Does Atheism Lead to Immoral Behavior?

[Polymath257]

I never said that .. and again, you know it.
I am saying that such a law gives power to women UNDULY .. in a way that encourages corruption.
..using a husband's virility, as a reason for imprisoning him is immoral.

It isn't virility that makes a man take a woman by force. IIt is disrespect of women.

Of course, there are cases of bad men treating their wives badly.
Stay away from them, I say.

Let me ask. Can a woman get a job so she can pay for getting away from such a man? What options does she have if the man is abusive?

Perhaps you can ask me what I think of a man before you marry him?
No? I thought not.
I know, I know .. all Muslim men are monsters like me.

It is certainly a good thing to get to know a prospective spouse before marriage.

For that matter, it is a good thing to have sex before marriage as well. Just to make sure the couple is compatible.

Guess what.
I have similar thought to the JW's, who are aware that the world is heading for an apocalypse.

You merely wish to spread your atheism, with legal adultery.

The law should have no say if all people involved are giving informed consent. Sex is just one nice way people can interact with each other.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

You are the only member who doesn't believe that rape of a wife is mistreatment. Or that a wife can be raped at all since the wife has suspended all rights to body autonomy. That is clear in the posts that reveal your poor judgment about human rights for women.

Mostly financial and legal rights between two people. It's not a license to rape your wife to civilized people.

Your interpretation of Islamic law threatens women and their well-being. Secular law intends to protect the basic rights of all individuals. Your interpretation of Islamic law is illegal in secular nations.

Earlier in this thread, it was suggested that a man can spank his wife like a naughty child.

"The "beating one's wife" is illegal, unless like spanking a child for being naughty.
I suppose you'll be telling me that it is psychological violence."

Read the rest of the disturbing post here.

 

[Polymath257]

If I say that there should be a crime of "marital rape" to protect women from abuse,
this implies that the institution of Islamic marriage is not enough to protect her.

..it also means that a woman that is displeased with her husband, can refuse him his conjugal rights
for an extended period of time, which might lead to a situation in which she is abused ..

Whoops. Why would it lead to a situation where she is abused? If he is unhappy with her (and how much sex she wants to give), he should divorce her.

and then she wants him imprisoned.
..doesn't look right to me.

If he abused her, he should go to prison.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The point of marriage is to allow two people who have mutual love and respect to form a household.

What does that mean?
A piece of paper is not necessary to do that .. is it?
If so, then why?

 

[Polymath257]

You are talking nonsense.
Criminals should be apprehended .. you know that.
Having sexual intercourse with your wife should not be a criminal offence.

It should if it was against her will.

Naturally, a reasonable husband will leave their wife alone, if they are in a tiff, or what have you.
..yawn..

And an unreasonable husband can do whatever he wants?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

If your views are the ones God promotes, then women, at least are better off without.

As an ex-Christian, a survivor of childhood abuse, and a rape victim at the age of 17, I am undoubtedly better off without the biblical God in my life. I can say with genuine honesty that renouncing my belief in God was the best decision that I've ever made for my mental health and emotional well-being.

 

[Polymath257]

What does that mean?
A piece of paper is not necessary to do that .. is it?
If so, then why?

The piece of paper allows inheritance, insurance, hospital visitation, rights to determine course of medical treatment if one is unable, etc.

It isn't about the sex. It is about all the rest of the benefits a society gives to married people.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Let me ask. Can a woman get a job so she can pay for getting away from such a man? What options does she have if the man is abusive?

Women can work, yes.
In some countries, of course, not even men can get a job.
There might be 50% of adult men unemployed.

Sex is just one nice way people can interact with each other.

Oh, no.
Sexual relationships should not be casual.
Men are naturally furious with women who mess about.
It can even lead to murder.

 

[Polymath257]

No it isn't.
It's about a man having sex with his wife, when she said "no" .. the technical citing of a man raping his wife..

Yes, having sex with someone when they said 'no' is the definition of rape.

 

[Polymath257]

Women can work, yes.
In some countries, of course, not even men can get a job.
There might be 50% of adult men unemployed.


Oh, no.
Sexual relationships should not be casual.
Men are naturally furious with women who mess about.

Garbage. Men should learn how to control themselves and give their wives equal status.

