does god exist

[Storm]

I believe in God, eselam. I'm not a Muslim because I believe God is incomprehensible, and therefore Islam is just as flawed as every other religion.

 

[Sententia]

I believe in God, eselam. I'm not a Muslim because I believe God is incomprehensible, and therefore Islam is just as flawed as every other religion.

You call yourself a non-theist....

Theist means: belief in the existence of a god or gods.

You then declare yourself to not believe in his god but in some other incomprehensible god...

Thus you claim to be one who doesnt believe in a god but actually does just....... not in one we could understand....

Who is confused here?

 

[darkendless]

you have said that the existence of god cannot be proven scientifically well then here it is practically. you have also said that everything happens because of coincidence right. do you think that it is a coincidence that humans are the only cretures with free will out of all the many milions of creatures in this world
everyday you see many things infront of you, you see other people and you see many other creatures right. i want you to prove to me why is everything in order.
1) why are humans ruling this world
2) why are we on the fourth planet on our solar system
3) if you beleive in coincidence or chance then how did all this become to be (the universe and everything else)
4) why does the sun go from east to west and not the other way around or go from north to south
explain to me who put everything in order if it wasn't Allah did nature do it and if nature did then tell me who created nature

No one can explain it to you, that doesn't mean Allah did that, thats just another naive assumption. How do you know we're the only creatures with free will? If you're so damn convinced show me your research and ill judge that for myself.

We cannot explain nature fully yet, my only shred of faith is that science will one day put an end to these rediculous myths and claims by God and his mindless sheep.

 

[Gharib]

I believe in God, eselam. I'm not a Muslim because I believe God is incomprehensible, and therefore Islam is just as flawed as every other religion.

look my dear friend there is alot about Islam that a non-muslim cannot possibly understand because if they did then they would be muslims, and if god is incomprehensible then like i said before you ask any question you want about Allah and Inshallah i can make him un-incomprehensible to you with my answers because you really find it hard to beleive His existence even though you say He exists

 

[Storm]

look my dear friend there is alot about Islam that a non-muslim cannot possibly understand because if they did then they would be muslims, and if god is incomprehensible then like i said before you ask any question you want about Allah and Inshallah i can make him un-incomprehensible to you with my answers because you really find it hard to beleive His existence even though you say He exists

Are you familiar with the word "hubris?"

 

[Gharib]

No one can explain it to you, that doesn't mean Allah did that, thats just another naive assumption. How do you know we're the only creatures with free will? If you're so damn convinced show me your research and ill judge that for myself.

We cannot explain nature fully yet, my only shred of faith is that science will one day put an end to these rediculous myths and claims by God and his mindless sheep.

1) if Allah didn't do that then please tell me who did.
2) heres what you can judge about free will ---- if there were any other creatures that lived in this earth who had free will then why aren't they civilising like us (build houses with bricks etc..). where is their technology like us. i will use a cow as an exaple for you about something: if you go to a farm and beat the hell out of a cow and return the next day the cow will not hold a grudge against you and stab you with its horn nor would any other creature but try doing that to a human and then you will see what will happen. only humans are able to do what they wish not other creatures. there are lions who only eat meat and no veggies, you've got cows that only eat grass and no meat, and there are humans who eat booth doesn't that tell you something about free will.

and lastly
3) so many milions and billions of years have gone by since the creation of man and nature has never been able to be expalined fully yet. you tell me what makes you so sure that in the future they will.
nature has been explained fully since the creation of man but because you do not know about it, don't assume that no one knows about it. if you have read the Kur'an then you would know how everything about how nature works

 

[Gharib]

are you familiar with the word "hubris?"

never heard it before

 

[Storm]

It means excessive pride, arrogance. From the Wiki:

Hubris, sometimes spelled hybris (ancient Greek ὕβρι&#962, is a term used in modern English to indicate overweening pride, self-confidence, superciliousness, or arrogance, often resulting in fatal retribution. In ancient Greece, hubris referred to actions which, intentionally or not, shamed and humiliated the victim, and frequently the perpetrator as well. It was most evident in the public and private actions of the powerful and rich. The word was also used to describe actions of those who challenged the gods or their laws, especially in Greek tragedy, resulting in the protagonist's downfall.

