Does being anti-Israel mean you're anti-semitic?

[mcteethinator]

I personally do not think so, however, a lot of people think differently

Does being anti-Israel and anti-ZIonism mean you're anti-semitic? Does being anti-Israel mean you support the terrorists? Why or why not?

 

[UnityNow101]

Absolutely not. One quick glance at Zionism will reveal that it is as far removed from the pure teachings of the Prophet Moses as it could possibly be. Many followers of Judaism are against Zionism and have been since the advent of its corrupt inception. Under Islamic rule, the land now known as Israel was a place of peace with the followers of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam living side by side. Enter zionism. Now peace cannot even be spoken of as people were driven from their homes and even now are being caged in as animals in the local zoo. To stand for the Palestinians is to simply stand for justice and for the rights of every human being. No person deserves to be driven from their home.

 

[Comprehend]

I personally do not think so, however, a lot of people think differently

Does being anti-Israel and anti-ZIonism mean you're anti-semitic? Does being anti-Israel mean you support the terrorists? Why or why not?

No. but anti-semites often hide behind this defense.

 

[mcteethinator]

No. but anti-semites often hide behind this defense.

I definitely agree!

A lot of Nazis use the same arguments against Zionism that just regular anti-Zionists use I have noticed. Which is sad because it sidetracks actual genuine criticism of Israel and Zionism.

 

[Sunstone]

Does being anti-Israel and anti-ZIonism mean you're anti-semitic?

No.

Does being anti-Israel mean you support the terrorists?

No.

Why or why not?

On what basis would you equate those things?

 

[LongGe123]

I'm with sunstone on this one - Israel is the name of a country, and making a statement about a country and its government is not making a statement about a particular religion. I am anti-Israel, and I don't care who knows it - at school I was frequently labelled as some kind of nazi, mostly in a joking way, but still labelled nontheless - and why?

I don't know a lot about the Jewish religion actually, but then again in making a statement against Israel, I'm not actually making any statement against the Jewish Religion so...as sunstone says, where's the connection? The people of Israel could well worship the giant spaghetti monster..if they behaved like that towards the palestinians I'd still hate them for it!

 

[Quagmire]

No. but anti-semites often hide behind this defense.

And by the same token many supporters of Israel and zionism often resort to accusations of anti-semitism in order to damage their opponents credibility and gain sympathy for their cause.

 

[Diogenes]

Christians by and large are the ones who popularized anti-semitism. But Zionism in its original form was not about acquiring land but about survival. The need for an actual place to live became abundantly clear after the holocaust when the world declared that there was no safe place for a Jew to live. Now that Israel lives on 1/6 of one percent of Arab lands it is now a necessity to give it back? The Arabs have fourteen nations and Israel can not have one? I do not think it is fair to discount the plight of the Palestinians-but if the surrounding Arab nations were so concerned over their plight than why haven't they allowed them to immigate into their countries in larger numbers?
If we declare that the Jews have no right to a homeland, than what about the rest of us? America was not built up on 'equitable intentions'. But Europeans had no historical ties to North America. There were Jews living in Palestine for the last few centuries.

 

[Smoke]

Does being anti-Israel and anti-ZIonism mean you're anti-semitic?

No. However, you'll find yourself in the company of a lot of people who are.

Incidentally, I have often heard Arabs of my acquaintance argue that they weren't anti-Semitic because they were Semites themselves, and merely being anti-Jewish doesn't make you "anti-Semitic."

Does being anti-Israel mean you support the terrorists?

I think most people who are anti-Israel tend to be sympathetic toward the terrorists, even if they dislike their methods.

I can tell you that I was anti-Israel for more than twenty years, and I still don't feel quite right about Zionism. I'm not convinced that either religion or ethnic identity is a good basis for a state. I don't believe Israel has always treated the Palestinians fairly or even humanely. What has changed my mind about Israel is the following:

• The Arab states have treated the Palestinians every bit as badly as Israel has.
• Even if I were a heterosexual Muslim Arab, I'd rather be a heterosexual Muslim Arab in Israel than in Saudi Arabia, Syria, or Iraq.
• If I were a Christian Arab, I'd rather be a Christian Arab in Israel than in any Arab country, with the possible exception of Jordan.
• If I were a gay Arab, I wouldn't want to be living in any Mideastern country but Israel.

In spite of being a Jewish state in a constant state of the threat of terrorism for almost sixty years, and in spite of admitted human rights violations on the part of Israel, Israel still manages to treat Arabs, or many of them, anyway, better than they can even hope to be treated in Arab countries. It's a long way from ideal, but under the circumstances, I think it shows a rather remarkable commitment to human rights. Imagine how the U.S., or Australia, or even Canada, would treat Arabs if they were in a situation that was even analogous to Israel's.

