MountainHumanist
Member
As far as the Temple Guard vs. Roman Soldier question goes..think about it like this. The Temple Guards were like the local cops. The Roman soldiers would be equivalent to federal troops of federal agents.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Do you understand the New Testament
- Thread starter free spirit
- Start date
AK4
Well-Known Member
Heres something sad but funny. This is trully what christianity and all religions do. From Hell Raisers
It brings me great pain to admit my collosial error over the last year here on hubpages. In fact, this mistake goes back over four years and possibly my entire life. I sincerely hope that god will obsolve me of this unforgivable blunder as it appears that I have done a great diservice for him and his church. This error is so great that I should get on with deleting every hub written so far. See, it has come to my attention that so many churches out there cannot all be wrong about the essential doctrines of god. This is especially true about eternal hell. Oh god, please accept my appologies. How could I have been so wrong. Hell is real. And I have learned that approximately 125,000 people go there each day. Please don't let me be one of them. It must be really hot down there. But why are so many going to this eternal barbacue pit? It is due to the crimes of those who call themselves christians. They will of course, reap the benefits of eternal happiness in the clouds while billions physically burn with complete nervous systems but no way of burning up. And what is the crime of god's beloved Christians?
They insist on telling the masses about jesus, making those people eligible for hell. See, if those poor Africans and Aborigines never hear about jesus, they go directly to heaven at death because they were never warned. Why do missionaries perform such a wicked diservice to the pagans of the world by telling them about jesus? The church has made it clear that those who never hear will be taken care of. And of course, children go to heaven because they can never do wrong. So why, Christians? Let them all pound their drums, dance with tree leaf suits and when it rains, allow them to thank their pagan gods. At least they will go to heaven because they were never told about jesus. What are ya? Selfish?!!
Again, I repent of my non belief of church doctrines. They are the truth because 2 billion people say so. And I have been warned, so there is no choice. I must accept the truths of:
Eternal Hell
Free Will
The Trinity
The Rapture
Lucifer Devil
Church Tithing (Boy, I gots some back payments to make up.)
Young Earth
Global Flood
And of course, christ was made to be the very sin that all of the world is guilty of.
Now, some will aggressively attack me because the bible (especially the original scriptures) don't teach any of those doctrines listed above. In fact it teaches a different gospel all together than what the organized churches teach. Well pardon me for my self righteous comments but, maybe the writers of the bible should have gone to church and stopped adding and subtracting from the word of Christianity. In reading the bible, it is clear that they never attended church like they were supposed to. Let's check just a few examples:
The bible denies eternal hell.
John 1:29 Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.
No he doesn't. We are given a free will to accept jesus or burn.
John 4:42 . . .For we have heard Him ourselves and know that this is truly the Christ, the Savior of the world.
Now that's just a wicked lie. he will do no such thing. No real church building preacher says that. And they must be right because there are so many of them.
The bible denies that we have free will.
Jer. 10:23 . . . . .I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
Once again, they lie. We direct our own free will steps because the church says that we can't use God's purpose as an excuse. I know the bible never says anything about excuses but that won't save the writers from the fire.
Rom. 3:11 "the goodness of God leads you to repentance"
Oh, so it's God that led you to change that old ladies tire on the side of the road? No, us real Christians know that it is our free will that we used to decide on helping out. Because we're better than you. god has nothing to do with our good works.
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you.
Hope you bible writers packed a lot of sun block 10 billion because if you don't think you can choose god on your own, it's gonna be an eternal magma bath.
The bible denies the trinity:
John 19:39 I and the Father, We are One.
Excuse me bible writers, but you forgot about the holy spirit there.
John 16:27-28 . . .. I came out from God. I came out from the Father. . . .
Which one of them is the holy spirit?
Eph. 1:17 . . .that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father. . . .
Oh, it appears that the holy spirit is never called the Father or God anywhere in the bible. You people must have never gone to church. They have asserted that god exists in three eternal persons: god the father, god the son and god the holy spirit.
Darn good thing that the Catholic church decided to fix the trinity doctrine into the bible in about the 15th century with this:
1 John 5:7-8 And the spirit it is which is testifying, for the spirit is the truth, seeing that three there are toat are testifying, the father, son and the holy ghost: and these three are one.
