Does Atheism Lead to Immoral Behavior?

[Subduction Zone]

That's true for parking violations as well. The death penalty for an expired meter or double parking would probably lower their rates of occurrence as well.

Brilliant! You just solved New York Cities parking problems.

Or else we could just sentence the cars to "death". A quick trip to the crusher. A last minute search by the police might be a good idea before it was crushed.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I wouldn't. Who wants to talk about such things with their parents?

"such things"? Who would you want to tell?
Family is very important for Muslims .. maybe you don't have good relations..

 

[Subduction Zone]

"such things"? Who would you want to tell?
Family is very important for Muslims .. maybe you don't have good relations..

It sounds as if it is more important to the male Muslims than the female ones.

Intimidation, death threats stalk gang-raped Muslim women after India's religious riots

Three years after religious riots in India, Muslim women who reported being gang raped during the violence are still waiting for their cases to be investigated while facing death threats and harassment for speaking out, Amnesty International said.

www.reuters.com

One more:

How #MeToo Empowered Muslim Women to Speak Out on Sexual Abuse - The Crime Report

Muslim women are increasingly willing to address a subject that was once hidden by taboo and shame in their community, says filmmaker Nadya Ali. She discusses her new documentary and the issues it raises in a candid conversation with TCR.

thecrimereport.org

 

[Polymath257]

"such things"? Who would you want to tell?
Family is very important for Muslims .. maybe you don't have good relations..

No, it is simply not something I would discuss with my parents. Nor is it anything my wife would discuss with her parents.

But, as You say, neither of us have very good relations with our parents. With is, again, an issue you seem to ignore as a possibility.

And, frankly, if it is a society that assumes that marriage gives the right to take sex whenever the man wants, why should she tell anyone? She knows she won't be listened to.

 

[muhammad_isa]

But, as You say, neither of us have very good relations with our parents. With is, again, an issue you seem to ignore as a possibility..

I'm not saying it's not a possibility .. what about orphans?

What I am saying, is that I don't believe the majority of women would not tell anybody,
if they were attacked by a man.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why?

Because of the punishment you're suggesting.

If a woman has been raped and reports it, but the police or courts decide she hasn't been raped, then - in the eyes of the authorities - she's effectively admitted to having extramarital sex.

What punishment are you suggesting for extramarital sex?

 

[Polymath257]

I'm not saying it's not a possibility .. what about orphans?

What I am saying, is that I don't believe the majority of women would not tell anybody,
if they were attacked by a man.

They would be most likely to tell another woman friend.

 

[Polymath257]

"such things"? Who would you want to tell?
Family is very important for Muslims .. maybe you don't have good relations..

I'm sure ALL Muslim families always get along and never have any disagreements.

 

[Polymath257]

Saudi Arabia has general crime rates 100 times lower than that of America. In 1981, the rates of forcible rape were 0.33 out of 100,000. Badr-el-din Ali suggests this may be due to Saudi Arabia having a synnomic state of culture, where everyone uncompromisingly shares the same values
Rape_statistics - Wikipedia

My guess is that the 'sharing of values' isn't as well distributed as the authorities would like people to believe. It's more likely that people are afraid to report crimes and think their concerns won't be treated well by the authorities.

 

[Polymath257]

I'm not talking about rates .. I'm talking about the institution itself.

Rape isn't a thing that should be an everyday occurrence.
The charge of rape is thrown around in the US, as if it is something that happens regularly in society.

Unfortunately, it is something that happens very regularly in society. A very large fraction of women have been raped. Usually, they keep it secret because they don't believe their story will be believed. That concern is primarily because of attitudes like those you have shown.

 

[Polymath257]

..and what is an adult supposed to act like .. impotent?

Those that default to violence are the most impotent of people.

 

[F1fan]

My guess is that the 'sharing of values' isn't as well distributed as the authorities would like people to believe. It's more likely that people are afraid to report crimes and think their concerns won't be treated well by the authorities.

Exactly my thought. We know of Saudi Arabia's human rights violations, especially against women. If a woman was raped and came forth, yet the rapist denied it, who would authoriotioes believe? What would be her punishment for "falsely claiming a rape"? Death?

 

[Valjean]

"such things"? Who would you want to tell?
Family is very important for Muslims .. maybe you don't have good relations..

