Do you understand the New Testament

[AK4]

but God's plan is to make some of us like him so we can inherit him and rule the universe with him,

No Gods plan is to make everyone who has ever been born or created, in the heavens and the earth to be “like Him”. But “each in their own order”. Check this out

EVERY MAN SAVED IN HIS OWN ORDER

I Cor. 15:20, 23, 24 presents us with the type and fulfillment of the three harvest festivals:
1. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the FIRSTFRUITS OF [the rest of the firstfruits awaiting resurrection] them that slept ... But EVERY MAN in his own ORDER: Christ the firstfruits..." (The Wave Sheaf of the very first of the firstfruits).
2. "Afterward they that are Christ’s at His coming [the rest of the firstfruits that are sleeping and those alive waiting]. (The Firstfruits, the Spring Harvest).
3. Then comes the END [The Fall Harvest, the Feast of Tabernacles]. "…and the feast of INGATHERING, which is in the END..." (Ex. 23:16). What did Jesus say would happen in "the end," at the "end of the Feast," "the last day," "the last great day of the feast?" "In the last day, that GREAT DAY OF THE FEAST, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If ANY MAN thirst, let him come unto Me, and drink. He that believeth on me, ...out of his belly shall flow rivers of LIVING WATER" (John 7:37-38).

THEN COMES THE END​

I Cor. 15:24 says, "Then comes the END…" "The end" of what? Just what is it that "ends" in "the end?" Does the earth end? Does the universe end? Do we end? What ends in the end? Let’s look at a few verses before we come to "the end" in verse 24:
Verse 20:
"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept."
Comment: Contrary to popular teaching, there was no heavenly welcoming committee of men and women who became firstfruits BEFORE Christ became the FIRSTFRUIT. No, there were no saints welcoming Christ back to heaven. Christ taught:
"And NO MAN has ascended into heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man" (John 3:13).
Jesus Christ was the FIRST. Ask your pastor if this verse really is true, that "NO MAN" has ascended into heaven. This would then mean that Lazarus and Abraham in the Rich man parable also were NOT IN HEAVEN as most teach that they were, wouldn’t it?
Among the very last few words that Christ uttered on this earth were these:
"I am Alpha and Omega, the BEGINNING and the END, the FIRST and the LAST" (Rev. 22:13).
So yes, Christ is the first of the firstfruits. He is the first of EVERYTHING, He is the very Creator; and He is the last, the end, the CONSUMMATION of God’s plan of universal salvation.
Ver. 21-22: "For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For AS in Adam ALL die, EVEN SO in Christ shall ALL be made alive."
Comment: First I want to show you that the word "alive" in this verse is a word that is used with reference to imparting immortality, and not just mortal life. The Greek word is zoopoieo, and it means to give life beyond the grasp of any future death. Notice how it is used in Rom. 8:11, "But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead [Christ was raised to immortality, not back to a mortal life] dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken [zoopoieo] your mortal bodies." So clearly God does not give "mortal" life to our "mortal" bodies, seeing that we already have mortal life. No, He imparts IMMORTALITY to us. And this is exactly what Paul tells us, "For this corruptible [body] must put on incorruption [spiritual], and this mortal [dying or dead body] must put on IMMORTALITY [Gk: DEATH-LESS-NESS]" (Verse 53). And to whom does Christ grant immortal "zoopoieo" life? Answer: "ALL." The very same "all" who die in Adam are the very same "all" who are given life IN CHRIST.
Notice that it is "IN Christ ALL" and is not restricted to only, "ALL IN CHRIST" as many have tried to twist this verse to mean. They say it is only all those who are "in" Christ. But that is not what this verse says. It says "in Christ ALL." That is the order of words. This verse is not speaking of just the "all believers" who are said to be "IN Christ." No, this verse is speaking about the very same "in Adam ALL" who die become the very same "in Christ ALL" who are made alive. And although this particular verse does not say that "all" are now "IN Christ," it does most definitely say that "in Christ," the "ALL" shall be "made alive." "Made alive" does not prove they are "in" Christ or that they are "saved," only that they have been given immortal life. Then comes JUDGMENT. But don’t think that there is no Scripture that says they will eventually "ALL" be "IN" Christ, because there is:
"That in the dispensation of the fullness of times He might gather together in one ALL IN Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth" (Eph. 1:10).
Christ first raises ALL to mortal life. At a later date He gathers this same ALL into Himself. The "in Christ ALL" then becomes the "ALL IN CHRIST". Every creature in heaven and earth will be ONE IN Christ! I hope you can believe that.
Ver. 23-24: "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at His coming. Then cometh the end…"
The King James starts a new sentence and a new verse with the words, It should, however, be a continuation of the previous sentence. There are three items in view here, not just two. The Concordant Version has a better rendering of this:
"Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ’s in His presence; thereafter the consummation"