Hubris, though not specifically defined, was a legal term and was considered a crime in classical Athens. It was also considered the greatest sin of the ancient Greek world. That was so because it was not only proof of excessive pride, but also resulted in violent acts by or to those involved. The category of acts constituting hubris for the ancient Greeks apparently broadened from the original specific reference to mutilation of a corpse, or a humiliation of a defeated foe, or irreverent "outrageous treatment" in general.

The meaning was eventually further generalized in its modern English usage to apply to any outrageous act or exhibition of pride or disregard for basic moral laws. Such an act may be referred to as an "act of hubris", or the person committing the act may be said to be hubristic. Atē, ancient Greek for "ruin, folly, delusion," is the action performed by the hero, usually because of his/her hubris, or great pride, that leads to his/her death or downfall.
​

Claiming to know the mind of God is the very essence of hubris.

 

[darkendless]

1) if Allah didn't do that then please tell me who did.
2) heres what you can judge about free will ---- if there were any other creatures that lived in this earth who had free will then why aren't they civilising like us (build houses with bricks etc..). where is their technology like us. i will use a cow as an exaple for you about something: if you go to a farm and beat the hell out of a cow and return the next day the cow will not hold a grudge against you and stab you with its horn nor would any other creature but try doing that to a human and then you will see what will happen. only humans are able to do what they wish not other creatures. there are lions who only eat meat and no veggies, you've got cows that only eat grass and no meat, and there are humans who eat booth doesn't that tell you something about free will.

and lastly
3) so many milions and billions of years have gone by since the creation of man and nature has never been able to be expalined fully yet. you tell me what makes you so sure that in the future they will.
nature has been explained fully since the creation of man but because you do not know about it, don't assume that no one knows about it. if you have read the Kur'an then you would know how everything about how nature works

1) heard it a million times. Evolution. Its not completely concrete but its a step in the right direction. Even when it is explained i doubt theists will have the sense to listen, many i know are to damn stubborn to admit they're wrong. If there was a scrap of credible evidence Allah created the universe, i'd convert.

2) Free will does not mean civilising. Honestly, what made you come to this conclusion. 3 people sit around a dog and call it, free will decides which person the dog will go to. Not your divine Allah.

3) Science will prevail, people capable of explaining our origins are sick of hearing about this God fellow who's taking all the credit for doing nothing.

 

[Gharib]

1) heard it a million times. Evolution. Its not completely concrete but its a step in the right direction. Even when it is explained i doubt theists will have the sense to listen, many i know are to damn stubborn to admit they're wrong. If there was a scrap of credible evidence Allah created the universe, i'd convert.

would you really convert if i prove to you that the that monkey crap is only lies

 

[Magic Man]

Storm
ok, how can the fact that Allah exists be so hard for you to accept.
you tell me what facts would please your heart in beleiving that Allah exists and Inshallah i can answer them for you
regards eselam

It's so hard to accept because I've never had a personal experience that could be attributed to Allah, and there is no other proof of his existence other than that. Aside from that everything I know about Allah doesn't make sense when put together and it seems much more likely that it was all made up somewhere along the line.

The facts that would "please my heart" would be Allah coming down himself and declaring in a way that only he could that he is real. Anything short of that just isn't going to do it.

 

[Storm]

would you really convert if i prove to you that the that monkey crap is only lies

Calling it "monkey crap" just demonstrates that you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Gharib]

Calling it "monkey crap" just demonstrates that you don't know what you're talking about.

let me put it in other words

so called "evolution"

 

[Magic Man]

You call yourself a non-theist....

Theist means: belief in the existence of a god or gods.

You then declare yourself to not believe in his god but in some other incomprehensible god...

Thus you claim to be one who doesnt believe in a god but actually does just....... not in one we could understand....

Who is confused here?

You are confused here. She declares herself a non-theistic god believer, not a non-theist. She doesn't claim to not believe in a god. She claims to not believe in a theistic god. She does believe in a panentheistic god. You could click the link in her signature to find out more before attacking her, and then you wouldn't be so confused...or you could even ask first. She'd be glad to explain it to you, if you'd just ask.

