Does Atheism Lead to Immoral Behavior?

[Sgt. Pepper]

Time and again, historical references in the Bible have been accurately proven.

Time and again, historical references in Greek mythology have been accurately proven.

Greek Mythology.com | Places

Fall of Troy: the legend and the facts

6 Famous Greek Mythology Locations

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Does this mean that all the stories in Greek mythology are true and that the gods and goddesses of Olympus, as well as the Titans. are real deities?

 

[muhammad_isa]

I've already answered this, plus you should know. You file a complaint with the police. If there is sufficient merit to the complaint, and investigation follows..

What are you talking about?
If a woman accuses her husband of "marital rape", and she has evidence to prove that she said "no", but he carried
on anyway, HE IS GUILTY.

Are you telling me that he can defend himself by accusing his wife of provoking him?
Is there such a law? That says it is illegal for a woman to seduce her husband?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

What are you talking about?

I answered your question. Don't you recognize that as such? I wrote that "I would hope that anybody guilty of that crime [false accusation of rape] is prosecuted for it," and you asked, "how can that occur?" So I told you: " If there is sufficient merit to the complaint, and investigation follows, and if a winnable case can be made, and indictment follows followed by a trial and a verdict." If she's guilty and you have evidence, prosecute her.

Maybe you shouldn't have truncated it when quoting it, nor added periods I didn't write.

If a woman accuses her husband of "marital rape", and she has evidence to prove that she said "no", but he carried on anyway, HE IS GUILTY.

Yes, he can be convicted of rape if there is enough evidence to convince a jury that he did.

Are you telling me that he can defend himself by accusing his wife of provoking him?

Now it's my turn to ask what you are going on about. Why would you think I believed that, much less said it? There is no defense to forcing sex.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..There is no defense to forcing sex.

Precisely..
Men are weak .. they are easily seduced, in a marital bedroom.

It is plausible that a woman could seduce her husband, and frame him for rape.
Of course, in a society that does not outlaw sex outside of marriage, there is no other option left.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Time and again, historical references in Greek mythology have been accurately proven.

Greek Mythology.com | Places

Fall of Troy: the legend and the facts

6 Famous Greek Mythology Locations

12 places in Greece that gave life to Greek mythology

Does this mean that all the stories in Greek mythology are true and that the gods and goddesses of Olympus, as well as the Titans. are real deities?

So what in the Scriptures, stated as fact, have been disproven?

 

[F1fan]

Of course I care.
The husband is somebody's son, and the wife is somebody's daughter.
It is better not to involve the police, if possible .. I'm sure they would agree.

That would depend on the wife and if the husband apologizes and never assaults her again. Men who are willing to rape a woman (even if his wife) has some emotion al problems and should seek therapy to better manage them. But if there continues to be abuse and assault a wife should seek legal remedies, as that is a consequence for criminal behavior.

If the son is known to be abusing his wife, and likely children if they are in the house, then the family should intervene as best they can, and suggest therapy. It is a tough situation. A female friend of mine dealt with a highly abusive husband and it is embarrassing for all. She endured years of abuse before the breaking point, and he was arrested in the house, while the neighbors watched. She did all she could to get him help. he ended up being forced to get therapy as part of his deal. Even after the divorce and therapy he continued to be abusive. She let me hear a voicemail that he he left, but did not realize he did not disconnect. I heard his yell at their children in the car in ways that would likely have resulted in him not being allowed to be alone with them any more. She wanted me to hear it because she wasn't sure if she should report it to the courts or not. I don't remember what she did, but I know he still had shared custody.

This is a person problem. Both men and women can be abusive and suffer poor emotional intelliegnce. My complaint with your attitudes is that it allows and justifies abuse by husbands. Your attitude does not support mental health, nor safe environments for wives and children.

They don't want trouble, and family feuds and what have you.

Family fueds? Sounds like a rampant lack of maturity. Is this a problem among Muslims?

That is a stupid question .. we are all capable of evil.

Capable is irrelevant. It's a matter of who is willing. Do we see Jews, Hindus, Christians, atheists doing suicide missions against innocent people? No. It seems to be a Muslim problem of evil. If it makes you feel better it was Christians who committed the Holocaust. This is why humans need a set of principles that value human beings as deserving of basic human rights. Your attitude denies women that respect. If you really believed in a God why aren't all Muslim men bending over backwards to stay on God's good side?