1,2,3. So there are three orders or classes that synchronize with the three festivals of harvest. Notice them: 1. "The Firstfruit, Christ" (The Passover, The Wave Sheaf)
2. "Thereupon those who are Christ’s" (Pentecost, the Firstfruits
3. "Thereafter the consummation [the end]" (the final Fall Harvest of Ingathering in the end of the year).

So there will be a fall harvest at the end, at the CONSUMMATION.



verse 24:
"thereafter the consummation when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power."
Notice that Christ does not rule "forever and ever" as is popularly taught, but rather delivers up the kingdom to GOD His Father. But He does this after He puts down ALL RULE AND ALL AUTHORITY, AND ALL POWER. "That in the dispensation of the fullness of times He might gather together in one ALLin Christ, both which are IN HEAVEN, and which are ON EARTH". And so here is our Scripture which clearly states that "ALL" in both heaven and earth will become "ONE IN Christ." Now they are no longer just given life in Christ, but now they are SAVED, they are "one in Christ!"
Who then is left out? NO ONE! These ALL in heaven and earth are not gathered "under" Christ, but "IN Christ!"

 

[AK4]

but only a small number are chosen to reach that position,
In this age

the rest God will judge and I know that he is just, they may live as you say,

Not me. The scriptures say this. Christendom and its theologians and preachers don’t.

and I hope you are correct for he is merciful;

All you got to do is believe the Word and throw out the stupid doctrines of Christianity.

but to me right now that is not my concern,

This sorta bothered me when you said it the first time and I didn’t really address it, but now I will just say “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good tidings (good news, the gospel)”. Now what bothers me about it is that you said way earlier in this thread that you feel God has called you to be a teacher, yet if you don’t know or are not convinced that Jesus is the Saviour of all and will save all—How can you be a teacher? I am not judging you but if you don’t believe scriptures that say stuff like this or you doubt it because of other badly translated verses that contradict this then I believe you should really take heed to what James said about people who consider themselves teachers?

it is out of my sphere of influence so why should I waste my time with it.

Only because you called yourself a teacher and someone who understands the NT.

Your theory takes away the hope that anyone can change and that is ungodly and cruel.
I sincerely hope that there are no many that think like you, I can absolutely guaranty you this; God has not made you the way you are today, the deceiver has had a lot to do with it.

How so? It only shows that all is of God. God is the only way capable of saving anyone, not man himself. It shows the sovereignty of God over man. It shows mans need for a saviour, not man saving himself. It shows no man can change unless God gives them the power to. It uplifts God, not man and his so called freewill.

Compared to the many, there are only a few of us you can say. I don’t know the exact number. We are not a denomination or followers of any man. We are a people who try follow Gods truths and have been shown the truth by God of many things and doctrines of the world, especially the one of freewill---which is the biggest stumbling stone for all mankind. And about the deceiver, the same was said about Jesus for telling the truth. I understand you don’t understand some of the things I have shown from scripture. Its hard and it takes a miracle from God for these doctrines to be removed from our being.

 

[AK4]

You have forgotten to include that Cornelius made the right willful choice and gave heed to the law; right now you are making a willful choice to resist the common sense approach to this discussion, are you aware of that?
I never threw out the ability to choose. When God gives someone enough faith to be ABLE to choose the right choice, then that person can choose it, otherwise they wont choose the right choice.



We read in Philippians 3:6 - 7, "As to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the law, found blameless. But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ."

So, did Paul choose Christ first or did Christ choose him? Paul was blameless in the law, but he was not with Christ before hand. All the stuff, just as Paul states was nothing, not worth a red cent for Christ to choose Him. “not of works”

please reconsider your position in the Lord for he is holy. It seems to me that you do not understand the concept of holiness.

Come now. Your position is saying man has to do something for God to choose them. My position says there is nothing anyone can do that makes God choose them. Mans “holiness” verses Gods holiness. Judge for yourself which one is scripturally correct. Hint “none seeks God” “I chose you, you didn’t chose Me” “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” etc etc etc.

 

[free spirit]

So you believe that God Had the poor man blind from birth so that he could be glorified by it? how could you think like that about the God that you worship. You believe the scriptures without spiritual insight, you cannot even see that it is a slander against God's holiness.