These are all essential doctrines of the church and cannot be denied. The reason that the bible teaches a whole different gospel is because they never even went to church. They couldn't even find correct wording to show that the saved go to heaven forever and the damned will burn forever. They used terms that mean only for a time. Had they gone to church like they were supposed to, they would have been witty enough to: First, create scriptures for a dungeon of torture in the after life called hell. Second, they would say that the torture would never come to an end because obviously, there was no word back then for eternity. Thank god for the King James Bible correcting some of the mistakes in the originals. But why bother, the scriptures are a hoax and go against the all mighty words of the many varieties of Christian churches.
So we can assume that churches back then were the same as today and taught all of those essential doctrines. But those writers of that day were probably warned by those who attended church. So, at this moment, I'm sorry to say, they are surely being barbecued in some eternal dungeon of fire, or at the very least, taking a bath in liquid hot magma inside of the earth. And this is all because:
The church holes would not keep their gargantuine spit factories closed about jesus, splitting hell wide open with poor souls daily. Please Christians, listen to your church teachings about heaven and hell. If you don't tell people the truths, they cannot be expected to know them. Therefore, they will be sitting with you on fluffy white clouds playing harps with the angels. And what constitutes telling of jesus? Well, when someone cuts you off in traffic, don't yell out jesus christ!!, unless you want them to go to hell. Assume that no one around you has heard your church given truths, or even the name jesus christ. And stay out of those pagan jungles and deserts. You are saving nobody. You are only handing them a live grenade, of which if they fail to put the pin back in it with their own free will, they will be blown straight to hell.
In closing, keep your hearts closed and set on gurchd (that's god and church in one word). Do not question the teachings of gurchd. In other words, stay gurchd. But most importantly, and this is for we who want others to be saved. Mind your own beeswax and stop openning up the bowels of hell for those who have never heard.
It brings me great pain to admit my collosial error over the last year here on hubpages. In fact, this mistake goes back over four years and possibly my entire life. I sincerely hope that god will obsolve me of this unforgivable blunder as it appears that I have done a great diservice for him and his church. This error is so great that I should get on with deleting every hub written so far. See, it has come to my attention that so many churches out there cannot all be wrong about the essential doctrines of god. This is especially true about eternal hell. Oh god, please accept my appologies. How could I have been so wrong. Hell is real. And I have learned that approximately 125,000 people go there each day. Please don't let me be one of them. It must be really hot down there. But why are so many going to this eternal barbacue pit? It is due to the crimes of those who call themselves christians. They will of course, reap the benefits of eternal happiness in the clouds while billions physically burn with complete nervous systems but no way of burning up. And what is the crime of god's beloved Christians?
They insist on telling the masses about jesus, making those people eligible for hell. See, if those poor Africans and Aborigines never hear about jesus, they go directly to heaven at death because they were never warned. Why do missionaries perform such a wicked diservice to the pagans of the world by telling them about jesus? The church has made it clear that those who never hear will be taken care of. And of course, children go to heaven because they can never do wrong. So why, Christians? Let them all pound their drums, dance with tree leaf suits and when it rains, allow them to thank their pagan gods. At least they will go to heaven because they were never told about jesus. What are ya? Selfish?!!
Again, I repent of my non belief of church doctrines. They are the truth because 2 billion people say so. And I have been warned, so there is no choice. I must accept the truths of:
Eternal Hell
Free Will
The Trinity
The Rapture
Lucifer Devil
Church Tithing (Boy, I gots some back payments to make up.)
Young Earth
Global Flood
And of course, christ was made to be the very sin that all of the world is guilty of.
Now, some will aggressively attack me because the bible (especially the original scriptures) don't teach any of those doctrines listed above. In fact it teaches a different gospel all together than what the organized churches teach. Well pardon me for my self righteous comments but, maybe the writers of the bible should have gone to church and stopped adding and subtracting from the word of Christianity. In reading the bible, it is clear that they never attended church like they were supposed to. Let's check just a few examples:
The bible denies eternal hell.
John 1:29 Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.
No he doesn't. We are given a free will to accept jesus or burn.
John 4:42 . . .For we have heard Him ourselves and know that this is truly the Christ, the Savior of the world.
Now that's just a wicked lie. he will do no such thing. No real church building preacher says that. And they must be right because there are so many of them.
The bible denies that we have free will.
Jer. 10:23 . . . . .I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
Once again, they lie. We direct our own free will steps because the church says that we can't use God's purpose as an excuse. I know the bible never says anything about excuses but that won't save the writers from the fire.
