Does Christmas have anything to do with Christ?

[Riverwolf]

God nor Jesus ever command that his birth be celebrated.December 25th is never mentioned anywhere in the holy scriptures as being Jesus B-day.

NEITHER God nor Jesus ever commanded computers be built, nor did they ever command participation on Religious Forums. Frankly, from what I've seen, the only guys who get the "only if in the Bible" thing right are the Amish.

Besides, it actually makes sense to celebrate the birth of Jesus on or near the Winter Solstice, even if that's not his birthday. The Winter Solstice is the longest night, which marks the beginning of the Waxing Year. That is, the year the Sun Comes Back. Those of us not in the Far North don't fully understand the significance of that, so try to imagine months of little sunlight, and weeks of NO sunlight. At all.

You'd want to celebrate the Sun Coming Back, too. For a Christian, what better way to mark that hope than with a celebration of the Savior's birth during metaphorical Sunless Days?

 

[Desert Snake]

Well, look it depends on your perspective, for many Xmas was and is a religious holiday.

No, historically December 25 used to be a pagan holiday used to celebrate the birth of the unconquered sun (or what the Romans call the 'natalis solis invicti') and the birth of Mithras. It was only during the time of Emperor Constantine when the western 'christians' celebrated on that date the birth of Christ. For me, it failed to 'christianize' that holiday. Kids know more of Santa than Jesus.

Not a christian btw. Just used to be one.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

To celebrate is fine, but what is the depth? How does Santa Claus, candy canes, gift giving and Christmas trees have anything to do with Jesus? You want to say it is about hope and salvation. Where is that reflected in the celebration?

Those are part of the cultural celebration, not the religious Christian celebration but they do have their place.

Christmas Overview

 

[Nada]

NEITHER God nor Jesus ever commanded computers be built, nor did they ever command participation on Religious Forums. Frankly, from what I've seen, the only guys who get the "only if in the Bible" thing right are the Amish.

Besides, it actually makes sense to celebrate the birth of Jesus on or near the Winter Solstice, even if that's not his birthday. The Winter Solstice is the longest night, which marks the beginning of the Waxing Year. That is, the year the Sun Comes Back. Those of us not in the Far North don't fully understand the significance of that, so try to imagine months of little sunlight, and weeks of NO sunlight. At all.

You'd want to celebrate the Sun Coming Back, too. For a Christian, what better way to mark that hope than with a celebration of the Savior's birth during metaphorical Sunless Days?

According to the holy scriptures,Jesus never commands his birth to be celebrated or remembered.If you notice though he does command that his death be remembered.This is the last supper where he established the new covenant.His death is what redeemed mankind from Adamic sin and this is when Jesus became the sacrificial lamb and high priest.So Jesus' death has more significance than his birth.

Luke 22:19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."


This is what is said in the holy scriptures about birth and death.....

Ecclesiastes 7:1 A good name is better than good oil, and the day of death is better than the day of birth.

So we can see that his death is more important than his birth.

There is no scripture anywhere in the holy scriptures that describes Jesus,his disciples,nor his parents ever celebrating his birthday.


Joseph and Mary were on their way to their birth place for the census decreed by Caesar Augustus.This did not take place during the winter.This had to have happened before winter.Jesus was born during this trip.

Luke 2 1Now in those days a decree went out from Caesar Au·gus′tus for all the inhabited earth to be registered. 2 (This first registration took place when Qui·rin′i·us was governor of Syria.) 3 And all the people went to be registered, each one to his own city. 4 Of course, Joseph also went up from Gal′i·lee, from the city of Naz′a·reth, into Ju·de′a, to David’s city, which is called Beth′le·hem,because of his being a member of the house and family of David.


It also mentions that when Jesus was born the Shepherds were in the fields tending to their flocks.This does not occur during winter.

Luke 2 :8 There were also in the same region shepherds living out of doors and keeping watch in the night over their flocks.


16 And they went quickly and found Mary as well as Joseph, and the infant lying in the manger. 17 When they saw this, they made known the message that they had been told concerning this young child.

 

[Riverwolf]

According to the holy scriptures,Jesus never commands his birth to be celebrated or remembered.If you notice though he does command that his death be remembered.This is the last supper where he established the new covenant.His death is what redeemed mankind from Adamic sin and this is when Jesus became the sacrificial lamb and high priest.So Jesus' death has more significance than his birth.

Yes, I know. Hence why Easter has more significance for Christians.

This is what is said in the holy scriptures about birth and death.....

Ecclesiastes 7:1 A good name is better than good oil, and the day of death is better than the day of birth.

So we can see that his death is more important than his birth.

There is no scripture anywhere in the holy scriptures that describes Jesus,his disciples,nor his parents ever celebrating his birthday.

So?

Joseph and Mary were on their way to their birth place for the census decreed by Caesar Augustus.This did not take place during the winter.This had to have happened before winter.Jesus was born during this trip.

Luke 2 1Now in those days a decree went out from Caesar Au·gus′tus for all the inhabited earth to be registered. 2 (This first registration took place when Qui·rin′i·us was governor of Syria.) 3 And all the people went to be registered, each one to his own city. 4 Of course, Joseph also went up from Gal′i·lee, from the city of Naz′a·reth, into Ju·de′a, to David’s city, which is called Beth′le·hem,because of his being a member of the house and family of David.


It also mentions that when Jesus was born the Shepherds were in the fields tending to their flocks.This does not occur during winter.

