Do you understand the New Testament

[emiliano]

Man has a will. And it can be, no IT IS INFLUENCED by the circumstances it has experienced or given hereditarily. Same for Jesus. His will was influenced by the Father and His will WAS MADE to be like the Fathers. His Words [/QUOTE

]were the Fathers. Do you actually believe Jesus could have willed not to do the Fathers will?

Then How come Jesus call all men to come to him
Mat 11:28
CometoMe, all [you] who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Oh and you say He surrendered it---how so if He was prophesied for this exact purpose? Well you have the prophecy back in very early Genesis but I will use this one from Isa 53

Jesus asked that if it was possible to take the cup of Calvary away and still accomplish His work but if this was not that he will do God will and not His. What was Jesus will at the time of Him asking?
O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me

At the point where Jesus started creating He had no CHOICE IN THE MATTER because He had volunteered to do it and the Father made Him stick to it. (in all due respect That one might be over your head)

He asked: O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me

Tell me where there is a scripture that says man has a struggle to disobey God without His spirit in him. Oh but its in reality the opposite, man CANT obey God without His spirit. Ya catch that? Without His spirit we cant do good. Now I can show you plenty of scriptures on that but I will wait for yours.

But we can obtain the Holy Spirit by simply asking, so it is up to us.
Luk 11:13
If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!"

Satans whole role is to test/tempt and accuse man, yet man will still believe he makes his choices without any cause or influence and they believe the lie that in every man is good really. They make themselves guilty without even knowing it. They don’t realize how much they deny God and His existence and sadly Christianity is the worst.

Yet He is full of contradictions when He says His mercy is boundless and He wont save His enemies which if only He would give them the gift of faith and yet tells us to love ours. And why is He only sovereign in His election? Wouldn’t that bay default make Him sovereign over those who He don’t elect? Ah that where that doctrine of free will hits again “man can chose to obey or not on their own”.

Luk 11:13
If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!"

What about those who never heard? Jake Kennedy says they’ll burn for ever and this is justice. Unbeleivable. What about those God didn’t want to give His grace to? Think about it

What happened to God influences all our actions? Is it possible that God can’t save them if He wants to?

 

[emiliano]

I told you the truth from the scriptures but you don’t want to believe it? I will state it again plainly this time----In this age God doesn’t want everyone to believe in His Son, but all will in their season. I know Christianity teaches differently but even they cant see the contradiction with thinking those people over in Israel is Gods chosen when they DENY His Son. Let alone all the scriptures that speak otherwise

There you have it, I can freely choose not to believe your doctrine, although it is seductive (I can do whatever and God must take me in His Kingdom, because He make it) and what’s with “In this age God doesn’t want everyone to believe in His Son” in their season? Where is this stated in scripture?

 

[AK4]

FREESPIRIT

Well!
Your believes are well over my head; I am suffering to understand you,

Its kinda like what it says in Hebrews 6

1 Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, 2 instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal (eonian) judgment.

And like verses (1 Cor 3:2,1Co 9:7Heb 5:12, Heb 5:13 ). Theres the milk of the Word and theres solid food for maturity---most of the Christian churches teach the milk like whats stated in Heb 6 but then they mix in a lot of the pagan doctrines out there and no more growth is done by an individual. That is why there is a distinction also made by God stated throughout the Word of those who are just called (example here in Matt 7:22) and those who are called AND chosen (example Rev 17:14). See like ive shown before God call MANY into the Christian churches to learn the basics/milk/elementary teachings, get corrupted by their unscriptural and anti scriptural doctrines then tells ALL to come out of her (Mystery Babylon) (Rev 18:4) but only a FEW do (see Matt 22:14). In short, the MANY churches out there don’t teach the solid food of the Word at all. So when you put their doctrines up against the Word youll find how much they contradict on almost all of their doctrines. They teach the basics but as they try to go into the deep things of God they contradict the Word and introduce all kind of pagan stuff. That is why you have the man searching for that treasure or pearl of great price and when he found it he sold everything (all the false teachings of the church/religions) he had to get that pearl/treasure etc etc.

but my spirit keeps on telling me that God is in charge of all that takes place in the universe but he is not responsible for the perceived evil that occurs.