This reminds me of something I read before from‘The Berean Call.’ You know what Berean means,
“we searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things to be so or not.” (Acts17:11).
The only problem is, they come up with every unscriptural heresy you could imagine.
But from ‘The Bereans call,’ we have this;
“Thus God would be the author of evil (this is in suggestion, that if we didn’t have free will, then this would be the case) and we have the contradiction of God telling them (in the garden, Adam and Eve) not to eat of the tree, causing them to do so, then punishing them for disobeying Him, a thought repugnant to human conscience and logic.”

Well there it is. How do we ever know we have a free will? Because if we didn’t, then what God does is repugnant.
What did they just admit? They just admitted, without knowing it, that they think that God, His plan, His Word, His truths are repugnant.

No AK4

What I find repugnant is what you say of the evil that he does, because evil is a contradiction of God's character.
The only way I can come close to your way of thinking is if we equate God with the law. In that case yes, because the LAW is HOLY like GOD is HOLY, Also the law of God is the will of God.
Therefore the LAW intention is to safeguard my welfare, also God's intention is to safeguard my welfare. For in Galatians 3:23 - 24, we read "But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith." As you know God also leads us to Christ.
But if we break the LAW we offend God and his LAW becomes our executioner.
But the mercy of God has even shielded those in Christ from the mercilessness of the law, by fulfilling for us the requirements of the law himself.

AK4, If we continue on this subject we will be only repeating ourselves, I come a long way from when we first met, it was because of you that the Lord has given me the above conclusion of his doings, and I am grateful to you for pushing me to the limit, to the point that I needed to rest in the Lord to find an adequate answer to your battering ram. So having been given the answer, and if you think about it, it is a fear answer, because it does not negate your theory but it puts it in the holy prospective.
Satan do the evil works, he is the inforcer of God's law; for every law has the appropiate punishement.

 

[free spirit]

but only a small number are chosen to reach that position,
In this age

the rest God will judge and I know that he is just, they may live as you say,

Not me. The scriptures say this. Christendom and its theologians and preachers don’t.

and I hope you are correct for he is merciful;

All you got to do is believe the Word and throw out the stupid doctrines of Christianity.

but to me right now that is not my concern,

This sorta bothered me when you said it the first time and I didn’t really address it, but now I will just say “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good tidings (good news, the gospel)”. Now what bothers me about it is that you said way earlier in this thread that you feel God has called you to be a teacher, yet if you don’t know or are not convinced that Jesus is the Saviour of all and will save all—How can you be a teacher? I am not judging you but if you don’t believe scriptures that say stuff like this or you doubt it because of other badly translated verses that contradict this then I believe you should really take heed to what James said about people who consider themselves teachers?

it is out of my sphere of influence so why should I waste my time with it.

Only because you called yourself a teacher and someone who understands the NT.
No it was not earlies in this thread that I said, I have been called to be a teacher it was in our PM. and yes I do understand the NT the gospel in particular for it is the life of Christ, which life is of vital importance to the believer, not only to know how it unfolded but we believers should also endeavor to imitate in this earthly life. After having been transformed by that life I am sure that the things that you speak about will be tough to me by the Holy Spirit. Those things are out of this world, and are for our personal knowledge only, 2 Corinthians 12;4. therefore we should not give heed to the words of men for at best they are mare speculations.

Your theory takes away the hope that anyone can change and that is ungodly and cruel.
I sincerely hope that there are no many that think like you, I can absolutely guaranty you this; God has not made you the way you are today, the deceiver has had a lot to do with it.

How so? It only shows that all is of God. God is the only way capable of saving anyone, not man himself. It shows the sovereignty of God over man. It shows mans need for a saviour, not man saving himself. It shows no man can change unless God gives them the power to. It uplifts God, not man and his so called freewill.

Compared to the many, there are only a few of us you can say. I don’t know the exact number. We are not a denomination or followers of any man. We are a people who try follow Gods truths and have been shown the truth by God of many things and doctrines of the world, especially the one of freewill---which is the biggest stumbling stone for all mankind. And about the deceiver, the same was said about Jesus for telling the truth. I understand you don’t understand some of the things I have shown from scripture. Its hard and it takes a miracle from God for these doctrines to be removed from our being.