 

[mcteethinator]

On what basis would you equate those things?

I personally disagree with it. However I see many pro-Israelis using it as a sort of proverbial race card (Anti-Defamation League). So I'm wondering what RF thinks on the issue.

Christians by and large are the ones who popularized anti-semitism. But Zionism in its original form was not about acquiring land but about survival. The need for an actual place to live became abundantly clear after the holocaust when the world declared that there was no safe place for a Jew to live. Now that Israel lives on 1/6 of one percent of Arab lands it is now a necessity to give it back? The Arabs have fourteen nations and Israel can not have one? I do not think it is fair to discount the plight of the Palestinians-but if the surrounding Arab nations were so concerned over their plight than why haven't they allowed them to immigate into their countries in larger numbers?
If declare that the Jews have no right to a homeland, than what about the rest of us? America was not built up on 'equitable intentions'. But Europeans had no historical ties to North America. There were Jews living in Palestine for the last few centuries.

Well see, I think pro-Israelis usually think on the big terms (Arabs have lots of land, Jews don't have much). Anti-Israelis think on the small terms (How it effects the average Palestinian, who has never been involved in terrorism and probably wouldn't have hated Jews and Israelis otherwise). I personally am not against Zionism in it's pure form, which is simply moving back to the Jewish motherland. However I am against disenfranchising another group of people all because your group has been disenfranchised. The Jews could've simply moved in, because Palestine as you said, had Jews for the last few centuries. I think it would've been much better if they had simply done a gradual immigration thing with the Jews to build the suitable amount of houses, etc. Maybe creating entirely new settlements as a temporary solution for the ones that couldn't get into the main cities. Maybe even "The State of Israel Palestine" would've been pretty cool, with a Lebanon-style confessionalism system, with posts allocated to israelis and posts allocated to Palestinians. But they didn't wanna wait, so they did that "dividing the lands up thing", which in my mind was doomed to fail. It's not so much about Israel's right to exist with which I seriously have no problem with, as much as the Palestinian's right to not be persecuted and to return to their homeland if they became refugees.

I can tell you that I was anti-Israel for more than twenty years, and I still don't feel quite right about Zionism. I'm not convinced that either religion or ethnic identity is a good basis for a state. I don't believe Israel has always treated the Palestinians fairly or even humanely. What has changed my mind about Israel is the following:

• The Arab states have treated the Palestinians every bit as badly as Israel has.
• Even if I were a heterosexual Muslim Arab, I'd rather be a heterosexual Muslim Arab in Israel than in Saudi Arabia, Syria, or Iraq.
• If I were a Christian Arab, I'd rather be a Christian Arab in Israel than in any Arab country, with the possible exception of Jordan.
• If I were a gay Arab, I wouldn't want to be living in any Mideastern country but Israel.

I personally like the system of governance in Israel, I just don't like how they treat Palestinians (Right of return, bulldozing unrelated Palestinians houses as a "counter terrorism measure" etc).

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I personally do not think so, however, a lot of people think differently

A lot of people? Who, for example? On the other hand, ...

Palestinian Anti-Semitism​

Your rhetorical efforts to prettify Arab anti-judaism and anti-zionism are at best underwhelming. At worst it reflects a deceitful denial of the active and pervasive use of antisemitism in the propaganda war against Israel. One can be opposed to Zionism for any number of reasons - including gross and willful ignorance - but I am far more curious about whether you acknowledge and oppose the persistent antisemitic drivel that permeates Arab anti-zionist rhetoric and education.

 

[jamaesi]

I could have an image of anti-Arab graffiti in Palestine in this post, but what's the point?

 

[mcteethinator]

A lot of people? Who, for example?

The Anti-Defamation League.

On the other hand, ...

Palestinian Anti-Semitism
​

Wow, what a pathetic attempt to demonize all Palestinians. Let's take a look at this picture.

FYI, that says "Death to the Arabs". That doesn't mean anything, and to me that picture does not implicate all Israelis as being Anti-Arab bigots. However, if I applied your rather weak logic, I could say all Jews were anti-Arab racist bigots and that justifies terrorist attacks against them, as you seem to be implying that all Palestinians are anti-semitic racist bigots so that justifies stealing the land they and their parents and their parent's parents (etc) had been living on with no compensation in most cases.

Your rhetorical efforts to prettify Arab anti-judaism and anti-zionism are at best underwhelming. At worst it reflects a deceitful denial of the active and pervasive use of antisemitism in the propaganda war against Israel. One can be opposed to Zionism for any number of reasons - including gross and willful ignorance - but I am far more curious about whether you acknowledge and oppose the persistent antisemitic drivel that permeates Arab anti-zionist rhetoric and education.

