Does god make a good parent?

[Autodidact]

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From the book "Insight on the Scriptures", an encyclopedia on Biblical issues and understanding;

A Hebrew slave owner was permitted to strike his slave man or slave girl with a stick if the slave was disobedient or rebellious. But if the slave died under the beating, the slave owner was to be punished. If the slave lived for a day or two afterward, however, this would be evidence tending to indicate that the slave owner did not have murder in his heart. He had the right to mete out disciplinary punishment, for the slave was “his money.” A man would be very unlikely to want to destroy completely his own valuable property, thereby suffering a loss. Also, if the slave died after the passage of a day or more, it might not be certain whether death was from the beating or from some other cause. So if the slave continued alive a day or two, the master would not be punished.—Ex 21:20, 21

As anyone can see, the slave owner was accountable to his fellow human whether slave or free man. A much different situation here from the days of the imported African slaves in the New World.

There do seem to be rules, but clearly, if the owner beat the slave almost to death, and the slave died a few days later--no punishment.

Is that your idea of morality?

It does in spirit (spirit of the law)

Well the spirit seems to be that buying, selling and beating people from outside your tribe is just fine.

Do you apply it in your life and everyday dealings?

No, why would I? I'm an atheist. I'm not stuck with a 3000 year old morality.

 

[jonman122]

I would savor the chance to go face to face with any one of you guys.
If ever in San Diego County, give me a heads up, and I'll arrange a meeting with you.
Especially you Mr. Waitasec.



hahaha

I think it's mrs. waitasec, and you didn't watch the video yet, did you? are you afraid?

 

[MurphtheSurf]

I think it's mrs. waitasec, and you didn't watch the video yet, did you? are you afraid?

Yes I'm afraid of a video that a 14 year old kid has posted. Sheeeesh.

 

[MurphtheSurf]

Well the spirit seems to be that buying, selling and beating people from outside your tribe is just fine.
.

This quote clearly shows that you know nothing about arrangement regarding slaves from the Bible.
It would be wise to do at least a little research before coming on here to debate something you know nothing about and looking foolish.
Didn't you learn anything from the exchanges between Jon, Anna, and myself early on in this thread?

 

[McBell]

Very well then, now I know where you're coming from.

Your posts indicate that you have absolutely no idea where I am coming from or what I am talking about.

 

[Autodidact]

This quote clearly shows that you know nothing about arrangement regarding slaves from the Bible.
It would be wise to do at least a little research before coming on here to debate something you know nothing about and looking foolish.
Didn't you learn anything from the exchanges between Jon, Anna, and myself early on in this thread?

If you want to challenge my statement, bring forth your evidence, as I did. Those who do know, don't have to boast about their knowledge; they demonstrate it.

 

[jonman122]

This quote clearly shows that you know nothing about arrangement regarding slaves from the Bible.
It would be wise to do at least a little research before coming on here to debate something you know nothing about and looking foolish.
Didn't you learn anything from the exchanges between Jon, Anna, and myself early on in this thread?

all that anyone learned is that you have absolutely no understanding of your own religion, you have no respect for anyone other than people in your religion (everyone else isn't saved so they can't be your friends, you won't see them in the end times.) and you have literally no respect for logic, reason, understanding and morality.

talking to you is like talking to a brick wall, nothing constructive comes from it, in fact nothing at all comes from it. At the most, some unintelligable groaning from the stress of its weight.

 

[Autodidact]

There have been a few threads lately where the topic of slavery and the Bible has come up. What say you to a thread to debate the subject?

 

[MurphtheSurf]

Your posts indicate that you have absolutely no idea where I am coming from or what I am talking about.

Actually, my post indicated that I have no desire to waste my time educating you on anything unless you're really interested. But I don't think you are, so why bother?

 

[MurphtheSurf]

all that anyone learned is that you have absolutely no understanding of your own religion, you have no respect for anyone other than people in your religion (everyone else isn't saved so they can't be your friends, you won't see them in the end times.) and you have literally no respect for logic, reason, understanding and morality.

talking to you is like talking to a brick wall, nothing constructive comes from it, in fact nothing at all comes from it. At the most, some unintelligable groaning from the stress of its weight.

Well, it seems Jon didn't learn anything from those exchanges either. :no: I have many worldly people I consider friends, including an atheist on this very forum whom I have never even met face to face. But I would like to.
Sadly, you complain of my lack of respect for logic, reason, understanding and morality. I don't know why you threw in the morality thing, but I suppose when one has nothing, one must make up things.
Ironically, it was an appreciation for logic, reason, understanding that convinced me that I was making the right choices when considering my spiritual path.
You might understand that too one day when you have more real life experiences than the typical know-it-all teenager.