Rom. 3:11 "the goodness of God leads you to repentance"
Oh, so it's God that led you to change that old ladies tire on the side of the road? No, us real Christians know that it is our free will that we used to decide on helping out. Because we're better than you. god has nothing to do with our good works.
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you.
Hope you bible writers packed a lot of sun block 10 billion because if you don't think you can choose god on your own, it's gonna be an eternal magma bath.
The bible denies the trinity:
John 19:39 I and the Father, We are One.
Excuse me bible writers, but you forgot about the holy spirit there.
John 16:27-28 . . .. I came out from God. I came out from the Father. . . .
Which one of them is the holy spirit?
Eph. 1:17 . . .that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father. . . .
Oh, it appears that the holy spirit is never called the Father or God anywhere in the bible. You people must have never gone to church. They have asserted that god exists in three eternal persons: god the father, god the son and god the holy spirit.
Darn good thing that the Catholic church decided to fix the trinity doctrine into the bible in about the 15th century with this:
1 John 5:7-8 And the spirit it is which is testifying, for the spirit is the truth, seeing that three there are toat are testifying, the father, son and the holy ghost: and these three are one.
These are all essential doctrines of the church and cannot be denied. The reason that the bible teaches a whole different gospel is because they never even went to church. They couldn't even find correct wording to show that the saved go to heaven forever and the damned will burn forever. They used terms that mean only for a time. Had they gone to church like they were supposed to, they would have been witty enough to: First, create scriptures for a dungeon of torture in the after life called hell. Second, they would say that the torture would never come to an end because obviously, there was no word back then for eternity. Thank god for the King James Bible correcting some of the mistakes in the originals. But why bother, the scriptures are a hoax and go against the all mighty words of the many varieties of Christian churches.
So we can assume that churches back then were the same as today and taught all of those essential doctrines. But those writers of that day were probably warned by those who attended church. So, at this moment, I'm sorry to say, they are surely being barbecued in some eternal dungeon of fire, or at the very least, taking a bath in liquid hot magma inside of the earth. And this is all because:
The church holes would not keep their gargantuine spit factories closed about jesus, splitting hell wide open with poor souls daily. Please Christians, listen to your church teachings about heaven and hell. If you don't tell people the truths, they cannot be expected to know them. Therefore, they will be sitting with you on fluffy white clouds playing harps with the angels. And what constitutes telling of jesus? Well, when someone cuts you off in traffic, don't yell out jesus christ!!, unless you want them to go to hell. Assume that no one around you has heard your church given truths, or even the name jesus christ. And stay out of those pagan jungles and deserts. You are saving nobody. You are only handing them a live grenade, of which if they fail to put the pin back in it with their own free will, they will be blown straight to hell.
In closing, keep your hearts closed and set on gurchd (that's god and church in one word). Do not question the teachings of gurchd. In other words, stay gurchd. But most importantly, and this is for we who want others to be saved. Mind your own beeswax and stop openning up the bowels of hell for those who have never heard.
Last edited:
MountainHumanist
Member
Suggestion: Our discussions may be more conducive and enjoyable if all try to be as concise as possible and avoid "copy-and-paste" gluts.
Your point concerning the institutional conformist nature of most churches is well taken and true. The unspoken truth of most churches when it comes to asking tough questions is "Sit down and shut up!" Sad but true.
Your point concerning the institutional conformist nature of most churches is well taken and true. The unspoken truth of most churches when it comes to asking tough questions is "Sit down and shut up!" Sad but true.
free spirit
Well-Known Member
The following scriptures are reliable testimony of the existence of stumbling blocks within the scriptures for in Matthew 13 – 24 – 25, Jesus said, “He presented another parable to them, saying. The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares also among the wheat, and went away.” And in Matthew 18 – 7, again Jesus said, “Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!”
Also 2nd Peter 3 – 16, strongly warned us by saying, “As also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also to the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.” Again 2nd Peter 2 – 1 – 2, is very specific by saying, “But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned.”
Also the apostle Paul testify about the future teaching of untruth, for we read in 2nd Timothy 4 – 3 – 4, “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths.”
By these reliable and undeniable testimonies, I am fully convinced that early in the Christian era the inspired Holy Word of God was contaminated by the word of man, making many parts of the New Testament open to speculations, which create anomalies and ambiguities, which work against the knowledge of God.
Here is one example.