I note that a man can have more than one wife. Can a woman have more than one husband? Why or why not?

It can even lead to murder.

Then the man would be guilty of murder as well.

 

[Polymath257]

As I've already said, in a traditional society, it is not.
It is not a question of consent, but one of reasonable behaviour.

And we have pointed out that it *should* be about consent.

Forcing someone to have sex when they don't want to *at the time* is unreasonable and is mistreatment and rape.

Rape is when a woman is attacked by a predator that they are not married to.

That is one possibility. But the *reason* it is rape is that she didn't give consent.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Whoops. Why would it lead to a situation where she is abused? If he is unhappy with her (and how much sex she wants to give), he should divorce her.

Yes .. that is an option.
..but not an option for a man to take lightly.
It is not responsible to divorce a woman for a trivial reason .. like being unable to satisfy him sexually.
If she is continually abusive, it is a good reason, yes.

If he abused her, he should go to prison.

..and round and round we go.
You: "sex is just one nice way people can interact with each other."

It don't look "nice" to me.
..that your wife wants you in prison for having sex with her when she wasn't in the mood.
Why not just buy a doll?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Garbage. Men should learn how to control themselves and give their wives equal status.

The best way to control yourself, is to keep away from bad women.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Then the man would be guilty of murder as well.

That's right .. bang, bang .. happens all the time in the US.

 

[muhammad_isa]

That is one possibility. But the *reason* it is rape is that she didn't give consent.

Traditionally, a marriage contract implied consent.
If either partner no longer wants to give consent, they should terminate the marriage.

I know modern secular law is different. Marriage is no longer in fashion.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

The best way to control yourself, is to keep away from bad women.

The best way for a man to control himself is to keep it in his pants if his wife isn't in the mood for sex.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The best way for a man to control himself is to keep it in his pants if his wife isn't in the mood for sex.

Mmm .. it's a pity that a man doesn't have a switch, that his wife can turn on and off as she desires.

 

[Polymath257]

Mmm .. it's a pity that a man doesn't have a switch, that his wife can turn on and off as she desires.

If a man is so unable to control himself that he forces his wife to have sex when she doesn't want to, then there is something wrong with that man.

Let me give you a scenario. Let me know who you think is doing wrong and why.

A man and his wife are at home one evening. He says he would like to have sex and she says that she doesn't feel like it that night. He gets angry and pins her down and forces her to have sex.

1. Did he mistreat her?

2. Did she mistreat him?

3. Is this something the law should be concerned about?

4. Did either of them disrespect the marriage? If so, who?

Now, compare this to the following scenario:

Two people who have known each other as friends decide to spend the night together. They talk about what each would like and how it would affect their relationship and decide to have sex. Both enjoyed themselves.

Can you honestly say that the second couple should be put to death and the first couple did nothing the police should be concerned about?

 

[Polymath257]

Traditionally, a marriage contract implied consent.

Continual consent even years after the initial agreement. That is unreasonable.

If I consent to play tennis once with you, that doesn't mean I will automatically want to play tennis next year. Or that I will want to play every time you want to.

If either partner no longer wants to give consent, they should terminate the marriage.

What if they only want to not have sex one night? Should they terminate the marriage for that reason? Or, in that case, is it reasonable for the other partner to force them to have sex?

I know modern secular law is different. Marriage is no longer in fashion.

Many of the people in this thread are married. But we don't take it to mean automatic consent for the rest of our lives.

 

[Polymath257]

Yes .. that is an option.
..but not an option for a man to take lightly.

I agree. But if he feels like he will become violent and force her to do something against her will, then he should leave the situation.

It is not responsible to divorce a woman for a trivial reason .. like being unable to satisfy him sexually.
If she is continually abusive, it is a good reason, yes.

How was *she* abusive? She merely said no.

..and round and round we go.
You: "sex is just one nice way people can interact with each other."

And I stick by that evaluation.

It don't look "nice" to me.
..that your wife wants you in prison for having sex with her when she wasn't in the mood.
Why not just buy a doll?

Huh? The person who didn't listen to his partner and forced her to have sex when she didn't want to is the one treating another as a doll. If he wants someone who is 'always interested', buy an AI robot.