Here again you do not consider that even that freewill has been given to men by God so God has is finger in everything; but as a loving father he wants us to go to him willingly

 

[free spirit]

You have forgotten to include that Cornelius made the right willful choice and gave heed to the law; right now you are making a willful choice to resist the common sense approach to this discussion, are you aware of that?
I never threw out the ability to choose. When God gives someone enough faith to be ABLE to choose the right choice, then that person can choose it, otherwise they wont choose the right choice.



We read in Philippians 3:6 - 7, "As to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the law, found blameless. But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ."

So, did Paul choose Christ first or did Christ choose him? Paul was blameless in the law, but he was not with Christ before hand. All the stuff, just as Paul states was nothing, not worth a red cent for Christ to choose Him. “not of works”
please reconsider your position in the Lord for he is holy. It seems to me that you do not understand the concept of holiness.

Come now. Your position is saying man has to do something for God to choose them. My position says there is nothing anyone can do that makes God choose them. Mans “holiness” verses Gods holiness. Judge for yourself which one is scripturally correct. Hint “none seeks God” “I chose you, you didn’t chose Me” “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” etc etc etc.

The law theaches us faith, like faith in doctrines of men, nevertheless it is faith; you must have that sincere misguided faith first, and God see that and you are chosen like he chose Paul, like he chose me, I cannot boast because my faith was misguided, God saved me despite that, I how him everything.

 

[free spirit]

but God's plan is to make some of us like him so we can inherit him and rule the universe with him,

No Gods plan is to make everyone who has ever been born or created, in the heavens and the earth to be “like Him”. But “each in their own order”. Check this out

Matthew 7:13 - 14, "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it."
AK4 can you fit that in your theory?

 

[AK4]

Matthew 7:13 - 14, "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it."
AK4 can you fit that in your theory?

Wait its not my theory, its what the Scriptures say and teach. I just showed you one way. I also showed you another way when Jesus said "I came to save those who are lost". There are many many many ways to show the salvation of all in the scriptures. It takes spiritual eyes, a gift to rightly divide the Word, and always having two or three witnesses to be able to see it.

Jesus says His words are spirit which means (to put it simply) the bible doesnt mean what it says, it only means what it means. Thats why when He "speaks" to us and world now through His Word, He is still talking to the multitudes in parables. And just like back then the multitudes didnt get what He was saying. Even His disciples didnt get it until He explained it to them and sometimes they still didnt get it. But after they were converted Jesus as the holy spirit started speaking to them "plainly".

Anyway that parable up there is like what ive been telling you guys all along. Its about the called and chosen, the many and the few--notice those two words in that verse.

If you refer back to where i showed being lost/destruction (grk: apoleia) is the perfect place for one to saved by Jesus you will see how that verse fits into "my theory". Those who dont make it into the Kingdom will one day after Judgment (judgment means to set right, not punish for ever and ever) still be saved.

 

[AK4]

No AK4

What I find repugnant is what you say of the evil that he does, because evil is a contradiction of God's character.

Check this out

A FEW OF THE EVILS THAT GOD USES IN SAVING THE WORLD​

​

​

The Scriptures assure us that God did not create things that had no purpose for existence in the first place. All that God created was "very good." God "created evil," how can evil be good? That sounds like something God Himself said that we should not say: "Woe unto them that call evil good…" (Isa. 5:20).

First let me clarify that it is God Who says to US not to do this. In Gen. 1:31 it is God Who says:
"And God saw every thing that He had made [‘I make peace, and create evil’ Isa. 45:7] , and, behold, it was very good…"

Is this a contradiction? No, but it takes a bit of wisdom beyond childhood to properly understand it. God makes things that are "good," even "very good," that are not inherently good. That is, they are not good in and by themselves, but they are very good, in fact, PERFECT, for the purpose for which they were created.

Here are a few that existed before our parents sinned:
· The spiritual weakness of Adam and Eve
· Satan the serpent devil
· No protection from the serpent devil
· The Tree of the knowledge of good and EVIL
· Nighttime and darkness
· Human emotions of greed, lust, and vanity

God created all of these things, and yet not one of them is "good" in and by its self. Yet they are all perfectly good for the purpose for which they were created. But since they are not inherently good, they will all be changed or discarded after they have fulfilled their purpose. In the kingdom of God there will be, no weakness, no insecurity, no devils, no night, no emotions of lust and vanity, and nothing ugly. All of the things that I listed are TEMPORARY tools that will be discarded when the human race is perfected.

Next, let’s see a few of the evils that God Himselfhas used after Adam sinned:

"I create EVIL" (Isa. 45:7)

Out of God’s mouth "proceeds…EVIL and good" (Lam. 3:38).

