Does Atheism Lead to Immoral Behavior?

[Tinker Grey]

I was replying to @Polymath257 , with his criticism of my stereotyping of men and women.

..taken to extreme, we have political correctness that girls should play with tin soldiers,
and boys play with dressing up barbie dolls.

Nobody is saying "should"; just "may"

 

[SkepticThinker]

I was replying to @Polymath257 , with his criticism of my stereotyping of men and women.

Yes, I know.

..taken to extreme, we have political correctness that girls should play with tin soldiers,
and boys play with dressing up barbie dolls.

I used to play with marbles, toy cars and G.I. Joe actions figures. I didn't like dolls so no Barbies for me, thanks. I wasn't being politically correct when I was a seven years old girl, rather, I was just playing with the toys I enjoyed playing with.

What's wrong with a boy playing with a doll, for instance? Do men not participate in raising their own children where you're from?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Nobody is saying "should"; just "may"

You'd be surprised .. depends on which country you live in..
Nobody would have thought that a married woman was responsible for paying bills,
until the late 20th. century.
It seems "equality" comes at a price.

 

[Tinker Grey]

You'd be surprised .. depends on which country you live in..
Nobody would have thought that a married woman was responsible for paying bills,
until the late 20th. century.
It seems "equality" comes at a price.

Children playing with toys is different than adults paying bills. The price of being an adult is ... being an adult.

 

[F1fan]

That is correct.
The Qur'an is explicit about men not keeping wives against their will.

Yet forcing sex would be "keeping" her, albeit temporarily and as long as the man could force sex to his satisfaction.

If a husband wants sex, and he starts forcing her against her will, will he allow her to retreat away from him and leave the house, or is she held until he has finished his sexual act?

The Quran has no authority over anyone UNLESS the fallible mortal, like yourself, decides it does. That authority only applies to you and those who believe as you do, and ends there. So it's irrelevant what the Quran or any other book says, it is YOU that is assuming this power of absolute knowlegde despite being a flawed mortal who is prone to poor judgment. YOU are accountable to forcing a wife to have sex against her will, and you hide your accountability behind the Quran. That you can't recognize an indeceny of your belief shows us the Quran and Islam does not make bad people good. It makes bad people worse because they find justification to cause harm.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..it's irrelevant what the Quran or any other book says, it is YOU that is assuming this power of absolute knowlegde despite being a flawed mortal who is prone to poor judgment.

I believe that the Qur'an is from G-d.
I do not make it up myself.

YOU are accountable to forcing a wife to have sex against her will, and you hide your accountability behind the Quran..

I don't know what's the matter with you.
I'm not forcing anybody to do something against their will, so I am not accountable for it.

 

[F1fan]

I believe that the Qur'an is from G-d.

Yes, it's what you, a fallible and flawed human, believes. You could be mistaken. You aren't a god. So acting on ideas you only believe is true doesn't mean it is absolutely true. Morals apply beyond your belief.

I do not make it up myself.

Why do you need to follow others, can't you think for yourself?

I don't know what's the matter with you.

I can think for myself, and you get frustrated with questions.

I'm not forcing anybody to do something against their will, so I am not accountable for it.

Why so defensive if you are correct? I'm trying to find out when a wife's rights begin and end where your beliefs stand. You insist a wife has the right to leave the house and get a divorce. If a husband starts forcing himself on his wife for sex and she gets scared and wants to leave the house, is it too late? Has his right to sex already started and her right to leave is suspended until he finishes?

 

[Zwing]

What does that mean?

I assume that it means he believes in the propriety of gender roles. I do, to an extent, as well.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I can think for myself..

Are you the only person capable of that?

If a husband starts forcing himself on his wife for sex and she gets scared and wants to leave the house, is it too late? Has his right to sex already started and her right to leave is suspended until he finishes?

Now, you're being ridiculous. Quelle surprise.

 

[nPeace]

No. I resist belief by faith, and not just belief in gods.

No. You deny any knowledge that would jeopardize your belief system.

And nobody has any knowledge about any god that deserves to be called truth.

You say this because you think everyone is like you?
This is a clear demonstration of irrational emotional... um... babble?
Spoken like a true atheist - the original. Psalms 14:1

What you have are fervently held but insufficiently justified beliefs

You evidently are speaking of yourself. Not me.

The critical thinker doesn't (and generally can't) decide what to believe.

That does not describe you then. You just said... I resist belief by faith, and not just belief in gods. nobody has any knowledge about any god that deserves to be called truth.
What are you then?

That's how faith works. Pick an idea you like, believe it, and call it truth.

You clearly have no clue what faith is.

That's what this atheist will not allow himself to do.

To the contrary, the atheist does exactly that. The true atheist, that is.