Check this out and seriously think on it.

"But, Why would God allow His Own Word to be so twisted and perverted by translators and theologians so that it represents what can only be called "A LIE" in the deceived minds of billions of Christians worldwide?" Yes, why indeed?
Did God not warn against, "...If any man shall ADD UNTO these things...And if any man shall TAKE AWAY from the words of this book...." in vain? Did God warn against something that He Himself knew for a fact could not and would not ever happen? Most would answer, "Yes." No He wouldn't. God inspired these warnings because there would be and now have been those who absolutely have both, "added to, and taken away from" the words of Revelation, and other books of the Bible. But not all Bible Translations are guilty of this crime. Just enough of the most popular translations so as to deceive all but the very Elect down through the centuries.
Not only have words been added to and taken away from some Versions of the Holy Scriptures, but even in Paul's day, he warned of not just adding or taking away some words, but adding whole epistles that were bogus.
"That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand?' (II Thes. 2:2).
And are we to foolishly believe that such crimes against God's Word were done against God's foreknowledge or against His plan and purpose. I speak as a fool. God didn't just "allow" such things, HE HIMSELF BROUGHT THEM ABOUT! But why? Why would God Himself cause to come about the thing that He warned against? Excuse me, but are all of you totally new-comers to the Word of God? God has ALWAYS brought about the very things that He warned against, and it started with warning Adam not to take of the forbidden fruit, which God later (by caused circumstances) caused Adam to choose [voluntarily, yes, but based on the circumstances presented to him] to disobey God.
Am I saying that God Himself deceives people? No, I never came up with any such teaching - I READ IT IN THE BIBLE:
"And there came forth a spirit [a lying spirit], and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him. And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a LYING spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And He [the Lord] said, You shall persuade him, and prevail also, go forth, and DO SO. Now therefore, behold, the Lord [Who? 'the LORD'] has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets, and the Lord has spoken evil concerning you" (I Kings 22:22-23).
"Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will entice him. And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go out, and by a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the Lord said, You shall entice him, and you shall also prevail: go out, and DO EVEN SO. Now therefore, behold, the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all His prophets, and the Lord has spoken evil against you" (II Chron. 18:21-22).
But I though that "God cannot lie" (Titus 1:2)?He can't, but He does send those who DO LIE.
But I thought that "God tempts no man" (James 1:13)? He doesn't, but He sends those who DO TEMPT. (Matt. 4:1, I Cor. 7:5, I Thes. 3:5, Heb. 4:15).
Surely God does not desire for even one person to be deceived? Surely He DOES:
"and for this cause GOD shall send them strong DELUSION [Gk: 'fraudulence, straying, deceit, delusion, error'] that they should BELIEVE A LIE" (II Thes. 2:11).
Read that again a few times, as most of you either didn't get that verse, or you just flat out don't believe it should be a part of Scripture.
And before the ink is dry on this Installment I will be accused of teaching that God purposefully causes people to be deceived. Imagine that? Many will say, "I don't want to hear any more of this kind of teaching." No, what they mean is, "I don't want to hear anymore of the Word of God, for they despise the Word of God:
"you despise this word" (Isa. 30:12);
"he has despised the word of the Lord" (Num. 15:31);
"they have cast away the law of the Lord of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel" (Isa. 5:24);
"Whoso despises the word shall be destroyed..." (Prov. 13:13).
But why would anyone despise the word of God? Because they are deceived of Satan and are unrighteous:
"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe A LIE" (II Thes. 2:10-11).
When it comes to these 'hard sayings' of the Scriptures, most Christians start having problems with these "inerrant" words of their King James Bibles. No, they don't want to believe these plain and properly translated Scriptures, but they are most eager to believe the erroneous and fallacious translation of aioniosinto an "everlasting" and "eternal" hell of torture.

