Does Atheism Lead to Immoral Behavior?

[ImmortalFlame]

..but really you are not .. you are saying that a woman who says "no" to her husband,
but he has sex with her anyway should be imprisoned for rape.

Yes, because they would be a rapist.

That undermines the institution of marriage ..

Funny how you think a husband being imprisoned for rape undermines the institution of marriage, but A MAN RAPING HIS WIFE isn't undermining it.

Weird.

and that is what underpins the 2 parent family.

So, what underpins the 2 parent family, to you, is that abuse is ignored?

Funny us, thinking that the basis of a family should be love and mutual respect. Those things that cannot POSSIBLY be present in ANY relationship in which one partner rapes the other.

How silly of us.

Most married people have arguments with their spouses.

Do most married couples abuse each other?

..but women know very well who "wears the trousers" in the West.
That is against what G-d has ordained, and marriage is becoming redundant.
One parent families are not "bad" as such, but they are not desirable, as an alternative
to the 2 parent family.

Even if that 2 parent family consists of at least 1 rapist, according to you.

It is better, both for the children and the adults, that a family consist of a single parent than a family consists of one parent and one rapist.

 

[muhammad_isa]

It is better, both for the children and the adults, that a family consist of a single parent than a family consists of one parent and one rapist.

What are you trying to say .. that more and more men are becoming rapists?
Is that what is happening to society?

 

[PureX]

What happens to a bad husband?
Nobody will want to marry him.
He will die lonely.

No one will know he is a bad husband until they have already married him.

If he is that bad, he will get caught for other offences, no doubt.

That is very poor reasoning.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

What are you trying to say .. that more and more men are becoming rapists?
Is that what is happening to society?

Are you so incapable of reading and responding to what I have written that you have to make up things in your head that I have never written?

What is the Islamic belief regarding dishonesty?

Let us try another simple question (that you probably won't answer):

Which undermines the institution of marriage more:
1) a husband who disrespects and abuses his wife so much that he is willing to rape her?
Or:
2) a wife who is willing to have her husband imprisoned or punished for raping her?

1 or 2?

 

[SkepticThinker]

..but really you are not .. you are saying that a woman who says "no" to her husband,
but he has sex with her anyway should be imprisoned for rape.
That undermines the institution of marriage .. and that is what underpins the 2 parent family.

Most married people have arguments with their spouses.
..but women know very well who "wears the trousers" in the West.
That is against what G-d has ordained, and marriage is becoming redundant.
One parent families are not "bad" as such, but they are not desirable, as an alternative
to the 2 parent family.

Rape undermines the institution of marriage.

 

[SkepticThinker]

What are you trying to say .. that more and more men are becoming rapists?
Is that what is happening to society?

A single parent family is better than a two parent family in which one parent is a rapist.

 

[muhammad_isa]

No one will know he is a bad husband until they have already married him.

That is very poor reasoning.

I don't think so.
Most of the time police are called to domestic violence, in which the perpetrator is known by the police,
and has a record of violence.

..to suggest that Muslims rape their wives because they are Muslims is sheer nonsense.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

..to suggest that Muslims rape their wives because they are Muslims is sheer nonsense.

It sure is a good thing nobody has said that, then.

 

[muhammad_isa]

What is the Islamic belief regarding dishonesty?

It's not acceptable.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

It's not acceptable.

So stop being dishonest.

Stop ignoring my questions. Stop selectively quoting me. Stop making up stuff I have never written or implied and ascribing it to me.

Does a man raping, assaulting or sexually abusing his wife undermine the institution of marriage more or less than a wife who wants to report her husband for genuinely raping, assaulting or abusing her?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Rape undermines the institution of marriage.

Yeah .. it's just becoming a pointless tit-for-tat.
I am in favour of the institution of marriage,
and believe that that is the best protection for a woman from evil.

You are happy with consensual sex.
Bye then.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Yeah .. it's just becoming a pointless tit-for-tat.
I am in favour of the institution of marriage,
and believe that that is the best protection for a woman from evil.

You are happy with consensual sex.
Bye then.

Your total inability to address the issue is very noted.

I can only assume you have realized that the logical conclusion of your positions is that you are effectively an apologist for rape. Since you cannot admit that, because it would mean admitting that your positions are immoral and you would have to admit to being wrong, you run and hide.

To be clear: I do not believe you are a rape apologist. Or, at least, you don't want to be. You know it is immoral, but you realize there is cognitive dissonance between the religious views you claim to hold and the morality you know to be actually true and just.

I hope you have at least learned this, and that you continue to think about it going forward.

Go in peace and love.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I couldn't agree more,
..but a tug-of-war over kids is not in their interest.

A child growing up in a household with a rapist isn't exactly in their best interest either.

 

[Zwing]

Does Atheism Lead to Immoral Behavior?

No, human nature leads to immoral behavior.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yeah .. it's just becoming a pointless tit-for-tat.

That's usually what happens when someone refuses to answer questions and attempts to insert words into other peoples' mouths.

I am in favour of the institution of marriage,
and believe that that is the best protection for a woman from evil.

Who is it that women needs this protection from, by the way? Could it be men?

I'm fine with marriage as well, if everyone involved is a consenting adult and all are treated equally.

You are happy with consensual sex.
Bye then.

Yes, I'm quite happy with consensual sex and quite unhappy with rape. As I think most moral people are.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I can only assume you have realized that the logical conclusion of your positions is that you are effectively an apologist for rape. Since you cannot admit that, because it would mean admitting that your positions are immoral and you would have to admit to being wrong, you run and hide..

I'm still here, and refer you to the mulitple posts I have made in the last 60 pages.

 

[PureX]

I don't think so.
Most of the time police are called to domestic violence, in which the perpetrator is known by the police,
and has a record of violence.

..to suggest that Muslims rape their wives because they are Muslims is sheer nonsense.

Husbands have the right to expect to have sex with their wives. They do not have the right to engage in any kind of physical force, verbal threats of force, verbal humiliation, or other abusive behaviors to gain the fulfillment of that expectation.

To me, the word "rape" is meaningless within the terms of a marriage. What is at issue is sexual assault, sexual abuse, violence of any sort, verbal threats and abuse, and so on. Because marriage or no marriage, these are not acceptable behaviors among and between human beings. And I have no doubt that Muslim men refrain from, or engage in these behaviors just as do the men of any other religion or nationality.

 

[F1fan]

I have already answered many, many times..
Abusing one's wife is not acceptable in Islam.

You don’t consider rape as abuse. Islam leads to immoral behavior.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I'm still here, and refer you to the mulitple posts I have made in the last 60 pages.

Then tell me, right now, that rapists and abusers deserve punishment - even if they are husbands abusing/raping their wives - and that wives should have the protection of the law against husbands who genuinely rape and abuse them.

There is no ambiguity in this statement, no "gotcha", no games. I am just asking you to make a clear and unambiguously morally good statement.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Husbands have the right to expect to have sex with their wives. They do not have the right to engage in any kind of physical force, verbal threats of force, verbal humiliation, or other abusive behaviors to gain the fulfillment of that expectation.

To me, the word "rape" is meaningless within the terms of a marriage. What is at issue is sexual assault, sexual abuse, violence of any sort, verbal threats and abuse, and so on. Because marriage or no marriage, these are not acceptable behaviors among and between human beings. And I have no doubt that Muslim men refrain from, or engage in these behaviors just as do the men of any other religion or nationality.

I agree with all that.