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Do you trust God?

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
So this really isn't a debate. Its more of "if you believe in a god, do you also trust said god"
Yes, that is implicit in the OP, since you cannot trust a God you do not believe exists...
It was not really intended to be a debate but it could be because not all believers necessarily trust God.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Is a belief in a god really different than a love for someone?
Both can be shown by actions, words, thoughts, etc.
How do you, if you do, accept one over the other?
I reject both - love for God (which is an imaginary entity) and love for all people (there are those who are most devious and heinous). I am not a 'love addict'. How does one love Caliph Ibrahim, Osama bin Laden, Gadafi, Idi Amin, Polo Pot, Hitler and Kim Jong-Un or their ilk?
 

We Never Know

No Slack
I reject both - love for God (which is an imaginary entity) and love for all people (there are those who are most devious and heinous). I am not a 'love addict'. How does one love Caliph Ibrahim, Osama bin Laden, Gadafi, Idi Amin, Polo Pot, Hitler and Kim Jong-Un or their ilk?

How does one love their spouse? Their god?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Abrahamic religion tests have no choice. Only one answer - "Yes, Sir.". If you don't give that, you fail and get eternal hell.
No, if you fail the test you get lose eternal life, which is nearness to God. Hell is nothing more than eternal separation from God.
Don't ask me how to pass the test, I am still working on it.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
No, if you fail the test you get lose eternal life, which is nearness to God. Hell is nothing more than eternal separation from God.
Don't ask me how to pass the test, I am still working on it.
I have no need to ask you. I don't hanker after the 'eternal life carrot' shown by the religious to the ignorant and superstitious people, or care to be near or distant to an imaginary entity (God). I have already had an interesting 80-year life full of pleasures and sorrows that I have waded through. And that is enough.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
No, I do not think that anyone has to belong to any Club for God to guide them, although those who are more open to being guided will get more guidance, because if they are fighting God God will generally leave them alone, although He will still love them and care about them.
So, children dying of bone cancer are also guided by your God, who will lead them with only their best interest in mind?

ciao

- viole
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Baha'is send people off to faraway places to spread the word kind of like how Christians sendoff missionaries. So, if the Baha'is are correct, the Christian is giving those people a false message. Like the typical Christian interpretation about God as being a Trinity. To a Baha'i, that is wrong. And Christians believe a poor sinner needs to be saved from their sin. The beliefs are way different.

So, the poor Christian missionary, putting his "faith" and "trust" in God, goes off to some jungle tribe and get speared to death. He was trusting a misconception of God, according to Baha'is. So, some people are trusting wrong beliefs. And then going off to convert others to those beliefs? I wonder how many tribal people have been converted to maybe several Christian sects, and then converted by a Baha'i missionary?
Well, everybody says that. People believing in X must believe that the message of Y, where X and Y are not equal, must be wrong. For all X and all Y. They all have their prophets, their prophecies, their miracles, and yet they believe in mutually contradicting god.

There is no greater defeater of theism than theism itself.

Ciao

- viole
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Abrahamic religion tests have no choice. Only one answer - "Yes, Sir.". If you don't give that, you fail and get eternal hell.
Don't all religions have some kind of invisible threat if people don't obey? For the Israelites if they broke the law or disobeyed they could get stoned to death or God might send a lightening bolt to kill them. Even in Christianity some people were killed by God for lying. But the main threat is the judgement from the invisible God. Aren't there similar things in some Hindu sects? Like even with reincarnation the threat is a person comes back in a worse situation with even more bad karma if they didn't do good.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Isn't that a choice...aka freewill?
Hmmm? The choices? Believe in God that he sent his Son to pay for my sins and obey his rules and I get to go to heaven? Or, don't believe God, deny his Son, do whatever feels right to me and then get cast into a fiery pit? What's so "free" about be given those choices? Are there some other options?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
How does one love their spouse? Their god?
How complete and honest is that love? Is either one absolute? Not only would you give your life for God and spouse, but do you, everyday? And will you keep loving that spouse if he/she doesn't give that level of love back? Sure, you are supposed to, but can you?