 

[AK4]

without considering that you actually choose to jump. Or did God caused you to jump? According to you yes he did caused you to jump, I cannot absolutely accept that, because for me to say that, it is blasphemy.

It’s the circumstances that will cause you jump, so if a lying spirit says to you “that you can fly” and you believe that lying spirit (which ultimately comes out from God and no demon or devil can operate without “permission” from God, example Job and temptation of Jesus) and jump, you chose to do it, yes, but ultimately it was God who works in you to do and to will (Php 2:13), because “O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself. It is not in man that walks to direct his steps” (Jer. 10:23) and “Man’s goings [Heb: ‘steps’] are of the Lord; and even for the person who jumps, who believed the lying spirit used by the Lord, it was God who let the person believe the lie because He is the One who ---well let me just put another scripture… “The preparations (arrangement, plan, preparation) of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the Lord.” (Prov. 16:1).

So as you can see even if one did jump, it was planned by the Lord for that person to plan and to do it and choose to believe the lying spirit and choose to jump.


What you are promoting is like the criminal or the sinner that blames the law, which makes them criminals or sinners, for if there was no law neither there would be crime or sin.

In No way am I. what I am saying is what also Paul says throughout Romans especially chapters 7 & 8. Just because one knows all is of and out of God does not just justify ones actions. See that’s all part of the beautiful illusion of free will---you feel as if you are doing everything all on your own, thoughts and actions and judgments, therefore you are to “judge yourselves” and “work out your own salvation” and “follow His commandments” but really its all on God, not you. Since this illusion feels as if we do everything on our own and we believe we do everything on our own then we are held accountable for our actions. So as Paul said “I would not of known what covet is except for the law”---criminals and sinners know right from wrong and they feel as if their actions are there own so since they feel that way God will hold them to it because ultimately “they knew not it was of the Lord”.

To state the fact that all is of and out of God and that we all can only do what He has purposed or planned is not wrong. Its not a copout. It’s a fact. It says so, He says so. And if stating the facts is blaming God for bringing about circumstances for things that happen whether good or bad, which ultimately will be for the good of all, am I not recognizing what the scriptures say and the TRUTH that all is out of God and not how the churches, theologians, the world think which is some is out of God, but oh no not satan—he is his own creator and he created evil---so in otherwords the churches, theologians, the world teach contrary to the scriptures “all is out of God”.

But that is no important because as you say all will be saved, do you include Satan and his angels in the saved or not?

Please don’t take my word for it, check the scriptures yourself, “test the spirits”, test what I may be saying, not to what you think may be in the scriptures but what actually is in the scriptures and that it doesn’t contradict anything.

Yes even satan will be reconciled or saved

"That in the dispensation of the fulnesss of times he might gather together in one ALL in the Christ, both that in the heavens and that in the earth" (Eph. 1:10, Concordant Literal New Testament).

"For by Him were ALL things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible [Satan and demons] whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers [including 'principalities and powers' of Eph. 6:12] : all things were created by Him, and for Him...And, having made peace through the blood of the His cross, by Him to RECONCILE ALL unto Himself; by Him, I say whether they be those in earth or those in heaven" (Col. 1:16 & 20).

"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in HEAVEN, and those in EARTH, and those UNDER THE EARTH. And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ IS LORD [I Cor. 12:3b], to the glory of God the Father" (Col. 2:9-11).

"...Behold the Lamb of God, which takes away the SIN OF THE WORLD" (John 1:29b).

"For He [Jesus] must reign till He has put ALL ENEMIES [Satan is an enemy [Matt. 13:39] under His feet...that God may be ALL in All [that includes ALL God's creatures]" (I Cor. 15:25 & 28).

For the sake of all I do hope you are right; but I believe you are deluding yourself.

I just go by what the Word says. I know I am not deluded because I always question what I think may be right or what someone else thinks is right and put them up against the Word and see if it contradicts in any way and if it contradicts in one way, believe me its starts contradicting in many many ways. So I measure everything up to the scriptures. It’s the many (the churches/theologians/world) who get delusioned, not the few (the called AND chosen).

Mt 13:11 - He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.


