Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I said "that makes no sense to me." I did not say it was not possible. Anything is possible unless you can prove it is impossible. Perhaps it doesn't make sense to me because of my preexisting belief that humans were created for a purpose so I have a bias.In what way doesn't it make sense exactly? You've already accepted that it is as possible. I think you mean it is an uncomfortable and disconcerting concept (and I agree) but that is just something we need to deal with. I don't think it's healthy to try to pretend negative possibilities or realities simply don't exist.
By purpose, I meant they serve a purpose because they are used for certain purposes. I did not mean they have fundamental purpose as I believe humans have. Humans have some of the same purposes as other animals; for example, procreation and continuation of the species. That is our purpose as a physical being, but we have another purpose as a spiritual being, a purpose other animals do not have. I believe only humans have an eternal soul that continues on after the physical body dies, so the purpose of this life is to acquire the spiritual qualities (qualities of character) that we will need in the next life.In what way do they have a purpose (in the grand context we're talking about here)? There are things we use them for but that isn't the same as them having a fundamental a purpose. Also, humans are animals so why wouldn't we have the same kind of purpose as (other) animals, albeit maybe on a different scale?
No, we cannot know, we can only believe. People believe various things about the purpose of our lives, none of which can be proven.I don't think we can know, even if (we think) we want to. That was the whole point of my initial post. Lots of people believe, assume or claim different fundamental purposes for humanity (or a subset of it) but they're all ultimately speculation (or lies) based on their individual preferences or motives and thus no more (or less) worthy than any other human ideas.
I believe that the Essence of God (God's intrinsic nature) is unknowable and fundamentally beyond our understanding. That concept can be found all throughout the Writings of Baha'u'llah. There is no point worrying about what we cannot know, and I don't think we need to know the Essence of God in order to believe that God exists. According to the Abrahamic traditions God has certain attributes such as Unchanging, Impassable, Infinite, Omnipresent, Self-Existent, Self-Sufficient, Immaterial, Sovereign, Eternal, Holy, All-Powerful, All-Knowing, All-Wise, Infallible, All-Good, All-Loving, Gracious, Merciful, Just, Righteous, Forgiving, Patient. , but that is all we can ever know about God.I don't think we can know anything about God. Indeed, I think the concept is typically constructed in that way, that's why several religions literally have some kind of concept of God being unknowable or fundamentally beyond us. That is precisely why faith is a key requirement. It isn't about answering the big questions, it's about closing them off and not worrying about them.
I believe even though I cannot know in the sense that my belief can ever be proven to be true.Again, you believe that but you can't know. It is perfectly possible that there is something (God or otherwise) out there that needs or uses human belief or faith in some way, and it may or may not be for good reasons.
Yes, there could be aliens from another planet who sent men we believe are Messengers in an effort to deceive humans. Anything is possible unless it can be proven impossible.
What we end up believing is what makes the most sense to us. Christians believe in things that Baha'is do not believe in, like Satan and and that heaven and hell are literal places we go to when e die.
Religion has been used for both good and bad purposes, for selfish and selfless purposes.I agree, but I do think this is one of the intentions for the creation of religions and that can often play a practical role in supporting a good society. The problem is that, like any tool or system, it can also be misused for harmful or selfish purposes too.
I cannot speak for anyone else, but I never felt a need to believe that, I just came to believe it as a teaching of my religion. I cannot say what I would believe if I had never stumbled across the Baha'i Faith. I never thought about the purpose of life before that.That is still essentially the same arrogance though. Raising humans as being somehow more important than anything else essentially comes from the same place as assuming there must be some kind of fundamental purpose to our existence. We feel the need to believe that because the alternative is depressing.
The alternative, that there is no purpose for our existence, is depressing, if you think about it. If there is no purpose then we may as well just eat, drink, and be merry. Why even care about altruism if we are not accountable to anyone higher than ourselves. We would just be doing good deeds out of the goodness of our hearts, and I doubt as many people would be as good as they are now.
Animals do these things out of instinct, not as a free will choice, and that is the difference between humans and animals. Only humans have free will to choose between good and bad behavior.I don't think that is true. Many animals do horrific things for no apparent benefit. Of course, they generally aren't consciously aware of that but act out of instinct that is just misplaced in context (for example, domestic cats will kill small birds and rodents and bring them home as instinctive hunting behaviour, even though it isn't necessary for them to do so).
Since humans have an animal nature they also act on instincts, but humans also have a spiritual nature and free will to choose, so they have the capacity to rise above their animal instincts. If humans did not have that capacity to choose they would not use any discretion in their sexual behavior, they would have sex with anyone who comes along.Humans have similar instincts and we still act on them (more often than we realises). We uniquely also have the creative intelligence to wilfully act against those instincts or indeed follow through with them but in expanded and developed ways. The consequences are different (and often more significant) but as a core principle, we're really no different to the cat proudly dropping a dead bird on the doormat.