Have you no idea at all?
We have been through all of this already.

I know, and you have no civilized answer to why women can be "legally" assaulted and abused in marriages by men who supposedly believe in God.

If any of my woman folk were in fear of violence from their husband, I would advise them to leave
and seek divorce.

What about the men? Should they not seek mental health care? Don't you see them abusing their wives as a problem? You're always advising women to resolve the problem when it's the men who are the problem.

 

[F1fan]

What are you talking about?
If a woman accuses her husband of "marital rape", and she has evidence to prove that she said "no", but he carried
on anyway, HE IS GUILTY.

Remember what you said before about evidence? You were indignant that a wife dare video and record abuse by her husband.

Are you telling me that he can defend himself by accusing his wife of provoking him?

Always the woman is at fault. So Muslim men are easily provoked? Would you suggest women avoid marrying any Muslim man until they can be sure they are mature and stable?

Is there such a law? That says it is illegal for a woman to seduce her husband?

Where did this come from? It sounds like it is you being defensive against criminal charges for acts you did.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Where did this come from? It sounds like it is you being defensive against criminal charges for acts you did.

I have not committed any act.
It's quite simple .. the charge of "marital rape" is bad.
It does not give men the respect they deserve.

 

[muhammad_isa]

You're always advising women to resolve the problem when it's the men who are the problem.

That is the agenda of satan .. destroy the men, and the women follow.

 

[muhammad_isa]

A female friend of mine dealt with a highly abusive husband and it is embarrassing for all. She endured years of abuse before the breaking point, and he was arrested in the house, while the neighbors watched. She did all she could to get him help. he ended up being forced to get therapy as part of his deal. Even after the divorce and therapy he continued to be abusive. She let me hear a voicemail that he he left, but did not realize he did not disconnect. I heard his yell at their children in the car in ways that would likely have resulted in him not being allowed to be alone with them any more. She wanted me to hear it because she wasn't sure if she should report it to the courts or not. I don't remember what she did, but I know he still had shared custody.

What has the above got to do with the legal definition of marital rape?

 

[F1fan]

I have not committed any act.

You'd better keep it that way, you're in the UK, not Afghanistan.

It's quite simple .. the charge of "marital rape" is bad.

Guess what, so is marrital rape. Why not acknowledge this yourself if you really care for women?

It does not give men the respect they deserve.

Who says men deserve respect when they don't respect their wives, and by default, women in general?

That is the agenda of satan .. destroy the men, and the women follow.

This is what a non-Muslim would say about Islam if they wanted to insult Islam. I literally laughed out loud when I read this. This is such a cartoonish thing to say. You can't admit that some Muslim men have emotional problems? If not, then why would a wife seek a divorce due to mistreatment?

 

[F1fan]

What has the above got to do with the legal definition of marital rape?

That was not what I was describing or arguing. I offered an example of how difficlt it is for women even in a nation that values their basic rights. Women have to put up with a great deal with abusive husbands. Marriage is a big risk, partners can hide quite a bit from the other until after the papers are signed. Marriage is easy, divorce is hard.

 

[muhammad_isa]

You can't admit that some Muslim men have emotional problems? If not, then why would a wife seek a divorce due to mistreatment?

That applies to human beings in general, and not just Muslims.

Women in a society where marriage is "optional" can't necessarily seek divorce,
because they are not legally married.

 

[muhammad_isa]

That was not what I was describing or arguing. I offered an example of how difficlt it is for women even in a nation that values their basic rights.

I know that it can be hard for women. It is better for them if they marry a religious person in the first place.
It is possible that a person changes over time, and becomes abusive .. but less likely
than marrying a "charmer" who isn't interested in religion.

Women have to put up with a great deal with abusive husbands. Marriage is a big risk, partners can hide quite a bit from the other until after the papers are signed. Marriage is easy, divorce is hard.

The law is often an ***. Divorce should not be hard.
A woman should have autonomy over their bodies .. they should be entitled to a quick, no-fault divorce.
No ceremony or court needed.

 

[F1fan]

That applies to human beings in general, and not just Muslims.

But you are presenting different, less moral, attitudes for Muslims. So we are questioning why Islam has less progressive morals for the 21st centural.

Women in a society where marriage is "optional" can't necessarily seek divorce,
because they are not legally married.