Luke 2 :8 There were also in the same region shepherds living out of doors and keeping watch in the night over their flocks.


16 And they went quickly and found Mary as well as Joseph, and the infant lying in the manger. 17 When they saw this, they made known the message that they had been told concerning this young child.

I know, I know.

Thing is, none of these explicitly state NOT to worship his birth on the Solstice. Furthermore, birthdays aren't always celebrated on the exact date of birth, anyway.

I'm afraid you haven't refuted what I said about how much sense it makes from a cultural perspective.

 

[Nada]

Yes, I know. Hence why Easter has more significance for Christians.



So?



I know, I know.

Thing is, none of these explicitly state NOT to worship his birth on the Solstice. Furthermore, birthdays aren't always celebrated on the exact date of birth, anyway.

I'm afraid you haven't refuted what I said about how much sense it makes from a cultural perspective.

I laughed like this man in the video when I saw how you put "so?"

 

[Riverwolf]

Not watching that.

If the video has any relevance, you can explain it yourself.

 

[Nada]

Not watching that.

If the video has any relevance, you can explain it yourself.

Yes sir! I said ,"Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha........" I thought it was just funny how you just put "so?",that's all. By the way,Easter has nothing to do with Jesus at all.It is a pagan holiday that represents the rebirth of spring.In the winter everything dies,winter solstice.In spring everything is reborn.That's why the rabbit and egg.The rabbit represents fertility.The egg represents rebirth.

 

[Riverwolf]

Yes sir!

So, since there is no explanation accompanying this acknowledgement, I can assume the video, then, has no relevance?

 

[Nada]

So, since there is no explanation accompanying this acknowledgement, I can assume the video, then, has no relevance?

I will not discuss with you anymore.I do not want to make you upset.You do not sound happy.I'm sorry.

 

[Riverwolf]

I will not discuss with you anymore.I do not want to make you upset.You do not sound happy.I'm sorry.

There's no need to apologize. I'm not upset at all. If I were upset, I wouldn't hang around; I'd wait until I was not upset anymore.

If anything, I'm confused.

 

[Nada]

There's no need to apologize. I'm not upset at all. If I were upset, I wouldn't hang around; I'd wait until I was not upset anymore.

If anything, I'm confused.

Cool....Im glad to hear that.

 

[McBell]

But you don't know about true Christianity.

Says you.
Now all you need do is show that you do.

Thus far you have failed.

 

[ChristineES]

For those who are interested, here is a link to Wikipedia about Yule and Yuletide. I think it might be an interesting read for some of you.

Yule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ingledsva]

the texts are "made-up tradition of man," for Pete's sake! You really need to let go of this puerile notion that the bible is some magical document.

I think it is much more childish to think the Bible is from God.

You are confusing debating what the Bible actually says, - with belief in that Bible.

I believe the Bible is just the writings of desert nomads, - no God involved.


*

 

[Ingledsva]

In ancient (as well as modern times) a holiday and a "go to church day" were The. Same. Thing. In fact, Christmas Day is still a holy day (holiday) of obligation, meaning that "you're supposed to go to church." Sorry. You fail.

LOL! You made my point.

They were church days - not the celebrations they are.

As has been pointed out by multiple people - the celebration was lifted from Pagans, and Jesus wasn't even born on the 25th, so - no church day - AND - no celebration. Nothing to with Jesus whatsoever, other then people tagging on his name.


*

 

[Renji]

Well, look it depends on your perspective, for many Xmas was and is a religious holiday.

Even if 'christian' history itself reveals it isn't?

Even early church fathers (like Origen) originally disapprove such 'celebration'.

 

[ChristineES]

I think something that we're all failing to say is that what we now call Christmas did not start out as a Christian holiday, some of the things we still do as part of the holiday did not originate with Christianity, and so on. Yeshua was put, for reasons both mentioned and not mentioned in this thread, into the holiday later and the name changed from the various celebrations (yes, plural, there is obvious there was more than one at work). So people nowadays do, indeed, view as a Christian holiday. Some people don't put Christ into it at all, which is understandable, after all, as I said, it did not originate in Christianity. Some of these celebrations came from various religions and others were merely cultural celebrations.

 

[sojourner]

I think it is much more childish to think the Bible is from God.

You are confusing debating what the Bible actually says, - with belief in that Bible.

I believe the Bible is just the writings of desert nomads, - no God involved.


*

Again: Doesn't matter what the bible does or does not say. The bible is not the be-all-end-all of Christian reality. It is part of a larger whole.

 

[sojourner]

LOL! You made my point.

They were church days - not the celebrations they are.

As has been pointed out by multiple people - the celebration was lifted from Pagans, and Jesus wasn't even born on the 25th, so - no church day - AND - no celebration. Nothing to with Jesus whatsoever, other then people tagging on his name.


*

No. People were supposed to go to church (hence "mass"). They were also supposed to celebrate at home. The Feast of Christmas lasts 12 days, beginning with Christmas Day and ending on Epiphany. The holy day (holiday) is Xmas Day. The Feast, or season, of Xmas lasts 12 days. Xmas was always a celebration.

The point you're making is that Xmas comes from several pagan celebrations, among them Saturnalia and Yule. Some of the celebrations and symbols have been given Xtian meaning, some remain merely cultural "ghosts." Although the church sometime uses a tree, it is not a particularly Xtian symbol (it is given Xtian meaning, however). But, overall, for Xtians, the season is about Christ.