Lu 8:10 - And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

 

[AK4]

There you have it, I can freely choose not to believe your doctrine, although it is seductive (I can do whatever and God must take me in His Kingdom, because He make it) and what’s with “In this age God doesn’t want everyone to believe in His Son” in their season? Where is this stated in scripture?

Its not my doctrine and if it was "my doctrine" and it was the truth then it would be up to God to give you the gift of believing in it so no it you couldnt "freely choose". Seductive? I guess that can be taken in many ways so I will just say the truth is always seductive. But how does it say in the Word

1Co 6:12 - "Everything is permissible for me"--but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"--but I will not be mastered by anything.

1Co 10:23 - Everything is permissible"--but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is constructive.

Its not that God must (well yes it is because He spoke it and scripture can not be broken “God is not a man that He should lie”), but it is that He will and for those who are raise in the resurrection of the unjust will not have a happy time being converted, but they will convert willingly.

"To every thing there is a season (and a time to every purpose under the heaven" (Ecc. 3:1).

The word “season” in the KJV is translated from the Hebrew word, z[e]man, and is defined in Strong’s Hebrew Dictionary as: "APPOINTED season occasion, time." And "purpose" is defined as: "pleasure, desire, matter." Sometimes rendered as "purpose" or "event."

Here’s a second witness to this grand declaration:
"Because to every purpose [matter or event] there is time and judgment..." (Ecc. 8:6).
And a third witness:
"…for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work" (Ecc. 3:17).

Here are a couple translations that make this verse a little clearer:

"...for He has appointed a time for every matter, and for every work..." (The New Revised Standard Version).

"For He has set season for every event and for every deed..." (The Concordant Literal Old Testament).

"A time [an 'APPOINTED time'] to be born, and a time [an 'APPOINTED time] to die..."

Ec 3:11 -He has made everything beautiful in its time (season)....

Etc etc.

Also does this sound like He wants to save everyone in this age/season

Mt 13:15 - For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'

Yet “all Israel will be saved” “I will save my people” etc etc etc. Now I know you wont see this because you believe the false translation of the words olam/aion/aionios for as everlasting, eternal, and for ever and ever. Which brings me to why YOU dont see the salvation of all in Jesus’s Gospel and you think it’s a “Paul thing”.

 

[AK4]

To Ak4,
The influences that God causes in man are call God's Law and we are to make our choices in accordance to His laws. God does not tempt anybody to do evil

No He doesn’t, but uses satan and others for this job, so again another witness
Ne 9:6 - You alone are the Lord. You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the earth and all that is on it (the principalities, dominions, thrones, powers, including the prince of the power of the air), the seas and all that is in them. You give life to everything, and the multitudes of heaven worship you.

God sent His servant with the message "Let my people go to a place where they shall worship me their God, surely you know pharaoh's answer was. How many does God gives us?

Before even pharaoh had a chance to “not let His people go” and talk to Moses God hardened His heart so where is pharaohs free will?

This is predestination right? Did God give this man several opportunities? As we know God supported His servant so as to make it clear that Moses was the messenger

Okay God says “I will harden his heart so I can magnify my Name …..” and God does this each time BEFORE Moses even got to speak to pharaoh. God spoke it and will bring it pass (Isa 46:10), and “My Word shall not return void” and yet you believe pharaoh could have voided the very words, declarations, prophecies of God with his freewill to chose to actually let them go before God wanted him too? Can you see the god like powers, my bad not god like but beyond God like powers man wants to have over their very creator with this free will/ free choice. Its blasphemy.

The power that we have is the power that God gives us is the power to respond to his call, the power to look at God's law and be convicted of our sins and the need for the Savior

Yet who believes this “need for a Saviour” when you can come to God all on your own. When you can will anytime you want to “find that need for a Saviour”. You do it on your own time not on His time. Forget what He has prophesied right?

Judas repented, didn’t he? Scripture said that did so even at that later hour He provable received mercy.

You dodged the question-- Could Judas will himself from being the betrayer of Jesus?---You know the answer is no. What happened afterwards is not the question at hand. Judas was predestined to betray Jesus and had no freedom of the will to will himself out of it.

