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Does any supernatural god exist?

Does any supernatural god exist?

  • Certainly

    Votes: 14 34.1%
  • Certainly not

    Votes: 9 22.0%
  • Certainly don't know

    Votes: 18 43.9%

  • Total voters
    41

Banach-Tarski Paradox

Active Member
I don't find anything weird about Gods promise. He never fails to deliver, that's what all the other gods do

If I recall correctly, Satan is the judge of western culture, or something like that. (And by “Satan”, I mean Lucifer Himself, the devil from the west, the maximal evil, not some west african trixter mistaken for the western devil by criollo colonists.)
 

Soandso

ᛋᛏᚨᚾᛞ ᛋᚢᚱᛖ
That is not an error in the Bible.

See, none of you can find any errors with how the Bible is written.

Now if you can prove that God can’t turn a staff into a snake then you will have an actual error but saying you do not believe it is not an error.

Huh. What about the error where in Acts Judas uses the money he got from selling Jesus out to the Romans to buy the field of blood, but in Matthew he throws away the money to the priests where they instead use the money to buy the field of blood? Both of those things cannot be true
 

Banach-Tarski Paradox

Active Member
Of course, I believed in Satan and demons when I was still a Christian, and that was the final vestige of my indoctrination that I renounced. I still think it is ironic that I finally let go of this lingering belief while participating in a thread based on a claim that demons are real and their existence could be proven.
Every year, during Holy Week, violinists climb el cerro del Manzanillo on Thursday and Friday nights, and make pacts with the devil, exchanging their very souls to be good violinists.

Here’s a documentary by an anthropologist who made her career studying my wife’s culture and religion. (Catholic)

Bambuco Patiano - Bambuco Negro​

 
Is music a bad thing in your religion?

Music can be used to invoke evil spirits, which always destroy those who invited them into their lives. So music is bad when used in that way, but it is a beautiful thing when it's enjoyed in it's intended context which was given as a gift by God to His people to enjoy.

All music has a resonance frequency, which effects the body in many different ways depending on it's frequency. Some frequencies can heal disease while others can cause illness, so you need to be careful what you expose yourself to.
 

Banach-Tarski Paradox

Active Member
Music can be used to invoke evil spirits, which always destroy those who invited them into their lives. So music is bad when used in that way, but it is a beautiful thing when it's enjoyed in it's intended context which was given as a gift by God to His people to enjoy.

All music has a resonance frequency, which effects the body in many different ways depending on it's frequency. Some frequencies can heal disease while others can cause illness, so you need to be careful what you expose yourself to.

The devil makes me laugh.
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
So when you laugh... Do you say the devil made me do it lol
No that was Geraldine.
geraldine.jpg
 

Banach-Tarski Paradox

Active Member
So when you laugh... Do you say the devil made me do it lol

Well, I’ll split this up into two posts, but the party line does seem to be something like that.

(Translated using DeepL.)

Las almas de los violines 'negros'

Dr. Paloma Muñoz


(pages 155 - 156)

PDF: repositorio.unicauca.edu.co:8080/bitstream/handle/123456789/134/Las%20almas%20de%20los%20violines%20negros.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

Por eso en el Valle del Patía el violín y el diablo cohabitan transvalorados creativamente. Porque viven con ellos, en relaciones de uno y otro con los que interactúan. Elaboran e interpretan el violín, hacen música en una relación íntima espiritual, cósmica, con el alma de todos, en relación con la naturaleza, los seres no humanos, con el diablo, con los sonidos del agua, con los otros, en una relación musical colectiva, en la laboriosidad de su trabajo de ser agricultores. Soy agricultor ante todo, primero fui bailarín y luego pasé a ser músico y ahí me quedé componiendo canciones, dice Virgilio Llanos (2010), compositor de la agrupación Son del Tuno.

De ahí que, para algunos el diablo a veces es malo y a veces es bueno. "El diablo me da risa", nos comentó Lola Grueso, la maestra de la escuela Dos Ríos de Galíndez, Patía (2013), pero a medida que avanza en la conversación va modificando los conceptos:

El diablo es un espíritu tentador, hombre malo, se dedicó a enamorar a los hombres, pues ese enamoramiento de ofrecerles el poder porque el poder se usa en diferentes direcciones, hay el poder para servir y el poder para hacer el bien y el mal. En el poder del diablo es para hacer el mal. Se habló mucho del poder que tenía el diablo y en ese defecto, muchos hombres hicieron pacto con él, para hacer plata, fortuna, tener todo lo que quisieran a su alrededor. Por eso la historia del Patía está marcada y está como adornada de esa magia, de esos hombres como de esa época encantada diríamoslo así, en que en sitios especiales, ellos hicieron ese acuerdo con el diablo, en que el diablo les diera el poder de enamorar y conseguir las mujeres fueran soltera, casada o lo que fuera, de tener plata para hacer y deshacer, de tener fortuna, el de tener ganado, pues en la mayoría de casos estaba caracterizado por tener ganado, porque lo que les ha dado estatus al patiano ha sido el ganado, la vida del patiano ha estado enmarcada por eso.​