By families I assume you mean families raising minor children. No, I do not think they make strong communities. Strong communities are the result of a culture of tolerance, a common vision, an adequate economy, and the like. I wish them luck, but such families have little effect on me or my life. My family and household are my wife and me and our dogs, we're very happy, and we don't take our moral advice from holy books or any other source that our consciences.

In any event, you didn't address what I identified as moral failings in the teachings of Jesus, namely that Jesus says marriage to a divorcee is adultery, a man who finds a woman attractive has committed adultery with her, and that one must cut off his hand or pluck out his eye if it offends. Here's the humanist version: Marriage to a divorce is perfectly fine, finding strangers sexually alluring is perfectly fine, and never pluck out eyes or cut off hands unless medically necessary.

Sorry. I forgot to address the lusting part.
I'll do that later.

I addressed the the marriage to a divorced woman.
How do you say, I did not address that?
I said one at a time, so let's deal with that. What did I not address, concerning marrying a divorced woman?

 

[F1fan]

Are you the only person capable of that?

Between the two of us it seems so. You have decided that your interpretation of the Quran is an absolute truth and authority. But you can’t explain if you admit you could be mistaken in your beliefs. Why avoid the question?

Now, you're being ridiculous. Quelle surprise.

Are you unable to answer my question? It could happen in a marriage and there must be an answer.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Are you unable to answer my question? It could happen in a marriage and there must be an answer.

Perhaps you have a problem with your memory.
The question has been answered multiple times.

You attempt to make a mockery of the institution of marriage.
You do not think it should imply consent in law.

A bad husband is a bad husband.
If a violent assault has been committed, he should be punished for it.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I think that the word "obey," which implies that a woman must obey her husband, is nothing more than archaic patriarchal male chauvinistic bull***t and should be omitted from conventional marriage vows. My husband and I agreed to omit the word from our marriage vows, and we have been married for thirty years. We've always had a loving relationship and a strong marriage. He treats me as his equal, and we honor and respect each other. He has never thought of himself as superior to me because he is a man, nor has he ever tried to tell me what to do or control me. We are equal in our loving marriage.

Neither God nor obey made an appearance in my vows. I wanted vows that were meaningful and we were committing to.

We've been together for 27 years (married for 17), for what it's worth.

 

[F1fan]

Perhaps you have a problem with your memory.
The question has been answered multiple times.

You attempt to make a mockery of the institution of marriage.
You do not think it should imply consent in law.

A bad husband is a bad husband.
If a violent assault has been committed, he should be punished for it.

I've read through all the comments. I have not seen any answer to the question i asked and it has conflicted rights. The right of a husband to demand sex and the right of the wife to leave the house. Do you agree that a husband can’t hold the wife if she wants to leave after he has demanded sex and thinks he's entitled at that moment?

 

[YoursTrue]

Perhaps you have a problem with your memory.
The question has been answered multiple times.

You attempt to make a mockery of the institution of marriage.
You do not think it should imply consent in law.

A bad husband is a bad husband.
If a violent assault has been committed, he should be punished for it.

Let's say that's true, that a husband who commits a violent assault against his wife should be punished for it, would you say that it happens, that a husband who commits a violent assault against his wife is punished by sharia law?

 

[muhammad_isa]

The right of a husband to demand sex and the right of the wife to leave the house..

You are talking nonsense, as far as I'm concerned.
What you are describing has nothing to do with the demanding of sex.
You are describing a married couple who are at each others throats.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Let's say that's true, that a husband who commits a violent assault against his wife should be punished for it, would you say that it happens, that a husband who commits a violent assault against his wife is punished by sharia law?

An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.

 

[YoursTrue]

An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.

The point I'm making is that it's not always carried out, is it?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I can't tell if you do it on purpose, but you
are quite consistent about asking questions
so vague / non specific that there is no
possible answer.
How deep is deep?
You want one explanation for every organism
buried at every depth?

This is a " win" for you?

The thing about " slow moving" ice age
doesn't even make sense. An ice age does not
move.

Animals freeze every winter.

The thing about comets?
What nut thinks comets has anuthing to
do with frozen squirrels?

Or that permafrost is somehow about " flood"?

Such is the level of thniking behind your
beliefs.

So you can’t answer the question.

But you know for sure what didn’t cause it.

In the absence of any other plausible explanation, to adamantly discard the Noachian Deluge out of hand as an explanation (on top of all the other evidences supporting it), and attempt to belittle those who do accept it, reveals a bias that borders on hubris.

I hope we meet, one day… I’ll forgive you.

 

[Polymath257]

Personally, I find the idea that men behave like women, and women behave like men
more repugnant.

You mean, when women act like humans?

There are very few jobs that actually require a specific type of genitals.