Does Atheism Lead to Immoral Behavior?

[ADigitalArtist]

Me too. I just ... can't even ...

This guy probably saw or read "Not Without My Daughter" and thought it was a tragedy they escaped.

 

[SkepticThinker]

This guy probably saw or read "Not Without My Daughter" and thought it was a tragedy they escaped.

Most likely.

 

[muhammad_isa]

We're talking about women being abused by their husbands.

Do you think women being abused by their husbands should have legal recourse and/or protection, yes or no?

Note that I am talking EXPLICITLY ABOUT ABUSE. This includes sexual, physical and psychological abuse. We are talking about a husband deliberately and knowingly HARMING HIS WIFE.

Give a straight answer to this incredibly unambiguous question.

I have already answered many, many times..
Abusing one's wife is not acceptable in Islam.

 

[muhammad_isa]

And, if she dislikes him, she should divorce him. But this isn't what I am talking about. I am talking about the husband forcing himself on his wife even if she doesn't want to have sex at that time. In my scenario, she did NOT seduce him. He forced her. Stop changing the topic.

I'm not changing the topic.
I am merely pointing out the possibilities of corruption,
when one has a system of law that no longer values marriage as the institution it used to be originally.

 

[Polymath257]

I have already answered many, many times..
Abusing one's wife is not acceptable in Islam.

So, forcing her to have sex against her will is unacceptable in Islam?

 

[Polymath257]

I'm not changing the topic.
I am merely pointing out the possibilities of corruption,
when one has a system of law that no longer values marriage as the institution it used to be originally.

The possibility seems trivial compared to the harm done by an abusive husband.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I have already answered many, many times..
Abusing one's wife is not acceptable in Islam.

So, do you think women being abused by their husbands should have LEGAL RECOURSE AND/OR PROTECTION, yes or no?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Men also have a tendency to blame women for everything, so that goes both ways..

I agree .. but G-d knows that, and he has prescribed balance and fairness,
in the institution of marriage .. and divorce.

 

[muhammad_isa]

So, do you think women being abused by their husbands should have LEGAL RECOURSE AND/OR PROTECTION, yes or no?

I have already told you that I'm not interested in discussing with rude people.
You ask a question in which I have made myself very clear already.

Is this how you talk to your vicars and priests?
..most likely..

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'm not changing the topic.
I am merely pointing out the possibilities of corruption,
when one has a system of law that no longer values marriage as the institution it used to be originally.

So we shouldn't have laws then? Because well, you know, corruption.

 

[muhammad_isa]

So, forcing her to have sex against her will is unacceptable in Islam?

Of course!

 

[SkepticThinker]

I agree .. but G-d knows that, and he has prescribed balance and fairness,
in the institution of marriage .. and divorce.

Not as you've described it here. The god you follow has set up a chauvinistic and misogynistic system that is prejudicial towards women.
Thankfully, I see no reason to believe the god you worships even exist in the first place. But if he did, he'd be immoral.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I have already told you that I'm not interested in discussing with rude people.
You ask a question in which I have made myself very clear already.

Is this how you talk to your vicars and priests?
..most likely..

Yep. I would speak the same way to "vicars and priests" given that they're just people like I am.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The possibility seems trivial compared to the harm done by an abusive husband.

It would do, to you, because you see things in terms of "sex".
I see things in terms of family life.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I have already told you that I'm not interested in discussing with rude people.
You ask a question in which I have made myself very clear already.

No, you have not. It's a yes or no question, and it is very specific.

Admit it, your answer to the question is no, and you are avoiding giving that answer because you know that your position is immoral.

Is this how you talk to your vicars and priests?
..most likely..

You mean "honestly"? This is how I talk to everyone. Because I am honest.

You, on the other hand, are dishonest. Hence why you are so desperate to refuse to give a straightforward answer. If you were honest in your belief, and to your God, you would be honest when someone asks you a question. But, because you know your honest answers show that your personal beliefs are immoral, you will not answer.

I know and speak with Muslims all the time. They are honest, they are open, they are moral.

You are not.

 

[Polymath257]

Of course!

Good, finally we get a definitive statement. You have been dancing around this for pages and pages.

It is unacceptable for a man to force his wife to have sex against her will in Islam.

Now, what happens if he goes against Islam in this case?

 

[Polymath257]

It would do, to you, because you see things in terms of "sex".
I see things in terms of family life.

Sex is one part of life.

I am seeing things in terms of who is abused and who is the abuser.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Now, what happens if he goes against Islam in this case?

What happens to a bad husband?
Nobody will want to marry him.
He will die lonely.

If he is that bad, he will get caught for other offences, no doubt.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I am seeing things in terms of who is abused and who is the abuser.

..but really you are not .. you are saying that a woman who says "no" to her husband,
but he has sex with her anyway should be imprisoned for rape.
That undermines the institution of marriage .. and that is what underpins the 2 parent family.

Most married people have arguments with their spouses.
..but women know very well who "wears the trousers" in the West.
That is against what G-d has ordained, and marriage is becoming redundant.
One parent families are not "bad" as such, but they are not desirable, as an alternative
to the 2 parent family.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I know and speak with Muslims all the time. They are honest, they are open, they are moral.

You are not.

I can't help but wonder if these Muslims are the exception rather than the norm, much like the few evangelical Christians I know who are honest and moral. To be honest, I have a negative opinion of Muslims as a result of muhammad_isa and a couple of other circumstances that I explained in my post here.