"…an experience of EVIL has God given to the sons of man…" (Ecc. 1:13, Concordant Liter Old Testament).

"…I [God] will raise up EVIL against thee…" (II Sam. 12:11).

"…has not the Potter [God] the right… to make… one [vessel] for DISHONOR?" (Rom. 9:19-25).

"I [God] created the waster to DESTROY" (Isa. 54:16).

"The Lord has made…the WICKED for the day of EVIL" (Prov. 16:4).

"…I [God] will bring EVIL from the north, and a great DESTRUCTION (Jer. 4:6).

"…Hear, O earth: behold, I [God] will bring EVIL upon this people…" (Jer. 6:19).

God told a "lying spirit" to "…go forth, and do so [lie]" (I Kings 22:22).

"He [God] turned their heart to HATE His people…" (Psalm 105:25).

"Behold I [God] frame EVIL against you…" (Jer. 18:11).

"For God locks up all together in STUBBORNNESS [that’s an evil]…" (Rom. 11:32).

"O Lord, why have You MADE us TO ERR from your ways…" (Isa. 63:17).

"…so shall the Lord bring upon you ALL EVIL THINGS…" (Josh. 23:15).

"…shall there be EVIL in a city, and the Lord has not done it?" (Amos 3:6).

"Yet He [God] is SCOURGING [severely beating] every son to whom He is receiving" (Heb. 12:5).

"What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God and shall we not receive EVIL" (Job 2:10).

"Thus saith the Lord of hosts… go and SMITE Amalek… DESTROY… SLAY both man and woman, infant and
suckling…" (I Sam. 15:2-3).


"…God shall send them strong DELUSION, that they should believe A LIE" (II Thes. 2:11).

I do not take delight in presenting these Scriptures to you. They are hard saying, for sure, but they are the truth; they are Scriptural; and they are all done by God; and they are "very good" in accomplishing the desired end result that God has planned from the beginning. God is justified in all that He does. All is out of love and for the advancement of turning every human creature into the very "Image of God."

Christian theology will not allow or tolerate the Scriptural teaching that God Himself created evil and uses evil continuously down through history and out into the prophetic future to accomplish His will.

 

[AK4]

The only way I can come close to your way of thinking is if we equate God with the law. In that case yes, because the LAW is HOLY like GOD is HOLY, Also the law of God is the will of God.
Therefore the LAW intention is to safeguard my welfare, also God's intention is to safeguard my welfare.

Imma be blunt with you here freespirit only because I want you to think and pray on these things.

For what you are saying and what I have seen you post, you know some of Gods character. You know that He is good, but you don’t fully know/understand just how good He is. I only say that last part because I don’t think you are convinced that He will save all of His creation, that no one will be left out (because you keep calling it my theory). You don’t fully know His character or what it means when it says “God is love” if you are not convinced in heart and mind of this.

You know that all is of God, you don’t fully accept that God created evil and you don’t accept that God uses evil for a purpose. You don’t know or accept this character part of God, using evil. You are not willing to BELIEVE the scriptures that shows God using evil---these scriptures are not saying He is evil. He uses an evil to bring out the good.

When you only consider God as law, you probably don’t see it but I can, that you are still just distancing God to a far off place. How do I know this? Its because I was once there before also and “being turned” (Rev 1:12) I can now see the error in that thinking


AK4, If we continue on this subject we will be only repeating ourselves, I come a long way from when we first met, it was because of you that the Lord has given me the above conclusion of his doings, and I am grateful to you for pushing me to the limit, to the point that I needed to rest in the Lord to find an adequate answer to your battering ram. So having been given the answer, and if you think about it, it is a fear answer, because it does not negate your theory but it puts it in the holy prospective.
Satan do the evil works, he is the inforcer of God's law; for every law has the appropiate punishement.

God wants you move beyond fear to reverence. I know you do know what the NT says of fear. Besides most of the places in the bible where it states fear of the Lord should be reverence/respect. Knowing all is of God and God uses evil for the purpose of God will definitely humble you and give Him reverence and respect He deserves. Just as He has done with many people, God will use satan to straighten you or me or anyone out.

 

[AK4]

Here again you do not consider that even that freewill has been given to men by God so God has is finger in everything; but as a loving father he wants us to go to him willingly

God gave us a will, not freewill. God gave us the ability to choose, not an ability to choose from nothing or an ability to have an uncaused choice.