Y no duda en aclarar que el diablo es malo pues es el que llegó de Occidente, pero en la conversación con la maestra Lola se ilumina su rostro y su expresividad corporal se transforma como si se ‘desdoblara’ en emoción, cuando empieza a narrarnos sobre ese embrujo, el empautamiento, que le da la identidad al Patía y más aún, lo que para el Estado y para la sociedad en general es malo, es delito, históricamente a los patianos los han relacionado con el abigeato o robo de ganado, ella lo reivindica como un hecho bueno, el de tener ganado, una donación del diablo que les da identidad, afirma Lola Grueso.

Precisamente en esa transvaloración, el ganado en el Valle del Patía ha tenido un gran significado, porque tener ganado, ha dado estatus al patiano, por eso el descarne, el robo de ganado, el abigeato en la concepción jurídica del Estado es un delito, a diferencia del negro patiano: el tener ganado, comer carne, ha tenido y tiene grandes connotaciones y significaciones como actividad para el desarrollo económico, social y cultural, como actividad defensiva de la vida de la población patiana. El ‘descarne’, ‘comer ganado’, como actividad destinada a la consecución de carne por parte de aquellos que, frente a la ruptura del anterior sistema de relaciones adaptativas del proceso colonial, vieron en el descarne o en otras de las expresiones del llamado abigeato una salida viable por medio de la cual dar respuesta a sus necesidades. (Ussa, 1987)
 

Banach-Tarski Paradox

Active Member
That is why in the Patía Valley the violin and the devil cohabit creatively transvalued. Because they live with them, in relations of one and the other with those they interact with. They elaborate and interpret the violin, they make music in an intimate spiritual, cosmic relation, with the soul of all, in relation with nature, the non-human beings, with the devil, with the sounds of the water, with the others, in a collective musical relation, in the laboriousness of their work of being farmers. I am a farmer first and foremost, first I was a dancer and then I became a musician and there I stayed composing songs, says Virgilio Llanos (2010), composer of the group Son del Tuno.

Hence, for some, the devil is sometimes bad and sometimes good. "The devil makes me laugh," said Lola Grueso, the teacher of the Dos Ríos de Galíndez school in Patía (2013), but as the conversation progresses, she modifies the concepts:

The devil is a tempting spirit, bad man, he dedicated himself to enamoring men, well that enamoring of offering them power because power is used in different directions, there is power to serve and power to do good and evil. In the devil's power is to do evil. Much was said about the power that the devil had and in that defect, many men made a pact with him, to make money, fortune, to have everything they wanted around them. That is why the history of the Patía is marked and is like adorned with that magic, of those men as of that enchanted time we would say it this way, in which in special places, they made that agreement with the devil, in which the devil gave them the power to fall in love and to get the women to be single, married or whatever, to have money to do and undo, to have fortune, to have cattle, because in the majority of cases it was characterized by having cattle, because what has given status to the patiano has been the cattle, the life of the patiano has been framed by that.​

And she does not hesitate to clarify that the devil is bad because he is the one who came from the West, but in the conversation with the teacher Lola her face lights up and her corporal expressiveness transforms as if it 'unfolded' in emotion, when she begins to narrate us about that spell, the empautamiento, What for the State and for society in general is bad, it is a crime, historically the Patianos have been related to cattle rustling or cattle theft, she claims it as a good thing, to have cattle, a gift from the devil that gives them identity, says Lola Grueso.

Precisely in that transvaluation, cattle in the Patía Valley has had a great significance, because having cattle has given status to the Patiano people, that is why cattle rustling, cattle theft, cattle rustling in the legal conception of the State is a crime, unlike the black Patiano people: having cattle, eating meat, has had and has great connotations and meanings as an activity for the economic, social and cultural development, as a defensive activity for the life of the Patiano people. The 'fleshing out', 'eating cattle', as an activity aimed at obtaining meat by those who, faced with the rupture of the previous system of adaptive relations of the colonial process, saw in the fleshing out or in other expressions of the so-called "abigeato" a viable way out through which to respond to their needs. (Ussa, 1987)

Vaqueria


 
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Tinkerpeach

Active Member
Huh. What about the error where in Acts Judas uses the money he got from selling Jesus out to the Romans to buy the field of blood, but in Matthew he throws away the money to the priests where they instead use the money to buy the field of blood? Both of those things cannot be true
There is no error there whatsoever.