(I) In Matthew 6 – 13, part of it reads: “And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil.” The verse implies that God leads us into temptation, and the need to ask him not to do that, but to deliver us from evil.
But why should we ask him that? When we all know or should know that the evil of temptation is not in God’s character. For we read in Romans 2 – 4, “Or do you think lightly of the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance.”
And we read in James 1 – 13, “Let no one say when he is tempted, I am being tempted by God; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and he himself does not tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed (led) by his own lust.” And 2nd Peter 2 – 9, has no ambiguity of the true work of the Lord for we read: “The Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under darkness for the Day of Judgment.”
So, I am only putting the record straight, in harmony with God’s true character, in accordance with his true scripture by partly restoring Matthew 6 – 13, to read: “And lead us into repentance, and deliver us from evil.”
The above verse now reflects the true work and character of our God, after all, we are talking about our Heavenly Father, therefore, we should know what he does and doesn’t do. I am sure; that an evil man, an enemy of Christ has cleverly inserted those lies in there so they would falsely assume the power of the sacred word. And prevent us to truly know and trust our God and father.
I hope you get the picture
free spirit
Well-Known Member
free spirit
Well-Known Member
TO AK4
the same questions, answered in a different way
Now, some will aggressively attack me because the bible (especially the original scriptures) don't teach any of those doctrines listed above. In fact it teaches a different gospel all together than what the organized churches teach. Well pardon me for my self righteous comments but, maybe the writers of the bible should have gone to church and stopped adding and subtracting from the word of Christianity. In reading the bible, it is clear that they never attended church like they were supposed to. Let's check just a few examples:
The bible denies eternal hell.
John 1:29 Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.
No he doesn't. We are given a free will to accept jesus or burn.
The sin of the world is the breaking of the law, Jesus came to fulfill the law (or making it whole again)
John 4:42 . . .For we have heard Him ourselves and know that this is truly the Christ, the Savior of the world.
Now that's just a wicked lie. he will do no such thing. No real church building preacher says that. And they must be right because there are so many of them.
Matthew 10:22; "And you will be hated by all on account of my name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved." Verse 28, And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
The bible denies that we have free will.
Jer. 10:23 . . . . .I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
Once again, they lie. We direct our own free will steps because the church says that we can't use God's purpose as an excuse. I know the bible never says anything about excuses but that won't save the writers from the fire.
John 8:32 to 36, "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. they answered him, we are Abraham's offspring, and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how it is that you say, you shall become free? Jesus answered them, truly truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. and the slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. If therefore the son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed."
Romans 8:2, "For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death." Verse 8 and 9, "And those who are in the flesh cannot please God. However, you are not in the flesh but in the spirit, if indeed the spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him."
Rom. 3:11 "the goodness of God leads you to repentance"
Oh, so it's God that led you to change that old ladies tire on the side of the road? No, us real Christians know that it is our free will that we used to decide on helping out. Because we're better than you. god has nothing to do with our good works.
James 1:25, "But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man shall be blessed in what he does." (The underlined phrase has a hint of free will.)
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you.
Hope you bible writers packed a lot of sun block 10 billion because if you don't think you can choose god on your own, it's gonna be an eternal magma bath.
Luke 24:47 to 49, "and that repentance for forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. you are witnesses of these things. And behold, I am sending forth the promise of my father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high."
John 15:6, If anyone does not abide in me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
John 5:28 - 29, "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment."
We will all be saved, or come to life but with a huge difference.
The bible denies the trinity:
John 19:39 I and the Father, We are One.
Excuse me bible writers, but you forgot about the holy spirit there.
John 16:7; "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the helper shall not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you."
John 16:27-28 . . .. I came out from God. I came out from the Father. . . .
Which one of them is the holy spirit?
ACTS 2:33 to 36, "Therefore having been EXALTED to the right hand of God, and having RECEIVED from the father the promise of the HOLY SPIRIT, he has poured forth this which you both see and hear. for it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself said; The Lord said to my Lord, sit at my right hand, until I make thine enemies a footstool for thy feet. Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ this Jesus whom you crucified."
Eph. 1:17 . . .that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father. . . .
Oh, it appears that the holy spirit is never called the Father or God anywhere in the bible. You people must have never gone to church. They have asserted that god exists in three eternal persons: god the father, god the son and god the holy spirit.