 

[free spirit]

Wait its not my theory, its what the Scriptures say and teach. I just showed you one way. I also showed you another way when Jesus said "I came to save those who are lost". There are many many many ways to show the salvation of all in the scriptures. It takes spiritual eyes, a gift to rightly divide the Word, and always having two or three witnesses to be able to see it.

Jesus says His words are spirit which means (to put it simply) the bible doesnt mean what it says, it only means what it means. Thats why when He "speaks" to us and world now through His Word, He is still talking to the multitudes in parables. And just like back then the multitudes didnt get what He was saying. Even His disciples didnt get it until He explained it to them and sometimes they still didnt get it. But after they were converted Jesus as the holy spirit started speaking to them "plainly".

Anyway that parable up there is like what ive been telling you guys all along. Its about the called and chosen, the many and the few--notice those two words in that verse.

If you refer back to where i showed being lost/destruction (grk: apoleia) is the perfect place for one to saved by Jesus you will see how that verse fits into "my theory". Those who dont make it into the Kingdom will one day after Judgment (judgment means to set right, not punish for ever and ever) still be saved.

Glory to God He is more loving that I ever thought possible, so he used evil people as tools to shape his chosen ones to perfection. But in the end of time he shows mercy even to all tools.

What about those ungodly people that commit evil deeds for their own selfish purposes.

 

[free spirit]

No AK4

What I find repugnant is what you say of the evil that he does, because evil is a contradiction of God's character.

Check this out

We read in Luke 9:53 to 56, "and they did not receive him, because he was journeying with his face toward Jerusalem. And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, do you want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them? But he turned and rebuked them, and said, You do not know what kind of spirit you are of; for the son of man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. an they went on to another village."
So the disciples did not know that evil is not in God's agenda, they believed that the spirit of God could do both.

 

[free spirit]

The only way I can come close to your way of thinking is if we equate God with the law. In that case yes, because the LAW is HOLY like GOD is HOLY, Also the law of God is the will of God.
Therefore the LAW intention is to safeguard my welfare, also God's intention is to safeguard my welfare.

Imma be blunt with you here freespirit only because I want you to think and pray on these things.

For what you are saying and what I have seen you post, you know some of Gods character. You know that He is good, but you don’t fully know/understand just how good He is. I only say that last part because I don’t think you are convinced that He will save all of His creation, that no one will be left out (because you keep calling it my theory). You don’t fully know His character or what it means when it says “God is love” if you are not convinced in heart and mind of this.

You know that all is of God, you don’t fully accept that God created evil and you don’t accept that God uses evil for a purpose. You don’t know or accept this character part of God, using evil. You are not willing to BELIEVE the scriptures that shows God using evil---these scriptures are not saying He is evil. He uses an evil to bring out the good.

When you only consider God as law, you probably don’t see it but I can, that you are still just distancing God to a far off place. How do I know this? Its because I was once there before also and “being turned” (Rev 1:12) I can now see the error in that thinking

Government's laws are made some distance from the people, those who makes them do not enforce them, therefore the evil that those law unleash on the breakers of that law does not come from the law makers.

AK4, If we continue on this subject we will be only repeating ourselves, I come a long way from when we first met, it was because of you that the Lord has given me the above conclusion of his doings, and I am grateful to you for pushing me to the limit, to the point that I needed to rest in the Lord to find an adequate answer to your battering ram. So having been given the answer, and if you think about it, it is a fear answer, because it does not negate your theory but it puts it in the holy prospective.
Satan do the evil works, he is the inforcer of God's law; for every law has the appropiate punishement.

God wants you move beyond fear to reverence. I know you do know what the NT says of fear. Besides most of the places in the bible where it states fear of the Lord should be reverence/respect. Knowing all is of God and God uses evil for the purpose of God will definitely humble you and give Him reverence and respect He deserves. Just as He has done with many people, God will use satan to straighten you or me or anyone out.

He disciplines every child whom he received, discipline can be looked upon as evil, but after it produces the fruit of righteousness, and we will be thankful for that discipline.
But what about the evil (or discipline) that is not aimed to make us perfect?

 

[free spirit]

God gave us a will, not freewill. God gave us the ability to choose, not an ability to choose from nothing or an ability to have an uncaused choice.

God has given us the ability to reason, and according to our reasoning we make our chaises.
If we reason for good we will do good, if our reason for personal interests we will do selfish things, reason is based and takes from your soul and spirit, it shows your personality. there is a reason behind everything that we do or say, our reason is free to even go against its own reasoning or sacrifice itself.
it is free to will and to do as it see fit.
Edit; Animal are not free; we read in 2 Peter 2:12 to 14, "But these, like unreasoning animals born as creature of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed, suffering wrong as the wages of doing wrong. they count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime. they are stains and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, as they carousing with you, having eyes full of adultery and that never cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having a heart trained in greed, accursed children." If God is saving them why Peter is saying that?

