Does Buddhism prohibit drugs?

[Wannabe Yogi]

The passage is specifically as its use as a medicine:

"Garlic should not be eaten. Whoever should eat it: an offense of wrong doing." ... "I allow that garlic be eaten in the case of illness." — Cv.V.34.1-2​

Oh, and remember, these rules are for monks and nuns, not laypersons.

Yes in India mix's of common foods are seen as medicines. These ideas go to pre buddhist times. Garlic is seen as having the affect of increasing desires on the mind body complex. That is why it is only taken in medicine by some. Today in India many Holymen will not eat garlic. It is a big issue for some.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

If you're looking for justification of your drug usage, you're not likely to find it here, or in the Dharmic DIR as a whole.

 

[maxfreakout]

If you're looking for justification of your drug usage, you're not likely to find it here, or in the Dharmic DIR as a whole.

im not asking about 'justification' of drugs, rather i am asking about what attitude buddhist tradition takes towards the issue of drugs.

 

[SageTree]

Aaaaaand also we're not allow to advocate use/misuse of illegal substances on RF....

 

[Murkve]

im not asking about 'justification' of drugs, rather i am asking about what attitude buddhist tradition takes towards the issue of drugs.

And you've gotten it. Reiterated. From a multitude of Buddhists from a multitude of traditions.

Basic Consensus: Buddhism is about developing, disciplining, and advancing your mind to the point where it is pure and independent from the fetters and attachments that normally bind it. Drugs are discouraged not only because of the risk of further attachment, but because depending upon a substance for "wisdom" is the opposite of what a pure and independent mind should be.

However, ultimately the choice is up to you - as with all things. Just know that if your choice is to use mind-altering substances to further your spiritual practice, you will find little support amongst practicing Buddhists.

 

[SageTree]

Yeah man.... I'm not even saying a decisive 'No', because that is an extreme as well,
but completely agree with this statement:

....because depending upon a substance for "wisdom" is the opposite of what a pure and independent mind should be.

 

[maxfreakout]

Drugs are discouraged

But only by modern (post 1960s) western buddhists, who only do so because they inherit the prevailing antidrugs attitudes from the society (ie their antidrugs attitude does not come from the buddhist scripture). It seems that original buddhists (including buddha himself) did not discourage drug use, except that of alcohol

depending upon a substance for "wisdom" is the opposite of what a pure and independent mind should be.

drugs are used for many reasons besides wisdom, for example some drugs are used to increase mental and physical alertness

Just know that if your choice is to use mind-altering substances to further your spiritual practice, you will find little support amongst practicing Buddhists.

i am aware that modern buddhists do not use drugs as part of their buddhist practise, but this thread clearly shows that there is no reason to think that Buddha himself shared this antidrugs attitude. Modern buddhists have no basis for disparaging drug use, besides their modern western values (ie it has nothing to do with buddhism)

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

Vanakkam,

So, if Buddhists or bouddhist scriptures are not convincing enough for you (seriously ) why don't you just build a Tardis or whatever and go figure out by yourself back in the sixties and ask some monks around ?

No answer will be good enough for you unless it's convenient for you, and it's not. So I don't think there is a need to go further about this, since you already had your answer.

 

[maxfreakout]

So, if Buddhists or bouddhist scriptures are not convincing enough for you

i find the buddhist scriptures immensely convincing and compelling, which is why this question is very important to me

the total silence of buddhist scriptures on the drugs issue, coupled with their explicit warnings about alcohol, are very suggestive.

It is far less convincing when modern 'buddhists' attempt to insist that the pali expression for "fermented and distilled drinks" also applies to every other drug, even those that are not fermented or distilled drinks. This just sounds like modern antidrugs projection, and failure of basic logic

 

[SageTree]

max,

Can you post some links/data.... anything to back up this claim about the 1960's and modern, western Buddhism?

Imo, it would seem that the opinion of cannabis is much more laid back ,generally speaking and from what I gather, around the world, outside of western culture.
It's seen more just for what it is. Not as a mortal sin.

But still.... I'd like to see some links.

Also: What drugs are you talking about here? Or are you just going general to 'all drugs'?

 

[maxfreakout]

Can you post some links/data.... anything to back up this claim about the 1960's and modern, western Buddhism?

im talking about the attitudes of buddhists since the 1960s, when mainstream western buddhism first emerged, as opposed to ancient buddhism of the suttas. There are no references to drugs in the ancient suttas, but modern buddhist writings often refer disparagingly to drugs, such as the ones posting on this thread. See for example the issue of 'tricycle' magazine about drugs

Also: What drugs are you talking about here? Or are you just going general to 'all drugs'?

drugs in general, ie what were the attitudes of the ancient buddhists regarding the ingestion of drugs.

 

[Murkve]

But only by modern (post 1960s) western buddhists, who only do so because they inherit the prevailing antidrugs attitudes from the society (ie their antidrugs attitude does not come from the buddhist scripture). It seems that original buddhists (including buddha himself) did not discourage drug use, except that of alcohol

1) The Dhamma stands on its own. Does it matter what the Buddha himself said? You asked specifically about "Buddhist Tradition", and that means that, at the very least, you cannot just disregard the opinion of the majority of modern Buddhists.