Darn good thing that the Catholic church decided to fix the trinity doctrine into the bible in about the 15th century with this:
1 John 5:7-8 And the spirit it is which is testifying, for the spirit is the truth, seeing that three there are toat are testifying, the father, son and the holy ghost: and these three are one.
You should read the NT. because in it you will find the explanation of how a human soul, the soul of Jesus was made part of the Godhead, and only the elected and chosen human souls are going to be with him. however the rest are going to be close to God in various degrees, he is the judge, and I am comfortable with that.
AK4 your knowledge of the Old Testament scriptures is hindering you to truly know the Spirit of Christ, I urge you to come and abide with me in the New Testament.
the same questions, answered in a different way
Now, some will aggressively attack me because the bible (especially the original scriptures) don't teach any of those doctrines listed above. In fact it teaches a different gospel all together than what the organized churches teach. Well pardon me for my self righteous comments but, maybe the writers of the bible should have gone to church and stopped adding and subtracting from the word of Christianity. In reading the bible, it is clear that they never attended church like they were supposed to. Let's check just a few examples:
The bible denies eternal hell.
John 1:29 Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.
No he doesn't. We are given a free will to accept jesus or burn.
The sin of the world is the breaking of the law, Jesus came to fulfill the law (or making it whole again)
John 4:42 . . .For we have heard Him ourselves and know that this is truly the Christ, the Savior of the world.
Now that's just a wicked lie. he will do no such thing. No real church building preacher says that. And they must be right because there are so many of them.
Matthew 10:22; "And you will be hated by all on account of my name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved." Verse 28, And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
The bible denies that we have free will.
Jer. 10:23 . . . . .I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
Once again, they lie. We direct our own free will steps because the church says that we can't use God's purpose as an excuse. I know the bible never says anything about excuses but that won't save the writers from the fire.
John 8:32 to 36, "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. they answered him, we are Abraham's offspring, and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how it is that you say, you shall become free? Jesus answered them, truly truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. and the slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever. If therefore the son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed."
Romans 8:2, "For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death." Verse 8 and 9, "And those who are in the flesh cannot please God. However, you are not in the flesh but in the spirit, if indeed the spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him."
Rom. 3:11 "the goodness of God leads you to repentance"
Oh, so it's God that led you to change that old ladies tire on the side of the road? No, us real Christians know that it is our free will that we used to decide on helping out. Because we're better than you. god has nothing to do with our good works.
James 1:25, "But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man shall be blessed in what he does." (The underlined phrase has a hint of free will.)
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you.
Hope you bible writers packed a lot of sun block 10 billion because if you don't think you can choose god on your own, it's gonna be an eternal magma bath.
Luke 24:47 to 49, "and that repentance for forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. you are witnesses of these things. And behold, I am sending forth the promise of my father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high."
John 15:6, If anyone does not abide in me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
John 5:28 - 29, "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment."
We will all be saved, or come to life but with a huge difference.
The bible denies the trinity:
John 19:39 I and the Father, We are One.
Excuse me bible writers, but you forgot about the holy spirit there.
John 16:7; "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the helper shall not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you."
John 16:27-28 . . .. I came out from God. I came out from the Father. . . .
Which one of them is the holy spirit?
ACTS 2:33 to 36, "Therefore having been EXALTED to the right hand of God, and having RECEIVED from the father the promise of the HOLY SPIRIT, he has poured forth this which you both see and hear. for it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself said; The Lord said to my Lord, sit at my right hand, until I make thine enemies a footstool for thy feet. Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ this Jesus whom you crucified."
Eph. 1:17 . . .that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father. . . .
Oh, it appears that the holy spirit is never called the Father or God anywhere in the bible. You people must have never gone to church. They have asserted that god exists in three eternal persons: god the father, god the son and god the holy spirit.
Darn good thing that the Catholic church decided to fix the trinity doctrine into the bible in about the 15th century with this:
1 John 5:7-8 And the spirit it is which is testifying, for the spirit is the truth, seeing that three there are toat are testifying, the father, son and the holy ghost: and these three are one.
You should read the NT. because in it you will find the explanation of how a human soul, the soul of Jesus was made part of the Godhead, and only the elected and chosen human souls are going to be with him. however the rest are going to be close to God in various degrees, he is the judge, and I am comfortable with that.
AK4 your knowledge of the Old Testament scriptures is hindering you to truly know the Spirit of Christ, I urge you to come and abide with me in the New Testament.