"One in 5 women and one in 16 men are sexually assaulted while in college (i). Rape is the most under-reported crime; 63% of sexual assaults are not reported to police (o). Only 12% of child sexual abuse is reported to the authorities (g). The prevalence of false reporting is between 2% and 10%."

https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/publications_nsvrc_factsheet_media-packet_statistics-about-sexual-violence_0.pdf

Even in liberal, western societies, rape isn't something most women report.

The importance of family is inversely proportional to social and economic security. In authoritarian or impoverished societies, security depends on team effort. Individuals are vulnerable without family backup. Individualism and self-sufficiency are discouraged in such societies.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

"such things"? Who would you want to tell?
Family is very important for Muslims .. maybe you don't have good relations..

Or maybe my family is bad, so I can't have good relations.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Because of the punishment you're suggesting.

If a woman has been raped and reports it, but the police or courts decide she hasn't been raped, then - in the eyes of the authorities - she's effectively admitted to having extramarital sex.

It is not for the "police or courts" to decide that she is guilty..
There is no punishment for the woman if it is true that he forced her and overpowered her, which may be proven by her screaming and shouting for help.

Futhermore, there needs to be 4 witnesses, to accuse a person of adultery .. but not rape.


Zina became a more pressing issue in modern times, as Islamist movements and governments employed polemics against public immorality. In recent decades several countries passed legal reforms that incorporated elements of hudud laws into their legal codes, and many modern Islamists have also disregarded the condition of strict evidence requirements.
Zina - Wikipedia

 

[F1fan]

It is not for the "police or courts" to decide that she is guilty..
There is no punishment for the woman if it is true that he forced her and overpowered her, which may be proven by her screaming and shouting for help.

And if there are no witnesses that heard her? And if she is in so much trauma and fear she can't scream?

So you can't determine it is true, so is there punishment? You don't seem willing to take he word for it.

Futhermore, there needs to be 4 witnesses, to accuse a person of adultery .. but not rape.

Well that makes adultery easier to get away with, doesn't it? How often do people having sex or committing rape do it in front of witneses?

Zina became a more pressing issue in modern times, as Islamist movements and governments employed polemics against public immorality. In recent decades several countries passed legal reforms that incorporated elements of hudud laws into their legal codes, and many modern Islamists have also disregarded the condition of strict evidence requirements.
Zina - Wikipedia

 

[muhammad_isa]

Well that makes adultery easier to get away with, doesn't it?

Yes.
..but if you are "caught"..

I don't think the idea is to kill as many people as possible.
We just want people to think twice, before being involved in such behaviour.

 

[Valjean]

It is not for the "police or courts" to decide that she is guilty..
There is no punishment for the woman if it is true that he forced her and overpowered her, which may be proven by her screaming and shouting for help.

"TUERKHEIMER: That's right. Experts know that there are so many reasons why victims may not fight their socialization, which, particularly for girls, may lead someone not to fight. There's the kind of habit that many people develop, particularly if they are the victims of childhood sexual abuse, that may lead them to what seems like passivity. There's the freezing mechanism, the sort of immobility that neuroscientists understand is a common response to assault. And then there's self-preservation, which is that sometimes it can feel safer and it can be safer not to fight back."

https://www.npr.org/2023/05/02/1173477695/why-are-sexual-assault-accusers-frequently-asked-did-you-scream

Women usually do not scream, and often don't fight back.
Threat or assault elicits a Fight, Flight, or Freeze response. Women frequently freeze,

 

[Audie]

Exactly my thought. We know of Saudi Arabia's human rights violations, especially against women. If a woman was raped and came forth, yet the rapist denied it, who would authoriotioes believe? What would be her punishment for "falsely claiming a rape"? Death?

I would not set foot in one of those countries

 

[Audie]

"TUERKHEIMER: That's right. Experts know that there are so many reasons why victims may not fight their socialization, which, particularly for girls, may lead someone not to fight. There's the kind of habit that many people develop, particularly if they are the victims of childhood sexual abuse, that may lead them to what seems like passivity. There's the freezing mechanism, the sort of immobility that neuroscientists understand is a common response to assault. And then there's self-preservation, which is that sometimes it can feel safer and it can be safer not to fight back."

https://www.npr.org/2023/05/02/1173477695/why-are-sexual-assault-accusers-frequently-asked-did-you-scream

Women usually do not scream, and often don't fight back.
Threat or assault elicits a Fight, Flight, or Freeze response. Women frequently freeze,

I froze. Like my 97 lbs could fight anyway.