 

[Gharib]

It's so hard to accept because I've never had a personal experience that could be attributed to Allah, and there is no other proof of his existence other than that. Aside from that everything I know about Allah doesn't make sense when put together and it seems much more likely that it was all made up somewhere along the line.

The facts that would "please my heart" would be Allah coming down himself and declaring in a way that only he could that he is real. Anything short of that just isn't going to do it.

then my friend i will say this to you i will say a verse from the Kur'an which says

"wait because i'm waiting with you"
if that is the only evidence that will please your heart then please be patien and one day you will see but it will be too late for there is no more return to this world

 

[Magic Man]

1) if Allah didn't do that then please tell me who did.

First, the obvious, maybe Yahweh or another god or gods. Second (as I believe) random chance.

2) heres what you can judge about free will ---- if there were any other creatures that lived in this earth who had free will then why aren't they civilising like us (build houses with bricks etc..). where is their technology like us. i will use a cow as an exaple for you about something: if you go to a farm and beat the hell out of a cow and return the next day the cow will not hold a grudge against you and stab you with its horn nor would any other creature but try doing that to a human and then you will see what will happen. only humans are able to do what they wish not other creatures. there are lions who only eat meat and no veggies, you've got cows that only eat grass and no meat, and there are humans who eat booth doesn't that tell you something about free will.

Free will is a concept made up by humans in relation to religion. I have no use for it. Your example of the cow, though, is flawed, as that has nothing to do with free will and it's not even a true example. If you beat an animal one day and return the next, there's a decent chance that the animal will attack you.

Are you really serious about whether or not an animal is a vegetarian being a question of free will? It's so ridiculous I shouldn't even answer, but the easiest way to disprove it to you is that there are other animals that eat both vegetables and meat.

and lastly
3) so many milions and billions of years have gone by since the creation of man and nature has never been able to be expalined fully yet. you tell me what makes you so sure that in the future they will.
nature has been explained fully since the creation of man but because you do not know about it, don't assume that no one knows about it. if you have read the Kur'an then you would know how everything about how nature works

It might never be fully explained, but that doesn't mean we should just make up an answer. It's better to admit when you don't know something. I hate to break it to you, but the Koran doesn't fully explain nature, and some of the stuff it does explain is wrong information anyway.

 

[ranjana]

well im glad to see another has taken up Melanieeee's torch on this thread!!!:highfive:

also impressed that with nothing resembling 'proof' both theists and atheists can argue for their cause! it seems like one gets insulted when the other says 'you have no proof!' yet, how can you? proof is in the realm of empirical science, not religion.

But for theists, bring out your proof! and verses from a book dont count as proof!!! im just having fun, i dont believe its necessary to force anyone else to see through our own eyes. Truth (to me) is that which brings me to a higher state of awareness, greater compassion, and the distinct lack of emotions.

 

[Magic Man]

would you really convert if i prove to you that the that monkey crap is only lies

Well, first, calling it monkey crap isn't a good first step. That's not a good way to get someone to listen to you. Second, it's not lies, even if it is false. In that case, it's just a mistaken idea, not lies. Third, it's true, since we can see it actually happen. Fourth, I'd be willing to bet that your disproof is based solely on the Koran and no kind of objective evidence whatsoever.

 

[darkendless]

would you really convert if i prove to you that the that monkey crap is only lies

Monkey crap. Be careful there, the very thing thats keeping you sticking to your chair might get offended and then we'll all die.
You couldnt prove it to me even if you tried.

Monkey crap has 1000x more sense than the book you wave around like its law. Let me be frank with you, open your eyes to the reality of the world rather than putting your head in the sand everytime. There is a world outside your narrowminded view, open your eyes, you might learn a thing or two.

 

[Runewolf1973]

In All knowing there lies proof of God. In stillness of mind there lies enlightenment. Because we as silly humans are unable to possibly "know" ALL things, we will never be able to explain them. But with that being said, ALL that is there is there is it not? The Universe is real. Only ALL knowledge knows ALL things.