Last edited:
AK4
Well-Known Member
I agree. I just thought that was pretty funny and maybe an eye-opener for someone who is so dogmattically stuck on their church or religion.
MountainHumanist
Member
Reading free spirit's response hurt my eyes!
AK4
Well-Known Member
I thought you said you didnt believe in the trinity? Have you changed your mind? There is no third individual. I showed you this earlier in this thread in many ways how the trinity is bogus unscriptural nonsense. Follow the scriptures closely--Jesus Christ told His disciples before His departure:
"Now, whenever the consoler [Gk: 'parakletos] which I shall be sending you [notice that Christ is the Sender, but FROM the Father], that will be testifying concerning Me" (John 15:26).
"But I am telling you the truth. It is expedient for you that I may be coming away, for if I should not be coming away, THE CONSOLER WILL NOT BE COMING TO YOU." (John 16:7).
What or Who is this "comforter/consoler?" Is it the third personality of a triune God? Let's read it:
"Yet whenever that may be coming--the spirit OF truth [Christ is TRUTH. He said "I am THE TRUTH"]..." (John 16:13).
"That will be glorifying Me, seeing that OF MINE will it be getting, and informing you. All, whatever the Father has, is Mine. THEREFORE I said to you that OF MINE is it getting, and will be informing you" (John 16:14-15).
"Remain IN ME. I also AM IN YOU...He who is remaining IN ME, and I IN HIM..." (John 15:4-5).
We are IN Christ and Christ is IN us. Think about it, if going by what the church and theologians say of this trinity, once Christ comes in someone then it can no longer be THREE anymore or a trinity.
"If anyone should be loving Me, he will be keeping My word, and My Father will be loving him, and WE SHALL BE COMING TO HIM AND MAKING AN ABODE WITH HIM" (John 14:23).
And the Father ALSO will make His abode WITH US. How is this done? By the third person of the trinity? No. Christ said HE would be in us. And Christ said the Father would be also. But specifically HOW? And why must Jesus go away first?
Remember that Paul said we no longer know Christ according to the flesh. And Christ never appeared to the Apostles after Pentecost IN THE FLESH. Christ went back to the Father, but He said He would not leave us comfortless, but that He would send a comforter. He also said that it would be the "spirit of truth" and that it came TO Christ from the Father and now it IS CHRIST'S to do as He will with it.
Then who or what is this comforter, this 'parakletos'? God's Word tells us. John is the only writer who uses this word 'parakletos.' So where else does he use it? I John 2:1:
"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate [Greek: PARAKLETOS!!!] with the Father, JESUS CHRIST the Righteous" (I John 2:1)!!!
There it is! Jesus Christ IS THE COMFORTER. Jesus Christ IS THE PARAKLETOS!
When we receive the Comforter it is CHRIST, IN SPIRIT [no longer according to the flesh]! IT IS CHRIST THAT COMFORTERS US THROUGH HIS SPIRIT WHICH JOHN PLAINLY TELLS US HE RECEIVED FROM HIS GOD AND FATHER! It is THEIR [the Son's and the Father's] SPIRIT that comes in us! No trinity here! No trinity anywhere!
"Hereby know ye the SPIRIT OF GOD: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is COME IN THE FLESH is of God" (I John 4:2).
"Hereby know we that WE DWELL IN HIM, and HE IN US, because He hath given us OF [genitive--OF] His spirit" (Verse 13).
It is JESUS CHRIST Who comes IN OUR FLESH. To deny that it is JESUS CHRIST Who comes in our flesh is the spirit of ANTICHRIST.
CHRIST is our comforter. CHRIST leads us into all Truth. It is CHRIST in us the hope of glory. CHRIST is the parakletos. And this is all accomplished by the spirit OF God which the Father gave also to Christ and so we have the spirit of both the Son and the Father making its home IN US, not a third person of a fabled trinity!
AK4
Well-Known Member
Is it really that hard to see?! Of course I know the answer but gosh. When God takes off the blinders you will be like wow, how could I had believe such a thing
[/QUOTE]
Now notice this, it seems whoever did this article (also like the catholic church) change the words for their bidding. I couldnt find any translation that has the what this person has word for word, yet I do see a combination of translation and the most profound of it is the seeing that three there are toat are testifying, the father, son and the holy ghost. The words "... the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: " are not Scriptures and are found in NO Greek Manuscripts or even the early Latin Fathers writings and translations. These spurious words appear in no reputable manuscript, and no manuscript period, before the FIFTEEN CENTURY! No Biblical Scholar thinks those words are part of any original manuscripts or Scriptures. They are as spurious as the pagan trinity doctrine. Heres the correct wording
7 There are three that testify: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three agree. NOT the father, son and the holy ghost.