2) You live in the modern era, not in 550 BCE. Why are you so fixated on that timeframe when your experience is of the present one?

3) In my readings of scriptures, I have seen no references specifically condoning recreational drug use. Even in the passages presented here as evidence it is not specifically clear. You are positing that early Buddhism condoned recreational mind-altering substances. The burden of proof is on you to substantiate that claim. A loophole in the original Pali is not permission and not proof.

drugs are used for many reasons besides wisdom, for example some drugs are used to increase mental and physical alertness

In Buddhism, the word "Wisdom" is used as a catch-all term to mean the opposite of "Ignorance". Wisdom, or "Mindfulness" is often interpreted as mental and physical alertness.

 

[SageTree]

Cannabis is one of the traditional medicines in Chinese herbal medicine....
Could be that is wasn't a drug at the time at all?
Hence the classification?

(More speculation)

Could have been used completely in a medicinal way... and thus in a sacramental?

But hey... let's get to the point max.

What benefit are these drugs to you, since you would seem to be a proponent of drug induced enlightenment.....?

 

[maxfreakout]

1) The Dhamma stands on its own. Does it matter what the Buddha himself said? You asked specifically about "Buddhist Tradition", and that means that, at the very least, you cannot just disregard the opinion of the majority of modern Buddhists.

modern buddhism seems to differ sharply from traditional buddhism about the drugs issue. Im asking about traditional buddhism's attitudes to drugs. Modern buddhists have broken with tradition to begin insisting since the 1960s that drugs are bad, that seems to be solely product of the modern era, and nothing to do with the spirit of traditional buddhism.

2) You live in the modern era, not in 550 BCE. Why are you so fixated on that timeframe when your experience is of the present one?

im interested in the teachings of the buddha and traditional buddhism regarding the drugs issue. As i already said i am well aware that modern western buddhists disparage drugs, but it is reasonable to ask if that antidrugs attitude was shared by the buddha and the ancient buddhists

3) In my readings of scriptures, I have seen no references specifically condoning recreational drug use.

but there is a reference that specifically warns against the use of alcoholic drinks

1You are positing that early Buddhism condoned recreational mind-altering substances.

no i am not, as i have made very clear, i am asking about the attitude of the buddha and the ancient buddhists towards drugs

 

[maxfreakout]

What benefit are these drugs to you, since you would seem to be a proponent of drug induced enlightenment.....?

i think it is better to know the truth than to dwell in falsehood and confusion, such as the artificial antidrugs projection that is rife in modern buddhism

 

[SageTree]

For that matter, Cannabis isn't mentioned in the Holy Qur'an either....
But it's haram none the less.

 

[Murkve]

but there is a reference that specifically warns against the use of alcoholic drinks

OK. Let me ask you, as per the Kalama Sutta the Buddha said that each should look within one's self and one's own experiences to see what is wholesome/unwholesome:

If early Buddhist doctrine specifically warns against Alcohol as a mind-altering substance, why would that lead you to pose the question that early Buddhists regarded recreational use of other mind-altering substances as permissible?

The Buddhist scriptures also specifically warn against killing of any type. Would this lead you to pose the question of whether torture was regarded as permissible by early Buddhists?

 

[LuisDantas]

i think it is better to know the truth than to dwell in falsehood and confusion, such as the artificial antidrugs projection that is rife in modern buddhism

You are set on labeling it "artificial" and maybe even as a revisionism of some kind, but really, it is very odd to talk about drugs as if they were a legitimate part of Buddhist practice.

 

[LuisDantas]

But only by modern (post 1960s) western buddhists, who only do so because they inherit the prevailing antidrugs attitudes from the society (ie their antidrugs attitude does not come from the buddhist scripture). It seems that original buddhists (including buddha himself) did not discourage drug use, except that of alcohol

Maybe it seems so to you. To me it looks like quite the opposite. The increased tolerance towards drug use in the greater society since the 1960s has contaminated the perception of what Buddhist to some (hopefully small and reversible) degree instead.

drugs are used for many reasons besides wisdom, for example some drugs are used to increase mental and physical alertness

If you believe in that, I guess then that is it. But to claim that such as Buddhist (or even Dharmic) view is a grave and dangerous mistake.

i am aware that modern buddhists do not use drugs as part of their buddhist practise, but this thread clearly shows that there is no reason to think that Buddha himself shared this antidrugs attitude.

Such a statement is definitely at odds with what is actually in this thread. Do you realize that?

Modern buddhists have no basis for disparaging drug use, besides their modern western values (ie it has nothing to do with buddhism)

Uh, no. You are utterly mistaken about that. Sorry.

 

[Vinayaka]

This is not the first nor will it be the last where some correlation between drug use and dharmic religion has been attempted. Anything to justify it I guess. Clear air, clear lungs, clear blood and clear thinking all go together.