 

[free spirit]

AK4

You know that all is of God, you don’t fully accept that God created evil and you don’t accept that God uses evil for a purpose. You don’t know or accept this character part of God, using evil. You are not willing to BELIEVE the scriptures that shows God using evil---these scriptures are not saying He is evil. He uses an evil to bring out the good.

NO, he uses discipline to bring out the good in us.

When you only consider God as law, you probably don’t see it but I can, that you are still just distancing God to a far off place. How do I know this? Its because I was once there before also and “being turned” (Rev 1:12) I can now see the error in that thinking

NO, if we equate God with the law, we bring God closer to the punishment been administered.
It is like our country been administered by the rule of law, in other words our government's law is doing what was meant to do, without making your president or Governor the executioner.

You should re-read job, His wife said to him "curse God and die" or blame God and be at peace;
but he would not do that because it would have been a sin, think about this, can a criminal blame the law makers for the evil that is about to come upon him; we know that ultimately the law makers are those that condemned him even before he did the crime.

 

[AK4]

We read in Luke 9:53 to 56, "and they did not receive him, because he was journeying with his face toward Jerusalem. And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, do you want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them? But he turned and rebuked them, and said, You do not know what kind of spirit you are of; for the son of man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. an they went on to another village."
So the disciples did not know that evil is not in God's agenda, they believed that the spirit of God could do both.

Notice it was the disciples who wanted to send fire from heaven. They werent even converted yet, so could they or would they know how to use an evil 100% of the time righteously? I wouldnt think so. Notice also what Jesus says of them "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of", so proves how the disciples werent converted yet and didnt know how use "the power of God" righteously.

Its sounds bad when you say in Gods agenda, but truth is truth---Its is a necessary tool into bringing those into the Kingdom. Heres something to think on. We are told by the scriptures that "through much tribulation" we are to make it into the Kingdom. Is it not true that some of this tribulation will be evil things done to us? Remember those God has elected were predestinated for that very purpose. Look at Paul and his thorn in the flesh. Paul prayed three time for God to remove it, but was denied because God said His grace is sufficient for him. It was a learning and humbling tool used by God on Paul. Notice what Paul says about it

6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. 7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given (Notice it was given, but by whom?) to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

So it begs the question, who gave the messenger of satan to keep Paul humble? Well the answer is right there. Its the same "who" who gave Paul the abundance of revelations. Lets keep going

8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. (why would he besought the Lord?) 9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

So you see this messenger of satan was evil (just read about all the stuff Paul had gone through, i got a list if you want it), and this messenger was given by God to keep Paul humble because of the abundance (grk: beyond measure) of revelations. Another necessary evil used by God.

 

[AK4]

Glory to God He is more loving that I ever thought possible, so he used evil people as tools to shape his chosen ones to perfection. But in the end of time he shows mercy even to all tools.

I truly hope you believe this with all your heart and mind and spirit. The Gospel or good news is not just for those who make it in the first resurrection, its for all man-kind. Think, if the good news was only for those in the first resurrection, the gospel is the worst news ever for those who dont make it and Jesus said only a few would find the narrow path. Think how much more glory will be given to God for not just saving some or a few, but ALL. It shows Gods soveriengty and power to be able to save even the worst criminals and evil men in history like Hitler and Manson.

What about those ungodly people that commit evil deeds for their own selfish purposes.

Yes even them. They all served some kind of purpose for God (believe me i also have my thorn in the flesh called my ex and the "fair and balanced" court system). Just as these evil governments and politicians today serve a purpose for "keeping order" and "delivering justice" so does these people who fall for the lust of the eyes, flesh and pride of life even the for the money and power.

Little do these people know, they are being used by God to fulfill His purpose (i can personally testify to this). They most likely dont even think about God because they are caught up in their own selfish purposes. Read about the king of assyria and nebecannezar and you should see a direct parallel to those who fall under the own selfish purposes umbrella.

One last thing. Jesus said right before giving up His spirit "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do". This can be taken two fold. They knew not that they were killing their own Saviour but also they knew not that because of their selfish purposes and evil acts they were doing what God had planned from the foundation of the world.

 

[AK4]

AK4



NO, he uses discipline to bring out the good in us.

