed you are, when I said my point about creation as "imagination", you asked me "to stop include you" ,because "evolution".

 

[Kirran]

@Shad - dude, you can try rewording to some extent but at the end of the day he sometimes just won't understand your point. If you speak French (or Arabic, for that matter!) you can try in that, I think his French skills are greater than his English. The meanings of terms like 'design' and 'form' do seem to have subtleties that I, as a native English speaker, didn't appreciate the difficulty of.

Ah, I thought you are agree with it.
because you just take it as reference of evolve !

Reference of evolve? What does that mean? I do agree with the general thrust, as I said.

Indeed you are, when I said my point about creation as "imagination", you asked me "to stop include you" ,because "evolution".

I'm not sure what you're referring to here, this sentence doesn't quite make sense. Could you reword it?

 

[Shad]

All world know it's about rain,and water sources,if you have other opinion tell us.

Most of the world knows that rain is not a designer. When will you?

I made an exemple.

One that failed completely as you do not know what design means

That's denial, of facts, Geologists how how mountains formed.

I never denied how mountains are formed. I denied the formation of mountains was designed. Again you do not know what design means

design or form or creat. that's what I mean.

Irrelevant backpedaling. Forming is not the same as designed. Water falling into a hole to form a puddle is not the same as a design.

 

[Shad]

@Shad - dude, you can try rewording to some extent but at the end of the day he sometimes just won't understand your point. If you speak French (or Arabic, for that matter!) you can try in that, I think his French skills are greater than his English. The meanings of terms like 'design' and 'form' do seem to have subtleties that I, as a native English speaker, didn't appreciate the difficulty of.

Or GO could make the effort since it is his argument, not mine. It is his language barrier, not mine. It his misunderstanding of a word, not mine. The obligation is on GO not me.

There is no subtleties between form and design. There is blatantly obvious difference as one is not planned and the other is. I do not think GO even attempts to understand the difference nor inform himself on the difference.

 

[Kirran]

Or GO could make the effort since it is his argument, not mine. It is his language barrier, not mine. It his misunderstanding of a word, not mine. The obligation is on GO not me.

There is no subtleties between form and design. There is blatantly obvious difference as one is not planned and the other is. I do not think GO even attempts to understand the difference nor inform himself on the difference.

Well he doesn't speak English fluently. And he has very firm ideas about things and isn't particularly open to others, as can be expected given his background in a society where religious and philosophical ideas are pretty fiercely homogenous. Basically we just need to be aware that we're not gonna be able to communicate with him to the extent we can with most people on these forums, for these two reasons. His continued enthusiasm and persistence deserves only our admiration, of course, and I am sure his English will improve given time.

 

[McBell]

Well he doesn't speak English fluently. And he has very firm ideas about things and isn't particularly open to others, as can be expected given his background in a society where religious and philosophical ideas are pretty fiercely homogenous. Basically we just need to be aware that we're not gonna be able to communicate with him to the extent we can with most people on these forums, for these two reasons. His continued enthusiasm and persistence deserves only our admiration, of course, and I am sure his English will improve given time.

His English has noticabley improved since he joined RF.
And I agree, the language barrier is somewhat an issue.

However, attempting to discuss algebra with someone who has yet to grasp addition and subtraction is nothing more than a test of patience when they refuse to learn anything other than what they think they currently know.

 

[Kirran]

His English has noticabley improved since he joined RF.
And I agree, the language barrier is somewhat an issue.

However, attempting to discuss algebra with someone who has yet to grasp addition and subtraction is nothing more than a test of patience when they refuse to learn anything other than what they think they currently know.

I'm glad to hear it! RF's a great resource for it.

On your second point, yes, that's true. It can take a little longer to realise that that's what's going on what with the language issue, but you're right. Becomes a bit of a head-meets-brick-wall situation.

 

[McBell]

I'm glad to hear it! RF's a great resource for it.

On your second point, yes, that's true. It can take a little longer to realise that that's what's going on what with the language issue, but you're right. Becomes a bit of a head-meets-brick-wall situation.

Now don't get me wrong.
I do not for a second believe he is stupid or mental, etc.
I suspect it is stubbornness.

 

[Shad]

Well he doesn't speak English fluently. And he has very firm ideas about things and isn't particularly open to others, as can be expected given his background in a society where religious and philosophical ideas are pretty fiercely homogenous. Basically we just need to be aware that we're not gonna be able to communicate with him to the extent we can with most people on these forums, for these two reasons. His continued enthusiasm and persistence deserves only our admiration, of course, and I am sure his English will improve given time.

I am more than aware of his narrow view points and these are still his problem not mine. I can not force him to change his view points, educate himself nor force him to develop his English. I am not his teacher nor have any interest in being his teacher. The buck has to stop somewhere. I have no interest in catering to his disadvantage when he is not willing to take the first few steps himself.

 

[Shad]

Now don't get me wrong.
I do not for a second believe he is stupid or ignorant, etc.
I suspect it is stubbornness.

Indoctrination more like it.

 

[Godobeyer]

Most of the world knows that rain is not a designer. When will you?



One that failed completely as you do not know what design means



I never denied how mountains are formed. I denied the formation of mountains was designed. Again you do not know what design means



Irrelevant backpedaling. Forming is not the same as designed. Water falling into a hole to form a puddle is not the same as a design.

In that posts of discussion, we were talking about "forming", not "design", when I said to you prove me wrong.

anyway I meant forming.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Manichaeism originated in Persia, during the early Sassanid empire (3rd century ce).

It is a Persian version of Gnosticism.