There is no trinity. You are fighting for a man made church doctrine, not God. So now the truth is spoken. Will you believe it?
AK4
Well-Known Member
First off that word "hell" is Gehenna and is not to be translated hell and is a judgment Christ uses only on His elect in this age, now, not on the rest of humanity. Christ is talking to His disciples not the multitudes here. To explain the rest would take pages, but in short Gehenna is judgment. It is judgment to spiritually purify them.
"He that finds his life [Gk: 'psuche' - soul, not zoe which is life] shall lose it: and he that loses his life [soul] for My sake shall find it" (Matt. 10:39).
If the elect do not "mortify their members" which Jesus spoke of those members in the previous verses. Either we 'appolumi' -destroy/lose our souls, or God will 'appolumi' our souls for us, and that is not the way we want to go, seeing that: "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God" (Heb. 10:31).
Free indeed, but where does that say anything about making your will free? Better yet, lets use your argument and say it does mean that...Are you now saying that those who lived before Christ never had a freewill? If you say they did then you contradict yourself. If you say they didnt, again, you contradict yourself because all mankind was given this "gift". Do you see how freewill is not even close to what Christ is talking about?
Ah now you can get somewhere with what Christ said above--you are indeed freed from the law of sin and death and then what? Where do we go from there? To a freewill? Now where do you see that in this verse? Nowhere. But later we are told that we are now in THE LAW of the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ. So freed from one law only to go into another law. So how free are we? A law of death, a law of life. No freedom there. And definitely nothing about freewill.
Where is the hint? Is it not the perfect law that will CAUSE this persons will to do something? If so then his will is not free. Let me show you how this perfectly matches Php 2:13
For it is God (and His perfect law, the law of liberty (the Christ in us)) who works in you (by His perfect law, the law of liberty (the Christ in us)) both to will and to do (not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer) of His good pleasure.
Still no freewill.
Did you not see what Christ said after all that "Ye have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you". Did that become null and void because of the other things He said? I think not. Yes we will all be saved or come to life but with a huge difference....AT FIRST, but in the end, after their judgment and they learn righteousness, all will be given the same rewards as those in the elect so that "God will be ALL in ALL".
I addressed this in the last post
John 16:27-28 . . .. I came out from God. I came out from the Father. . . .
Which one of them is the holy spirit?
ACTS 2:33 to 36, "Therefore having been EXALTED to the right hand of God, and having RECEIVED from the father the promise of the HOLY SPIRIT."
Yup "all things in heaven and earth are given to Me". Yes Jesus has/had to get everything from His Father, including His (the Fathers) spirit. Would it have been easier if Christ would have just said "I came out from God. I came out from the Father and He gave me His spirit". Shall i say of myself i came out from my (physical) father and Christ gave me His spirit. Am i now a trinity too? Oh wait Christ said "We would come" so that would be my father, me, Christ, the Father and the holy spirit---A quintet
[/quote]
The soul of Jesus became part of the Godhead? Wasnt Jesus the Lord thy God before His earthly ministry? Yes.
Close to God in various degrees? Where is the scripture for this? I know you are still a little new to Him saving all, but you still have some of those christian doctrines stuck in your belief. This one is actually pretty close to the rapture doctrine but not really.
If you noticed i havent really used many OT scriptures just for your pleasure. I did the same thing with ben masada since he didnt regard the NT as valid. I havent used the OT much with you. The thing is as i said before its all one. Its not two seperate books or collection of scrolls. Thats the problem with christendom today they do just as the jews--they dont follow the whole Word of God only part(s) of it. And verses like this means nothing
Psalms 119:160
The SUM of Thy word is truth
Jews say no, just the OT
Christians (and theyre bigger hypocrites than the jews) say yeah but not really. we dont need the OT. Forget that it is written "that these things were written for OUR admonition". Why? So we wouldnt make the same mistakes as them. But since they ignore the OT, i wonder if they have repeated the jews mistakes.
Of course i speak as a fool
AK4
Well-Known Member
?????? Huh?