As you can see even the worst of sinners can receive mercy if he repent, but what if he applied your doctrine God make me do it (the bible says that it was Satan)

Would that get judas out of being accountable? Nope. Now does it say judas betrayed Jesus or does it say satan betrayed Jesus? Hmmm. Did satan enter judas because “his lust for money” and influenced Judas to actually betray Him? Yup. It sounds as if you are letting judas now copout and say satan did the actual act and not judas. Hmmmm. Think about that.

But God sent His servant to give us the Law, If we know the Law we are responsible for choosing to do good in accordance to His Laws.

God gave the law to Israel but didn’t give them the gift of faith which imparts the ability to be able to choose that right choose what is good in accordance to His laws. So if God didn’t give them the faith they needed, then how much are they responsible? Are you getting it? Lets say God gave you a puzzle to put together in one hour and you have every piece but one and God is holding that one from you and He doesn’t give you that piece and the hour runs out---Whos responsible? Can God say to you “why didn’t you just will or free will or freely choose or whatever your way to finish the puzzle?” No because He knows He is the one who kept the piece from you.

God gives the gift but some reject it

Then how much of it did God give them? Not enough to keep the faith.

 

[AK4]

emilano

Then How come Jesus call all men to come to him
Mat 11:28
CometoMe, all [you] who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Because this is an “experience of evil” an “evil time” He has given the sons of mankind ---Read Ecclesiatics. He "snared us in an evil net" and wants all to escape because He loves us.

Jesus asked that if it was possible to take the cup of Calvary away and still accomplish His work but if this was not that he will do God will and not His. What was Jesus will at the time of Him asking?
O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me

I thought I explained that one to you already. His "words were the Fathers". He was here as an example to us on how to worship God. Jesus, like us, have a will. Like Jesus, we have all been predestined for something. Like Jesus our very own Lord cried out in agony to His Father because His flesh did not want to go through the crucifixion necessary because of the sin of the world, we too because of our flesh we cry out in agony to our Father because our flesh/carnal mind dont want to go through the necessary things to die/crucify ourselves to be a reasonble sacrifice.

But we can obtain the Holy Spirit by simply asking, so it is up to us.
Luk 11:13
If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!"

So you are still believing that it is up the person to first come to Christ and not that its God first drawing/dragging you to the point where you would actually ask that He gives you the holy spirit? Part of that drawing/dragging God is teaching you how to even do good and give good gifts.

What happened to God influences all our actions? Is it possible that God can’t save them if He wants to?

Yes He does. Are you saying God cant have whatever He wants? Think about that. He wants all to come to the knowledge of the truth and wants to save all men and wants to be all in all, yet He cant get what He wants? Who does He think He is? God? “I speak as a fool”

 

[free spirit]

TO AK4

I fill like I am on the edge of a precipice, and it is indeed a very dangerous place to be.
Therefore I must withdraw from the discussions for a time to consider what the Lord wants me to do.
At the moment I have you marked as a claver and informed deceiver, the last attempt of Satan to deceive me as it were.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I understand the NT.

No need to read anything before or after this post.

Thanks and good night!

 

[blueman]

Hi! Abilash welcome to the forum.:foryou:
The Bible is a special book it reavils nothing to the unbeliver, but it is a treasure to the believer, it contains things that a child in Christ can understand as well as things for the mature Christian. the teachings a gratual like the days you went to school, and the teaching is about the love of God for umanity, and how to be holy as he is holy.
Right now If you believe in a holy and merciful God you are closer to him that you could ever immagin.

Welcome to RF. I would respectfully disagree with you on the statement you made about the Bible providing nothing for the unbeliever. I think there are insightful passages throughout scripture that underscores God's love for the unbeliever and His message of reconciliation through Christ Jesus.

 

[free spirit]

Welcome to RF. I would respectfully disagree with you on the statement you made about the Bible providing nothing for the unbeliever. I think there are insightful passages throughout scripture that underscores God's love for the unbeliever and His message of reconciliation through Christ Jesus.