Then loving God. Which God? Even within Christianity there are differences in beliefs on what a person should do. If I don't speak in tongues, am I really believing, trusting and loving God? If I don't observe the Sabbath, am I really obeying the commandments and loving God? If I don't give away all my riches and follow him, am I really honestly and totally loving God?

But then add in believers of other religions... Like the Baha'i Faith. They don't believe God is a trinity. If some Baha'i gives all their heart to their concept of God is that real or is it worshipping and loving a false God?

And, since it doesn't seem like most religious people give all their love to God, then do they really believe and trust in that God? Why are they holding back?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Don't all religions have some kind of invisible threat if people don't obey?
Aren't there similar things in some Hindu sects? Like even with reincarnation the threat is a person comes back in a worse situation with even more bad karma if they didn't do good.
Hinduism does not have anything like that. The worst that a king or a society can do is to exile a person outside the city (Candala - outcaste) for social crimes. Having a different view is never a cause for punishment. I am a Hindu and as you know, I am happily a strong atheist. Of course, heinous crimes like murder, robbery, rape, etc., can attract death penalty. The current Indian way is death by hanging, and no other.
That is not threat, that is 'karma phala' (fruits of one's action). And there is no deliverance from 'Karma phala' (like in Christianity and Islam). That has to be borne. Even the Gods cannot change it. But then, one is given more chances through reincarnation. Of course, I do not believe in all that. :)
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Hinduism does not have anything like that. The worst that a king or a society can do is to exile a person outside the city (Candala - outcaste) for social crimes. Having a different view is never a cause for punishment. I am a Hindu and as you know, I am happily a strong atheist. Of course, heinous crimes like murder, robbery, rape, etc., can attract death penalty. The current Indian way is death by hanging.
That is not threat, that is 'karma phala' (fruits of one's action). And there is no deliverance from 'Karma phala' (like in Christianity and Islam). That has to be borne. Even the Gods cannot change it. But then, one is given more chances through reincarnation. Of course, I do not believe in all that. :)
I'd be interested in knowing how you can accept the Hindu faith and identify as an atheist?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
You and other atheists simply have a different idea as to what constitutes evidence.
But it's the same between religions. A Christian can say the Bible is evidence of God. They'll say look at creation. God created all of this in 6 days. The geological evidence points to a young Earth and to a world-wide flood. Biology shows that evolution is false. Then Baha'is say, "Hell no. The Earth is billions of years old. The flood is fiction. And evolution is real". Two very different beliefs. And both believe they have evidence to support their beliefs. So, Baha'is are actually making the evidence. that some Christians use to prove God, as being false.

Then those same Christians make everything about the Baha'i Faith false based on what they believe the Bible teaches. Then Atheists look at both of you and ask, "This invisible God of yours... how do you even know he is real? It all could have been made up."
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Hinduism does not have anything like that. The worst that a king or a society can do is to exile a person outside the city (Candala - outcaste) for social crimes. Having a different view is never a cause for punishment. I am a Hindu and as you know, I am happily a strong atheist. Of course, heinous crimes like murder, robbery, rape, etc., can attract death penalty. The current Indian way is death by hanging, and no other.
That is not threat, that is 'karma phala' (fruits of one's action). And there is no deliverance from 'Karma phala' (like in Christianity and Islam). That has to be borne. Even the Gods cannot change it. But then, one is given more chances through reincarnation. Of course, I do not believe in all that. :)
Well, I think all cultures that had Gods, probably invented them. And one reason to invent them was to make laws that were from a divine source and would be enforced by the invisible divine being if the laws were not obeyed.

But now... we have to make laws to limit the power of religions. To make laws that allow people the freedom to practice their religion without being threatened by people from some other religion. But we also have laws and send in police to put a stop to over-the-top religious leaders that are using and abusing people. Even Baha'is say that all the old religious laws should be done away with. But then, they come in with their own new laws.
 
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