What you quoted "me" from had nothing to do with who killed Jesus. It was about showing how the disciples thought they had "freewill" or will that could thwart what Jesus just prophecied what they would do. Thus showing they had no freewill, here is that excerpt
Free will? Where?
James certainly agrees with Scripture and Science that man has the ability "to will." But he also fully recognizes that there are two things that constantly oppose and change the will of man, so that it cannot be said that the will is free to will its own destiny for even a day or an hour.
What are these two factors over which man has absolutely no control whatsoever?
1. Factor number one--CIRCUMSTANCES: What did the Holy Spirit of God inspire (cause?) James to explain as a major factor in what determines the true outcome of mans will? Answer: "Whereas you know not what shall be on the morrow."
God changes the minds and wills of mankind around the world, a billion times a minute, through circumstances that "you know not" are actually the cause of your choices and your changed choices. We are often if not most of the time completely unaware of what actually caused us to do or say or think as we do.
How did all the disciples will to remain loyal to Jesus no matter what, at one moment in time, and in the next moment in time, they all changed their will to forsake Him? What changed their wills? Circumstances. One moment they were at ease and safe in the upper room, and at a later moment they were in the garden surrounded by Roman Soldiers! Fear was the circumstance that caused their (un-free) wills to change.
What that had to do with the arresting of Jesus is beyond me. And how that "i" am talking about the apostles but that puts me out of the NT is also mind boggling.
What argument are you saying is useless that you compare it to what you said above?
AK4
Well-Known Member
free spirit
Well-Known Member
I do not believe in the trinity as such, I believe that God presents himself to us in various forms: He is King and priest, he is God and Saviour and there is a Holy Spirit, because we can blaspheme against God, or against the Son, and we can be forgiven but if we blaspheme against the Holy Spirit we will not be forgiven. So they are one and the same, but they deal with us in various forms to make it easier for us to understand and to come closer to God.
SO, we must accept that Jesus the man died for our sins, we must accept that Jesus the man was God made flesh, we must accept that this man is also a priest of the order of Melchizedek, we must accept that this man was given the holy spirit, we must accept the the holy spirit of Jesus is God, i can go on to expose his various forms, for he is all that there is, or ever was. So the "trinity" for the wanting of a better word is a simple and imperfect exposure of God's multi functions.
We read in Mark 12:26 to 32, "But regarding the fact that the dead rise again, have you not read in the book of MOSES, IN THE PASSAGE ABOUT THE BURNING BUSH, HOW GOD SPOKE TO HIM, SAYING, I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB?
He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; you are greatly mistaken." And one of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that he had answered them well, asked him, what commandment is the foremost of all? Jesus answered, "The foremost is, HEAR, O ISRAEL! The Lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength. The second is this, you shall love your neighbor as yourself, there is no other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said to him, right teacher you have truly stated that he is ONE; and there is no one else besides him."
I hope this will put to rest for good the trinity question.
Last edited:
free spirit
Well-Known Member
I am only pointing out to you that they were never surrounded by Roman Soldiers.
A fact that you have missed like many churches before you. And if you have missed such a little thing, what else is there that you have missed?
Now about the free will question.
We respond to situation and circumstances, we do that according to our upbringing and values, we do what seem best for us, if you are a thief what seem best for you is to still. If you are honest you do not touch it or you will try to find the owner. but in both situations you have the ability to do the opposite, and that I call free will. So they can abandon themselves to do what they know is wrong, but they have been given the ability to change. and that I see as free will. Because
We read in Genesis 4:6 - 7, "Then the Lord said to Cain, why are you angry? and why has your countenance fallen? if you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? and if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, BUT YOU MUST MASTER IT." God would not lie to Cain, so Cain will was able to muster sin if he wanted to. that is free will I know it is.
Last edited:
MountainHumanist
Member
Are you guys fighting a war of colored words?
free spirit
Well-Known Member
A war it is, and we have just come full circle, with no apparent ground changing hands. I hope AK4 sees the light soon.
Read the last 5 post pages and let us know if we are making any sense.
free spirit
Well-Known Member
TO AK4
The arguments that I consider useless are the absence of free will, because you say it is a reaction to a situation brought about by God, and you will do what he has given you to do. so if God has given you to be a murderer you will be a murderer, despite the fact that God will never make you a murderer.
And the idea that in the end all will be made perfect, because as you say we did the evil deeds because he made us do them.
to me it is absurd and sinful even to contemplate such a thing.