Does Atheism Lead to Immoral Behavior?

[Subduction Zone]

..but that is not true, is it.
It is not illegal in the West to have a mistress.

Acts do not have to be illegal to be immoral. I could call you all sorts of name. I could impugn your character. Those acts would not be moral but they would be legal.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It is common sense.
A society that tolerates unmarried cohabitation, encourages
sexual promiscuity, which leads to trouble.

I have already been informed that rape is common in the US by @SkepticThinker
.. and I am not talking about within marriage.

It is probably far more common in Muslim countries that you realize. Many Abrahamic religions make all to often make the victim the guilty party. Women are shamed into not reporting rape in those circumstances.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

What you describe is not reality.
I would understand if I got beaten up, for sleeping with somebody's wife.
A lot of gun crime in the US is due to "domestic" issues.

I don't drink, and avoid contact with women ..
I talk to women in appropriate settings, but if I wanted a sexual relationship,
I would seek a Muslim woman who was looking for the same.

I noticed that you didn't respond to @Polymath257's comment that a wife is not property. Why did you omit that in your reply?

A wife is NOT property. And going to the law to protect is not impotence.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Women are shamed into not reporting rape..

..so you don't think that they would mention it to their parents?
I doubt that.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

It is probably far more common in Muslim countries that you realize. Many Abrahamic religions make all to often make the victim the guilty party. Women are shamed into not reporting rape in those circumstances.

I was raised in a conservative evangelical Christian environment where women and girls were expected to be seen but not heard, and they were expected to only speak to a man if he spoke to them. It was also taught that it was the wife's duty to give her husband sex whenever he wanted it, and if she refused, then he had a moral right to force her, as well as the wife's duty to give birth to as many children as the husband wanted. My husband's grandfather told him shortly before our wedding that he had a moral right and responsibility to discipline me if I refused to obey his authority. He told my husband that he could knock some sense into me if it was necessary. My husband and I really upset his grandparents and his parents by omitting the word "obey" from our wedding vows. In fact, his grandfather was infuriated with him and insisted that our marriage was invalid before God because we omitted "obey" from our wedding vows. His father complained about it for a while and made some disparaging remarks about me, prompting my husband to warn him that if he ever treated me in such a manner again, we would cut him out of our lives. My father-in-law thought that my husband and I wouldn't be married for long because he believed that a Christian marriage would fail if the wife refused to submit to her husband. My husband and I have been married for 30 years and have nine children together (five daughters, two sons, and two miscarriages). My husband has always treated me as his equal. He has never tried to control me and tell me what to do, nor has he ever considered himself above me because he is a man. In my opinion, a wife being required to submit to her husband is patriarchal, misogynistic bull**** and should be outright rejected and spoken out against. No woman should live under the thumb of a man.

 

[ChristineM]

..so you don't think that they would mention it to their parents?
I doubt that.

I take it you are not a woman and have never been raped? You are welcome to doubt what you want but be assured, most rapes are never mentioned to anyone for fear of being blamed or shamed.

 

[ChristineM]

I was raised in a conservative evangelical Christian environment where women and girls were expected to be seen but not heard, and they were expected to only speak to a man if he spoke to them. It was also taught that it was the wife's duty to give her husband sex whenever he wanted it, and if she refused, then he had a moral right to force her, as well as the wife's duty to give birth to as many children as the husband wanted. My husband's grandfather told him shortly before our wedding that he had a moral right and responsibility to discipline me if I refused to obey his authority. He told my husband that he could knock some sense into me if it was necessary. My husband and I really upset his grandparents and his parents by omitting the word "obey" from our wedding vows. In fact, his grandfather was infuriated with him and insisted that our marriage was invalid before God because we omitted "obey" from our wedding vows. His father complained about it for a while and made some disparaging remarks about me, prompting my husband to warn him that if he ever treated me in such a manner again, we would cut him out of our lives. My father-in-law thought that my husband and I wouldn't be married for long because he believed that a Christian marriage would fail if the wife refused to submit to her husband. My husband and I have been married for 30 years and have nine children together (five daughters, two sons, and two miscarriages). My husband has always treated me as his equal. He has never tried to control me and tell me what to do, nor has he ever considered himself above me because he is a man. In my opinion, a wife being required to submit to her husband is patriarchal, misogynistic bull**** and should be outright rejected and spoken out against. No woman should live under the thumb of a man.

Sorry there is no WINNER frube.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

A society that is based on belief, and the death penalty for playing around with women, will have a lower rate of sexual misdemeanour.

That's true for parking violations as well. The death penalty for an expired meter or double parking would probably lower their rates of occurrence as well.

