Do you want the Ukrainian War to end today?

[Estro Felino]

I know what the reasoning is behind NATO, and I also know that in 2015 the Ukrainian government that they had no plans to join NATO. Then suddenly in 2019 they decided oh wait, yes we do. Five EU states are not members of NATO by the way.

The US has done anything to antagonize Russia.

They have taken any venue possible to isolate her.

Now Russia has welcomed the most Communist leader in the world.

Congratulations, America.

 

[Kathryn]

Putin is going to do what Putin is going to do. For goodness sake, he used to be a KGB officer! Let's not blame anyone else on his actions.

 

[Kathryn]

They have always prevented Russia from selling natural gas to Europe, because they want it.
They want it so they can sell it to Europe, themselves.
And gain billions.

Why Biden can't help Europe rid itself of Russian gas

"Governments don’t make deals," said the director of Tufts University's Climate Policy Lab.

www.politico.com

Many EU countries are already buying natural gas from Russia, and have BEEN doing so for many years. Germany is one of the largest importers of natural gas from Russia.

 

[metis]

Putin is going to do what Putin is going to do. For goodness sake, he used to be a KGB officer! Let's not blame anyone else on his actions.

And if he were to stop now his days would be numbered.

 

[Kathryn]

And if he were to stop now his days would be numbered.

Oh they're already numbered in my opinion.

 

[Estro Felino]

Many EU countries are already buying natural gas from Russia, and have BEEN doing so for many years. Germany is one of the largest importers of natural gas from Russia.

...despite the restless attempts of the United States to intimidate European countries and prevent them from buying gas from Russians.

 

[metis]

Oh they're already numbered in my opinion.

Better have patience because he's no dummy.

 

[Copernicus]

I know what the reasoning is behind NATO, and I also know that in 2015 the Ukrainian government that they had no plans to join NATO. Then suddenly in 2019 they decided oh wait, yes we do. Five EU states are not members of NATO by the way. Oh and that's four or five years, not nine years so I guess you're right that my post was nonsense! LOL

Since no agreement with Russia can be trusted to stick, it has become very likely that Ukraine needs to be brought into NATO as a guarantee of their future sovereign status. The Budapest Memo, signed by Russia, was a total failure. No big mystery as to why they want inside of NATO. Since Sweden will now be joining NATO along with Finland, the only EU nations outside of the alliance are Ireland, Cyprus, Malta, and Austria. Unlike Sweden, those countries have much less to fear from Russian expansionism, although there was a tense period at the end of WWII when Soviet troops threatened to remain in Austria. The point is that the existence of NATO as an alliance used to be questionable, as you seem to think it still is. Putin has breathed new life into it.

 

[Copernicus]

Now Russia has welcomed the most Communist leader in the world.

Congratulations, America.

Putin and Kim need each other. Putin is desperate to replenish his supplies of weapons, which Russia cannot manufacture quickly enough, thanks largely to Western sanctions. Kim is desperate for food and technical help with his missile and nuclear programs. Both are subject to harsh economic sanctions, but they can barter with each other. It won't really change much, since North Korea and Russia have already been doing that. The meeting was mainly for show, since Putin cannot safely travel outside of Russia and few other national leaders are willing to meet with him. Ditto for Kim.

 

[Kathryn]

Better have patience because he's no dummy.

I don't much care what happens to him or when for that matter. I don't think much about him to be honest.

 

[metis]

I don't much care what happens to him or when for that matter. I don't think much about him to be honest.

I care because all too many people like him can do major harm to innocent others.

 

[Estro Felino]

I care because all too many people like him can do major harm to innocent others.

Like during the Obama administration.
So much harm was done to the Libyans...that didn't deserve that.

 

[metis]

Like during the Obama administration.
So much harm was done to the Libyans...that didn't deserve that.

I was opposed to his bombing that was done in his first term especially both from a strategic and a moral perspective.

 

[Stevicus]

Related story: Paul will hold up any spending stopgap that includes Ukraine funding

Conservative Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) announced Wednesday he will hold up any funding bill to keep the government open past Sept. 30 if it includes funding for the war in Ukraine.

“Today I’m putting congressional leadership & @POTUS on notice that I will oppose any effort to hold the federal government hostage for Ukraine funding. I will not consent to expedited passage of any spending measure that provides any more U.S. aid to Ukraine,” Paul wrote on X, the social media platform formerly known as Twitter.

The country risks a shutdown if Congress doesn’t pass what’s known as a continuing resolution (CR) to keep the government open past Sept. 30.

The problem Schumer faces is that Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) hasn’t been able to muster up enough votes in the House to pass a CR and send it to the Senate.

The impasse in the House is holding up action in the Senate, giving Paul leverage to threaten Ukraine funding.

President Biden has requested $24 billion in security and humanitarian aid for Ukraine.

Senators are scheduled to receive a classified briefing on Ukraine at 5 p.m. Wednesday ahead of a meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky scheduled for 10 a.m. Thursday in the Old Senate Chamber.

 

[Estro Felino]

I was opposed to his bombing that was done in his first term especially both from a strategic and a moral perspective.

As a conclusion, Obama's decisions make Putin look like a saint.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I have decided to start this thread to understand American users' stance here.
Also because I talk to Europeans all the time, and they are very clear expressing their stance about the prosecution of this horrific war.
Most of them are against it. They hope for the end of this war, that the both parties stop fighting and strike a peace agreement.

1. I don't think anyone in his right mind is "pro war". I would assume the majority of people to be anti-war

2. your poll options are all loaded. no matter which one I pick, I'll always be forced to agree with their implications while not actually agreeing with them

Yes, I want the war to end. I also want justice. Ending the war by giving in to a bully is not justice. It's cowardice and surrendering. It's signaling bullies that they can do what they want AND get away with it. The outcome of that is 10 times worse then continuing to fight in defense against a bully

My stance: I want the war to end today, no matter who wins. Even if Russia has to give in, it doesn't matter. I want them to strike a peace treaty with the Ukrainians, today. No more soldiers need to die.

Put yourself in France, Belgium, Poland or any other of the invaded nations in 1942 and repeat that.
Would you say "I want the war to end no matter who wins"?


Was standing up to, and eventually defeating, Nazi Germany not worth the fight?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I would like to know why Russia can't keep those 4 regions annexed.

For the same reason you don't let a criminal gang keep the cars they've stolen.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Most EU countries have constitutions which repudiate the notion of war and consider peace the only instrument to settle territorial disputes.

Those laws are about STARTING wars of aggression. They are not about defending yourself from an invading aggressor.

Get a clue.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What about four referendums in the four regions? With the UN's supervision?

Are you having a laught?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I don't. But when the invaders ask you for something very little in exchange for peace...well...I think it's absolutely sensible to content them.

That kind of thinking is what made the Italian mob so big in the US that you couldn't even build a dog house without their explicit permission.

What you are talking about is peace. It's surrender to a bully who will just keep on bullying, knowing they will get away with it AND get what they want.

Say they do this, they surrender the four regions. Then 2 years down the line Russia invades again. Another region. And again. Another region. And again. Another region. And again. And there goes the entirety of Ukraine. Then it turns to their other neighbours. Another region. And again, anothe region,...etc

What will stop them? Nothing apparently if it were upto you. Where will it end? Nowhere if it were upto you. You'ld just drop your pants and bend over every single time.