Let me spin that around.

Your rhetorical efforts to prettify Native American anti-european and anti-colonialism are at best underwhelming. At worst it reflects a deceitful denial of the active and pervasive use of anti-european racism in the propaganda war against United States. One can be opposed to Colonialism for any number of reasons - including gross and willful ignorance - but I am far more curious about whether you acknowledge and oppose the persistent racist drivel that permeates Native American anti-colonialist rhetoric and education.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I could have an image of anti-Arab graffiti in Palestine in this post, but what's the point?

The point is that in one case it's an aberration that's condemned and in the other it's a policy that's promoted - and the more important point is your eagerness to whitewash this distinction. Do you truly maintain that children's textbooks in Gaza compare favorably with those in Jerusalem?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Wow, what a pathetic attempt to demonize all Palestinians.

It was no such thing. I remain curious about whether you acknowledge and oppose the persistent antisemitic drivel that permeates Arab anti-zionist rhetoric and education.

 

[mcteethinator]

The point is that in one case it's an aberration that's condemned and in the other it's a policy that's promoted - and the more important point is your eagerness to whitewash this distinction. Do you truly maintain that children's textbooks in Gaza compare favorably with those in Jerusalem?

No we do not. My point is, that the anti-Arab grafitti says nothing more then the anti-Jewish graffiti (Or maybe it says just as much?). If anything, I'd say you're trying to whitewash Jewish anti-Arabism. How exactly am I and jamaesi whitewashing Arabic anti-semitism when I say not agreeing with every policy Israel makes isn't anti-semitism? I'm still trying to see your point here.

It was no such thing. I remain curious about whether you acknowledge and oppose the persistent antisemitic drivel that permeates Arab anti-zionist rhetoric and education.

I do acknowledge and oppose all types of racism. That's why I oppose Zionism. I oppose suicide bombers in Israeli cafes just as much as I oppose Israelis bulldozing innocent Palestinian houses. However, noone seems to notice the latter, or at least barely reports it. Since Palestinian blood isn't as thick as Jewish blood.

But seriously, let's see a hypothetical situation here.

If you were a Palestinian, how would you feel about Israelis and Jews? Answer honestly now!

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I do not see this as anti-Semitism....
The Palestinians would hate the Israelis, what ever religion they followed.
It is what is and has been done to them, that causes the hate.

Do I hate Jews?... no.
do I distrust the Israeli government? certainly.
Do I support Terrorists? no
Do I support Israeli attacks on Palestinians? no
Do I understand the Palestinians attacks on Israel? yes
Do I support them ? no
Do I understand the Israeli suppression of the Palestinians? no

Might Israelis think I was anti Semitic? probably.
Will it change my understanding? no.

 

[mcteethinator]

The Palestinians would hate the Israelis, what ever religion they followed.
It is what is and has been done to them, that causes the hate.

:yes:

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

How exactly am I and jamaesi whitewashing Arabic anti-semitism when I say not agreeing with every policy Israel makes isn't anti-semitism? I'm still trying to see your point here.

I find it reminiscent of those who argue that one can support "white pride" without being racist. More importantly, to the extent that you equate the racist anti-Arab aberration among some Jews with the policy of antisemitic rhetoric that characterizes Palestinian education you distort the situation. Let me ask you as well: Do you truly maintain that children's textbooks in Gaza compare favorably with those in Jerusalem?

I do acknowledge and oppose all types of racism. That's why I oppose Zionism.

Do you equate all nationalism with racism?

 

[mcteethinator]

I find it reminiscent of those who argue that one can support "white pride" without being racist. More importantly, to the extent that you equate the racist anti-Arab aberration among some Jews with the policy of antisemitic rhetoric that characterizes Palestinian education you distort the situation. Let me ask you as well: Do you truly maintain that children's textbooks in Gaza compare favorably with those in Jerusalem?

No. What's your point. It seems to me your entire argument is a red herring. Palestinians hate Jews for obvious reasons just as a lot of Jews hate Palestinians for obvious reasons (Suicide bombings). I never gave any sort of support for anti-semitism in this topic.

Now since I've answered your question, care to answer mine? If you were a Palestinian, how would you feel about Jews? As Terrywoodenpic said, Palestinians would hate Israelis regardless of their religion and ethnicity.

Do you equate all nationalism with racism?

I equate all colonialism with racism.

EDIT: Well, then again, nationalism at it's most extreme form is racism. And I'd equate Zionism with being extreme (Kicking out an entire group of people because you're better than them and have more of a right to the land because your people lived there nearly 2000 years ago)