Assuming they are allowed to by the men in their community. I find it odd that a married woman isn't allowed certain rights that are common in the first world, but are allowed the right to file for divorce.

I know that it can be hard for women. It is better for them if they marry a religious person in the first place.

Not a Muslim man if they have your beliefs. What you describe is vastly worse than religious men who extend women basic human rights.

It is possible that a person changes over time, and becomes abusive .. but less likely
than marrying a "charmer" who isn't interested in religion.

Life is dynamic, but that's why it is importnat to have good emotional intelligence skills, and access to mental health services.

The law is often an ***. Divorce should not be hard.

Yet it is. It depends on accests and especially if children are involved.

A woman should have autonomy over their bodies .. they should be entitled to a quick, no-fault divorce.

Even autonomy against rape by her husband? Are you actually changing your tune here? Are you finally understanding that it is right and moral to respect women in regards to their bodies and can refuse sex?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Men are weak .. they are easily seduced, in a marital bedroom.

That's weakness? That sounds like a good marriage to me.

It is plausible that a woman could seduce her husband, and frame him for rape.

Agreed, but so what? Why are you only interested in that possibility. It is also plausible that a man has raped a woman.

I have not committed any act.

Nobody knows what you've done, but I'm pretty sure that you don't treat your wife like your equal, and pretty sure that you don't see it that way, either, since your values and sense of right and wrong are not mine. I can't imagine anyone who hasn't forced sex on his wife taking your position and so forcefully for so long. Why would you defend men like that if you weren't among them? I don't think that you have a credible and acceptable answer for that, and Idon't expect one.

It's quite simple .. the charge of "marital rape" is bad. It does not give men the respect they deserve.

And now a little surer that I was before I read that. What respect does a rapist deserve?

I know that it can be hard for women. It is better for them if they marry a religious person in the first place.

You're a religious person, and you think that you have the right to rape your wife. I'm an atheistic humanist and consider that immoral. That kind of thing doesn't happen in this home.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Agreed, but so what? Why are you only interested in that possibility. It is also plausible that a man has raped a woman.

No, that's a nonsense.
A man can mistreat his wife, yes.

What you mean is, that the woman has unwanted attention by her husband.
In a society where sexual intercourse is allowed by adults who consent, the only way to determine
what would be considered rape, is if either of them did not consent. What other way is there to determine it?

You have agreed that women could frame men, and you say "so what"?
I do not see such a law as desirable. A law where a man could be imprisoned for life, due to him
sleeping with his wife when she didn't feel like it.

Why would you defend men like that if you weren't among them?

Is that the best argument you can come up with?

 

[F1fan]

Agreed, but so what? Why are you only interested in that possibility. It is also plausible that a man has raped a woman.

No, that's a nonsense.
A man can mistreat his wife, yes.

So a husband wants sex but his wife doesn't want to, but he disregards this and forces himself sexually on his wife, and she is crying and telling him to stop, would this not be mistreatment•? Or is this acceptable to your mind?

• This is called rape in the UK and other first world nations even if you refuse to recognize this definition selfishly.

 

[Audie]

⅝So what in the Scriptures, stated as fact, have been disproven?

Your so- called "flood", though
of course you choose to pretend otherwise

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

that's a nonsense.

Your argument keeps getting more bizarre. I wrote, " It is also plausible that a man has raped a woman," and you said that that was nonsense.

What you mean is, that the woman has unwanted attention by her husband.

More than that. I mean that a man is capable of raping his wife as the law defines rape.

In a society where sexual intercourse is allowed by adults who consent, the only way to determine what would be considered rape, is if either of them did not consent. What other way is there to determine it?

Agreed. I don't see your point.

You have agreed that women could frame men, and you say "so what"?

Yes. You seem to think that that possibility means that all rape accusations fit in that category. It doesn't.

I do not see such a law as desirable. A law where a man could be imprisoned for life, due to him sleeping with his wife when she didn't feel like it.

OK. If he forced her to have sex when she said no, he belongs in prison.

Is that the best argument you can come up with?

I wrote, "Why would you defend men like that if you weren't among them?" It's a good question that deserved a convincing answer if you had one, but all you offered was deflection. You don't need to answer. In fact, it would probably be in vain if you did, since I can think of no reason for a man to defend such behavior except a selfish one, and apparently, neither can you, or we'd have gotten it instead of a deflection.