Thanks for the brief explain, though I should say that I am familiar with Manichaeism - I find it a very interesting religion indeed, and there are some commonalities with my own system of thought. I am aware that there are some people who call themselves, or might be called, Neo-Manichaeans (e.g. Manichaean Church), and I am aware that it influenced the development of the so-called Chinese Salvationist religions, and of the Cao'an temple in Jinjiang, Fujian, but I didn't think there were practicing Manichaeans still today outside of these contexts, hence my question to Kirran.

 

[Godobeyer]

Now don't get me wrong.
I do not for a second believe he is stupid or mental, etc.
I suspect it is stubbornness.

Don't get me wrong , you are professor in stubbornness, it's rarelly someone defeat you

 

[Shad]

In that posts of discussion, we were talking about "forming", not "design", when I said to you prove me wrong.

Backpedaling, nothing more. You point makes no sense when replacing designed with formed as I never said things are not formed nor does formed mean "made by a plan". You are still treating formed as synonymous with designed. Again the language barrier you refuse to correct.

anyway I meant forming.

Which is meaningless to your design argument as forming does not mean designed. You are treating form as a transitive verb when in context the noun form is the proper use.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

There is some discussion as to whether Wales qualifies as a country or not

Thanks. Manichaean from a family of Manichaeans (perhaps going back a couple generations or more), or a more recent joiner of the Manichaean faith (not knocking this at all, I was hardly raised with the beliefs I hold!)? See my above response to gnostic for why I am interested in this question (I thought the faith had essentially died out, even if it has a new, more recent manifestation in the Manichaean Church).

Edit to add missing question mark.

 

[Godobeyer]

@Shad
Reference of evolve? What does that mean? I do agree with the general thrust, as I said.

Idea of Creation in that video.
It's represent God put animals one by one.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here, this sentence doesn't quite make sense. Could you reword it?

As brief:

When I said theists had more imagination about origin of life/creation than atheists.

You said "Please not include me,I don't....etc "

I said : "Why you said this,I was talking about imagination of creation"

You said "you deny evolution"

I said:"I am said imagination of creation"

you said"I am not sure ....." last post

 

[Godobeyer]

Backpedaling, nothing more. You point makes no sense when replacing designed with formed as I never said things are not formed nor does formed mean "made by a plan". You are still treating formed as synonymous with designed. Again the language barrier you refuse to correct.



Which is meaningless to your design argument as forming does not mean designed.

@Kirran discuss design issue, and we deal with form and creat more.

Please notice :
#517Shad, Today at 1:14 PM I said "form" you said design.

#520Godobeyer, Today at 1:24 PM I said "formed", you said design.

#483Shad, Yesterday at 11:12 AM
I said : "No I said everything formed/designed by something else."
You said : which is false.

I reply to @Kelly of the Phoenix
#484Godobeyer, Yesterday at 12:27 PM I said "Rain formed"


All this page I said formed (not designed) to refer rainbow,and cloud,Pebbles...
http://www.religiousforums.com/thre...your-body-was-designed-created.192354/page-25

 

[Kirran]

Thanks. Manichaean from a family of Manichaeans (perhaps going back a couple generations or more), or a more recent joiner of the Manichaean faith (not knocking this at all, I was hardly raised with the beliefs I hold!)? See my above response to gnostic for why I am interested in this question (I thought the faith had essentially died out, even if it has a new, more recent manifestation in the Manichaean Church).

Edit to add missing question mark.

An interesting subject, no doubt. He was an Iranian who had found his way to being a Manichaean. He said that he was Manichaean before he'd heard of Manichaeanism, and thinks he might have carried it with him from a previous life.

Idea of Creation in that video.
It's represent God put animals one by one.

Yeah, that's just artwork. Listen to the words of the video. And anyway, it's only one Hindu view, Hindus are massively varied.

As brief:

When I said theists had more imagination about origin of life/creation than atheists.

You said "Please not include me,I don't....etc "

I said : "Why you said this,I was talking about imagination of creation"

You said "you deny evolution"

I said:"I am said imagination of creation"

you said"I am not sure ....." last post

Now, this wasn't very comprehensible. I think maybe we're stuck on the meaning on the word imagination. In this context, the word imagination basically means making things up, inventing ideas, like a child playing pretend. I don't think this is what you mean by it, but I don't know what it is you actually mean.

 

[Shad]

Please notice :
#517Shad, Today at 1:14 PM I said "form" you said design.

#520Godobeyer, Today at 1:24 PM I said "formed", you said design.

#483Shad, Yesterday at 11:12 AM
I said : "No I said everything formed/designed by something else."
You said : which is false.

I reply to @Kelly of the Phoenix
#484Godobeyer, Yesterday at 12:27 PM I said "Rain formed"

When ones uses a forward slash between words like this it is due to these words being synonymous. It does not mean "or". Again you treat "form" as a verb as you do not understand English that well. This is your problem.

It really doesn't matter what you have said since you do not understand the words you are using. For example a streetcar and tram are the same thing, hence streetcar/tram. That why people use "/"...

Form and design are not the same thing. The verb form of form is linked with design as there is a person doing it. Rain is not a person thus the noun is the proper use. You still haven't figured this out as your grasp of English is very poor.

Again things can form without a designer, rivers were an example.

 

[Godobeyer]

When ones uses a forward slash between words like this it is due to these words being synonymous. It does not mean "or". Again you treat "form" as a verb as you do not understand English that well. This is your problem.

It really doesn't matter what you have said since you do not understand the words you are using. For example a streetcar and tram are the same thing, hence streetcar/tram. That why people use "/"...

Let me explain :Formed/designed.

1-Formed by nature forces.
2-designed by God/human/other creature.