The Scriptures say there is no good in us, we are not even able to do good without God, not until God Himself puts it in us. We, by instinct, are bad. "None seek God" "ALL have sinned" etc etc

He does chastise and discipline us so when He does give us some of His spirit we can learn from our sins.


NO, if we equate God with the law, we bring God closer to the punishment been administered.
It is like our country been administered by the rule of law, in other words our government's law is doing what was meant to do, without making your president or Governor the executioner.

If the law is written in your heart, yes this can be true but also vise versa.

You should re-read job, His wife said to him "curse God and die" or blame God and be at peace;

Curse and blame are two totally different things. You are changing the words to fit your thinking. We have the verse clearly stating that He "blamed" God but not with wrongdoing and later God said Job spoke Him right. No where did Job curse God. He kind of cursed the day he (Job) was born, but never did he curse God.

but he would not do that because it would have been a sin, think about this, can a criminal blame the law makers for the evil that is about to come upon him; we know that ultimately the law makers are those that condemned him even before he did the crime.

What if the law makers create a real stupid law? And we know that they do. Now if you break a stupid law, is it the law makers fault for creating that stupid law? Isnt that the same thing when someone breaks a good law? Either or the law makers are the blame for bringing any law. or lets say they are responsible for bringing that law. Now this doesnt apply to God of course because His laws arent stupid. But isnt He responsible for making these laws? Is He not responsible for making man as they are? Is He not responsible for giving everyone faith? You cannot take the blame and responsibility away from God no matter what human reasoning you use if you answer those three questions honestly and scripturally. The only answer to this that anyone could use is freewill, which throws God out completely, so its not honest or scriptural.

He makes the laws---"counsel of My own will" (Eph 1:11)
He makes us as we are "Potter and pot/vessel of honor and dishonor" (Isa 29:16, Rom 9:21)
He and only He gives faith " not of yourselves" (Eph 2:8)

So who is the blame/responsibility of all---good and bad?

The christian and world teachings dont see this truth of God and how it shows His power, glory, majesty and soveriengty and most of all Love. Instead they want to be responsible for everything and be their own god and save themselves.

 

[AK4]

God has given us the ability to reason, and according to our reasoning we make our chaises.
If we reason for good we will do good, if our reason for personal interests we will do selfish things, reason is based and takes from your soul and spirit, it shows your personality. there is a reason behind everything that we do or say, our reason is free to even go against its own reasoning or sacrifice itself.
it is free to will and to do as it see fit.

So then God is a liar, this verse is a lie and many other scriptures with it is a lie.

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Php 2:13 - For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Maybe it should have been written like this---

Christian theology 1:1- For it is YOU and your freewill, reasoning and other abilities which works within YOURSELF both to will and to do of YOUR good pleasure.

One day you will have to come to grips with this verse and other verses like it to see if what you've always understood and been taught all your life is true. Only one can be true. [/FONT]


Edit; Animal are not free; we read in 2 Peter 2:12 to 14, "But these, like unreasoning animals born as creature of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed, suffering wrong as the wages of doing wrong. they count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime. they are stains and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, as they carousing with you, having eyes full of adultery and that never cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having a heart trained in greed, accursed children." If God is saving them why Peter is saying that?

He is not saving them right now. He is not going to save people like these in this age or the next, but in the following they will be, each in their own order. Their destiny is Judgment--which means to set right. they will have an age-during life of judgment and repentence and learning righteousness. (Its not going to be a cake walk for them either because all the lusts and pride etc etc they had before they will have to repent of). Those who were part of the first resurrection will be the ones teaching them for the glory of Jesus and God the Father.

Its not like God is not "worried" about them. And its not like Hes only "focusing" on His elect. He is working through all to bring all those loving Him, good. And of course, eventually all will be loving Him.

Notice what the King James leaves out in this verse

Ro 8:28 - And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
and now what it should read

"And we know that GOD works together all things for Good to the (ones) loving God…" (Interlinear Greek-English New Testament, By J P. Green, Sr).

‘Now we are aware that GOD is working all together for the good of those who are loving God…" (Concordant Literal New Testament).

"We know, further, that unto them who love God, GOD causes all things to work together for good…" (Rotherham’s Emphasized Bible).


Amazing isnt it? How God was left out of that verse. And for that last one "unto them who love God", those who truly love God have come to be along with His will in that no one will perish and that all come to the knowledge of the Truth. Our will has become like His so that "God CAUSES all things to work together for good"

Also notice you said animals are not free, and throughout scripture man is considered to be like wild beasts, We are the beast in Revelation.