You are confusing the sinner with the unbeliever.
The sinner reads the bible and in so doing finds that all is no lost because he can be reconciled to God through the atonement of our Lord.

Those who believe in a non Christian God Have to hear the word preached before he can be converted, because reading the word by himself is not profitable to him, for faith cames by hearing.

The unbeliever on the other hand is not looking for God, because according to him there is no God.

 

[free spirit]

I understand the NT.

No need to read anything before or after this post.

Thanks and good night!

Please do not be that negative, I have learned new things through this thread; the way to go is to make a contribution, you do have something to contribute don't you?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Please do not be that negative, I have learned new things through this thread; the way to go is to make a contribution, you do have something to contribute don't you?

I'll try not to be that negative. The title of the thread is highly provocative to me.

I'll try to contribute at some point but I don't think that anything that I say would be accessible to the usual readership of this thread.

I'm tired. I've read about 4,000 pages in the past four days, and I can't drink any alcohol to wash it down.

 

[free spirit]

I'll try not to be that negative. The title of the thread is highly provocative to me.

Why is highly provocative to you?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Why is highly provocative to you?

I have learned that the NT is pregnant with meaning.

 

[AK4]

TO AK4

I fill like I am on the edge of a precipice, and it is indeed a very dangerous place to be.
Therefore I must withdraw from the discussions for a time to consider what the Lord wants me to do.
At the moment I have you marked as a claver and informed deceiver, the last attempt of Satan to deceive me as it were.

Well what can i say. For i know the many will not understand, but hey, may God open your eyes and come to the knowledge of the truth. I was where you are before so i know the feeling.

ps. Deciever? Man thats harsh. Just check everything ive said and all the scriptures i quoted and judge for yourself. Dont forget to download the free e-sword and check and use concordances often.

pps. If i may ask and i wont respond back if you dont want me to, but tell on what you feel i decieved you on please. Just curious.

 

[free spirit]

Well what can i say. For i know the many will not understand, but hey, may God open your eyes and come to the knowledge of the truth. I was where you are before so i know the feeling.

As you know the word of God is a two edges sword, therefore it can be made to legitimize the thought of men, as well as the thought of God, I will have to dig deep to separate your fleshly taught from the taught of the Holy Spirit; it will take me some time, but I will come up with the answer.

ps. Deciever? Man thats harsh. Just check everything ive said and all the scriptures i quoted and judge for yourself. Dont forget to download the free e-sword and check and use concordances often.

I have to question everything as you say, what you are saying doesn't sound true, but i must admit that the scriptures point that way; but We know that the letter kills but the spirit gives life; so I will have to bring the question to a head.
The most successful deceivers are those that do not know that they are deceived, so they are sincere in their deception. Thanks but I do not need to download the e-sword because it is anly the teachings of men, and I am a pupil of the Holy Spirit, as 1st. John said.
And this is the promise, which he himself made to us, eternal life.
These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you.
And as for you, IF the anointing which you received from him abides in you, you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as his anointing teaches you about all things and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in him.

pps. If i may ask and i wont respond back if you dont want me to, but tell on what you feel i decieved you on please. Just curious.

Your idea does not glorify the Lord, on the contrary it makes the Lord a puppet, also the idea takes away from us the incentive to do better; what I like to know from you is what benefit this believe brings to the faithful? I see none!

 

[sojourner]

TO AK4

I fill like I am on the edge of a precipice, and it is indeed a very dangerous place to be.
Therefore I must withdraw from the discussions for a time to consider what the Lord wants me to do.
At the moment I have you marked as a claver and informed deceiver, the last attempt of Satan to deceive me as it were.

I wouldn't say "deceiver," just "misinformed."

 

[sojourner]

I have learned that the NT is pregnant with meaning.

With quintuplets, I might add!