Let's take the issue of the latest "Trump" case. A woman claims that she has been raped decades later.. It might be that Trump seduced her, and she was involved in a "one off".

Or it might be that he raped her. Why don't we let a jury decide? Let's put a dozen impartial citizens in a courtroom, present the evidence, and let them decide which it was. Spoiler: $5 million dollar judgment.

It is not illegal in the West to have a mistress.

We like it like that. Do you recommend the death penalty in your perfect world?

If it is "wrong", why does the law not reflect it?

And the plot sickens. Great idea. Let's have finger wagging religious types decide how others should live. Let's call it Sharia law.

I for one, prefer not to live in a violent society.

Just give the death penalty for violence and you'll have the paradise you envision. Of course, tying your wife down and forcing yourself on her should not be considered violence. That's love, not war.

Adultery often leads to violence .. sometimes fatal.

So does spousal abuse.

I don't drink, and avoid contact with women

Why even get out of bed?

 

[muhammad_isa]

You are welcome to doubt what you want but be assured, most rapes are never mentioned to anyone for fear of being blamed or shamed.

Makes little sense to me .. I feel sure that my daughters would tell their parents if anything bad happened to them.
What would they have to feel guilty about?

 

[muhammad_isa]

We like it like that..

..and I envisage the US as a nation that is declining into decadance and violence.
It don't look good to me.

Why even get out of bed?

I have never liked the attitude of many men .. who think it's
fair game to "have" a woman on a night out .. no thanks.

 

[ChristineM]

Makes little sense to me .. I feel sure that my daughters would tell their parents if anything bad happened to them.
What would they have to feel guilty about?

Thousands of years of misogyny, bigotry, shaming, religious intolerance, male dominance, disbelief , etc. Whether it makes sense or not to you as a male with no experience is kind of irrelevant.
I think it more likely that is what you would like to think your daughter's would do. But again you have no experience.

 

[Tinker Grey]

I have never liked the attitude of many men .. who think it's
fair game to "have" a woman on a night out .. no thanks.

And I don't like the attitude of men who think a woman is a thing to be had.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That is untrue.
A society that is based on belief, and the death penalty for playing around with women,
will have a lower rate of sexual misdemeanour.

Will it, though?

When someone is raped in such a society, she'll know that if she comes forward and can't get a conviction for her attacker, there's a good chance that the court will deem her rape "consensual sex" and she'll face the death penalty herself.

Do you think this increases or decreases the likelihood that she'll report the crime?

And if the victim is unlikely to report the crime, do you think this emboldens potential rapists or not?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I envisage the US as a nation that is declining into decadance and violence.

It is. But draconian religious law isn't the answer. It's part of the problem. The religious are fueling the tearing of the American social fabric with their war on women's reproductive freedoms, war on LGBTQ, "pornographic" book bannings, and war on drag queens.

It don't look good to me.

Me, neither. I haven't even visited since 2014, and I'm an American citizen. Making it more religious is not an answer. The answers are right in front of us. Humanism is a constructive, life-affirming worldview that promotes tolerance and reason over religious alternatives.

I have never liked the attitude of many men .. who think it's fair game to "have" a woman on a night out .. no thanks.

But you think it's your business. You don't say, "It's not right for me." You say it's not right for him and should be criminalized with draconian punishment attached. That's a great illustration of the difference between an Old-Testament-like Abrahamic worldview and humanism, which allows you the freedom to decide such matters yourself. It might hurt you, but it doesn't hurt your neighbors for you to step out, so why should they have a vote in your choices or you in theirs?

 

[muhammad_isa]

And I don't like the attitude of men who think a woman is a thing to be had.

Exactly..

 

[muhammad_isa]

Will it, though?

Yes.

When someone is raped in such a society, she'll know that if she comes forward and can't get a conviction for her attacker, there's a good chance that the court will deem her rape "consensual sex" and she'll face the death penalty herself.

Why?

 

[muhammad_isa]

You say it's not right for him and should be criminalized with draconian punishment attached.

I am not judging the behaviour of an individual..
I am saying that if adultery is legal in society, then it encourages promiscuity.
..which as we can see, leads to more sexual misdemeanours.

It might hurt you, but it doesn't hurt your neighbors for you to step out, so why should they have a vote in your choices or you in theirs?

Don't understand.

 

[Polymath257]

..so you don't think that they would mention it to their parents?
I doubt that.

I wouldn't. Who wants to talk about such things with their parents?

 

[Subduction Zone]

..so you don't think that they would mention it to their parents?
I doubt that.

They would very likely be the last people that they told.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Exactly..

That is your attitude. Why are you agreeing with someone pointing out that it is wrong?