It was Judas' money, and it was the priests who used the money he returned to them to buy the field. They bought the field because they could not accept blood money and return it to the temple treasury.

In essence, the priests bought the field on behalf of Judas.
 
The devil makes me laugh.
There's nothing funny about Him, He is the most powerful creature ever created. He has gifts which are unique to Him, He is the most gifted and talented musician in the universe and He uses music to lead people to hell.

Before He was cast down to the earth, Lucifer was the music leader of the Angelic quire in heaven, this is why every single Superstar Musician an Performing Artist sell their soul to Satan. In return He gives them the talent they need to become Superstars.

**mod edit**
 
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Banach-Tarski Paradox

Active Member
Maybe a little biblically inspired music is in order;

Here’s a religious tune that actually made it into a thesis for the title of Historian, representing afropatiana religion with the lines:

Stolen from Africa, brought to America.

Fighting on arrival, fighting for survival.


 

Ajax

Active Member
The Bible doesn’t begin with the Spirit of God hovering over a gently flowing stream (that is later) or a peaceful, calm sea (again, later). It begins with the Spirit of God hovering over a double image of water. Two words are used to describe this chaotic, pre-created sea: “the deep” (tehom) and “the waters” (mayim).

Mayim is just the plural form of the word for “water.” However, tehom will have a negative connotation almost every other time it appears in the Bible [see for yourself]. That is why it is sometimes translated in English as “the abyss.” The abyss is where the floodwaters come from in Genesis 7. It is where Job’s leviathan lives (Job 41). It is the place the Israelites fled through to escape the Egyptians (and then the place where the Egyptians were drowned when they tried to follow (Exodus 15). It is the waters of the grave that live beneath the earth (Psalm 71).

So the “primeval sea” is the uncreated state, the chaos that preceded God’s ordering of creation as described in Genesis 1. These are the waters of uncreation where no life can flourish, no meanings can take root, no order can take shape. It is the opposite of the good place God is about to bring about as the first chapter of Genesis unfolds.

God is never depicted doing things unilaterally. It was the Israelites who couldn't fight against chariots of iron, not God. Why couldn't they? Because they got scared and didn't trust that God would empower them to do even this. The book of Joshua ends with the land not being fully conquered in spite of God's commandment, and therefore the remaining nations serving as a thorn in Israel's side from then on. God's promise not being entirely fulfilled due to the unfaithfulness of Israel rather than because of God being weak is a theme throughout the whole Bible... This is the point behind the blessing and the curse in the Law.

Anything else?
Much more.... Copying and pasting from a silly apologetic site (Before Creation There Was... Water?) is hardly enough.
I suppose you understand what you wrote, right? That in the chaos, before any creation had taken place, before even light or the earth had taken shape, there were waters! We don't care if life could flourish in these waters. The fact remains that there’s no suggestion that God created the primordial waters. He and they were already there, before creation. Who created them then? And of course the ancient Hebrew conception of the universe, contains two errors, the second being that for the firmament (dome) to cover the whole earth, the earth must have been flat.

As for God and the iron chariots, read the verse please..."And the Lord was with Judah, and he took possession of the hill country, but he could not drive out the inhabitants of the plain, because they had chariots of iron."...What is the point of God helping Judah, if He can not even overcome chariots?
I thought you said...
Thats probably why they are called miracles and only something God can do.
Hilarious...
 

Tinkerpeach

Active Member
Much more.... Copying and pasting from a silly apologetic site (Before Creation There Was... Water?) is hardly enough.
I suppose you understand what you wrote, right? That in the chaos, before any creation had taken place, before even light or the earth had taken shape, there were waters! We don't care if life could flourish in these waters. The fact remains that there’s no suggestion that God created the primordial waters. He and they were already there, before creation. Who created them then? And of course the ancient Hebrew conception of the universe, contains two errors, the second being that for the firmament (dome) to cover the whole earth, the earth must have been flat.

As for God and the iron chariots, read the verse please..."And the Lord was with Judah, and he took possession of the hill country, but he could not drive out the inhabitants of the plain, because they had chariots of iron."...What is the point of God helping Judah, if He can not even overcome chariots?
I thought you said...

Hilarious...
You need to think of a broad canvas laid down by God before he painted His masterpiece.

That is what the chaos refers to.

As for the battle they could have won because God was with them as He stated yet they lost faith that God would give them victory so He didn’t help them.

These are not really difficult concepts to understand.
 
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