 

[AK4]

Quote: freespirit
As you know the word of God is a two edges sword, therefore it can be made to legitimize the thought of men, as well as the thought of God, I will have to dig deep to separate your fleshly taught from the taught of the Holy Spirit;
Seriously what I have presented is far from fleshly. It is deep in spirit, spiritual and of the deep Truths of God, but for most they wont see or understand or have the discernment because the Word so plainly says this.

it will take me some time, but I will come up with the answer.
Quote:
I have to question everything as you say, what you are saying doesn't sound true, but i must admit that the scriptures point that way;
Yes question it. The more you question it (or anything) the more it will either prove to be true or to be false. This is a way, in my opinion and I believe it is stated in the Word in a couple of places, a way God teaches us. Of course it doesn’t sound true because we’ve all been taught and immersed in the deception of this world and that’s why the scriptures “point” in a different direction than what the world teaches.
but We know that the letter kills but the spirit gives life; so I will have to bring the question to a head.
Understandable.

The most successful deceivers are those that do not know that they are deceived, so they are sincere in their deception.
Exactly. The same quote I gave to sojourner—Can the deceived know they are deceived?---That’s why I question everything and put it to the test of scripture, so I am confident that if you put anything Ive said up against the scriptures it will stand, not saying I cant be wrong though

Thanks but I do not need to download the e-sword because it is anly the teachings of men
No I was saying just download there free bible that comes with a strongs concordance. It comes with other versions of the bible like KJV, Youngs Literal, and even the original Hebrew and greek manuscripts. It’s a great study tool and you don’t have to read any of the commentaries. I didn’t, never have and probably never will. Its great for “rightly dividing the word” and doing word studies like just on a word like hell

, and I am a pupil of the Holy Spirit, as 1st. John said.
And this is the promise, which he himself made to us, eternal life.
These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you.
And as for you, IF the anointing which you received from him abides in you, you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as his anointing teaches you about all things and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in him.


Yup, it is only God who really gives one understanding and knowledge of the truth, but it also says He does use “the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe” and the preaching do come from man also called messengers sometimes angels.

Your idea does not glorify the Lord, on the contrary it makes the Lord a puppet, also the idea takes away from us the incentive to do better; what I like to know from you is what benefit this believe brings to the faithful? I see none!

“My” idea glorifies God and magnifies it. Oh the wisdom behind His whole plan and His workings is so beyond brilliant that I couldn’t come up with an adjective to describe it. The way that it works out that “He will have mercy on all” is soooo magnificent. The “idea” in no way takes away the incentive to do better. Just because He says He will save all is not the same as saying He will save all anyway. Everyone will go through the same process. Either you judge now or get judged later. Everyone will learn righteousness through suffering, but the later judgment is on a more severe level.

Just because He is working out everything according to His Will/Plan and not having to constantly, every second of everyday with billions and billions of people adjust His plan to the every thought and action of man, thing or beast

“My idea” says God is in control of everything, free will says man is in control and God has to adjust/change to them which means God is only sort of in control. Which one actually glorifies God?

“My idea” says God uses satan and evil to bring about righteousness in man. The worlds idea says God is battling against satan and LOSING badly and satan created himself along with evil and is BEATING the Almighty and will actually win more souls than Him. Which one actually glorifies God?

“My idea” tells me to test the doctrines and beliefs of man to the truths of God, like the belief that God didn’t create evil, and when the truth comes out and God plainly states “I create evil” and God gives me understanding and discernment and knowledge and wisdom teaches me why He did create evil and I acknowledge the infinite wisdom behind it all and glorify Him for it, well you tell me then…

The incentive is to try to make it in the coming ages to be part of the Kingdom as a king and priest of God. God gave us a will, along with emotions and feelings etc etc to where by circumstances He can bring His plan for humanity to fruition. I KNOW the truth about this free will thing and I am still incentive-ised (is that a word?) to better or produce fruit worthy of God. I am not the only one either who knows and feels this way. Theres plenty out there.

What benefit(s) it brings you ask? Oh I could go on for days but I will just state two.

• To know God is Sovereign and in control of everything and this is all by design and part of His plan and NOTHING is out of control. God is in control and not man’s free will.
• To know the truth and to know that that truth sets one free.