 

[MurphtheSurf]

If you want to challenge my statement, bring forth your evidence, as I did. Those who do know, don't have to boast about their knowledge; they demonstrate it.

What evidence? You posted a scripture, and I posted an explanation.
I don't know what your buds are demonstrating, but it sure ain't knowledge.

 

[McBell]

This quote clearly shows that you know nothing about arrangement regarding slaves from the Bible.
It would be wise to do at least a little research before coming on here to debate something you know nothing about and looking foolish.
Didn't you learn anything from the exchanges between Jon, Anna, and myself early on in this thread?

I wonder why a slave who voluntarily remains a slave is to be marked so everyone knows the difference? Exodus 21:6
I mean if all slaves were, as you claim, merely "indentured servants"?

You seem to be claiming that all slaves were likened to your "indentured servant" claim, however as pointed out to you, the wives and children of your "indentured servants" were not to be turned loose with the "indentured servant" if the Master provided them.[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Exodus 21:1-4[/FONT]

You also ignore the fact that if the slaves come from the surrounding nations that your "indentured servant" claim completely falls through.
I mean, you can even leave slaves to you children as inherited property.[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Leviticus 25:44-46

[/FONT]Seems to me that you would be well advised to take your own advice:

It would be wise to do at least a little research before coming on here to debate something you know nothing about and looking foolish.
​

I know not about anyone else, but I will not be holding my breath that you will heed your own advice.

 

[McBell]

Actually, my post indicated that I have no desire to waste my time educating you on anything unless you're really interested. But I don't think you are, so why bother?

Based on your posts in this thread, I know far more about what the Bible says about slavery than you do.

In fact, based upon the posts in this thread, YOU are the one with the least amount of knowledge concerning what the Bible says about slavery.

 

[Autodidact]

What evidence? You posted a scripture, and I posted an explanation.

Uh huh. So did I. Your point?

I don't know what your buds are demonstrating, but it sure ain't knowledge.

What buds? What are you talking about?

 

[Pegg]

so, if god is merciful, why wouldn't he say something against slavery in the first place...or does the god in your bible bend to the will of man?

he does say something against slavery. He tells us that in a world where he is in control, nobody would be a slave to anyone. Slavery would be done away with under his rule....but he is not ruling the world, mankind are ruling the world independently of him because that is what they chose to do. His words in Eccl 8:9 “Man has dominated man to his injury” indicate that he is not at all happy with how humans have treated each other.
His promise to mankind is that in a world of his making, each one will be free to live a full and happy life. He showed us on a small scale what he will do for all the nations in the near future. He freed the Isrealites from slavery, gave them a good land and looked after them...he made them a free people.
Micah 4:3 “And he will certainly render judgment among many peoples, and set matters straight respecting mighty nations far away. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. They will not lift up sword, nation against nation, neither will they learn war anymore. 4 And they will actually sit, each one under his vine and under his fig tree, and there will be no one making [them] tremble; for the very mouth of Jehovah of armies has spoken [it].”

are you insinuating that slaves have no human rights? i thought god was a champion for the weak and feable...oh yeah, they have to BOW DOWN TO HIM...i forgot god is a jealous god

It is man who have diminished human rights...not God.

Even after Adam and Eve sinned against him, he showed them great dignity by making them proper clothing....they were using fig leaves as a covering, but he gave them something better. So he is more concerned with human rights then mankind ever have been. If mankind were interested in humans rights, we wouldnt need governments, we'd all be living in harmony together. Tell my why in todays world we have millions of refugees living in 'safe zones'?

thats not because of God...that is purely because of man and his domination over others.

 

[Pegg]

Heretic. God has given us the right to buy slaves, and you are perjuring his holy word.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

this was a practice that had been in existence for centuries and for that reason God imposed restrictions on how those slaves could be treated by the Isrealites.

God doesnt control what mankind choose to do. He never did and never will. I think we should stop blaming him for slavery and start looking at ourselves.

 

[McBell]

God doesnt control what mankind choose to do.

What a load of bull ****.
What exactly are the ten commandments?
What about the 613 rules and regulations that God made up and enforced KNOWING BEFOREHAND that man would not be able to follow them?

 

[Pegg]

no difference really.
Other than the time of happening.

actually there was a huge difference in the slavery of the Isrealites...and other worshipers of Jehovah.

Some Isrealites choose to sell themselves into slavery to repay debts. Some slaves were members of the household as in the case of Abrahams slave Eliezer. Eliezer even became Abraham's heir while Abraham was childless. Slaves were free to marry and raise families and the owner was required to support the slaves family.
And while God imposed the law that all hebrew slaves were to be set free after 7 years of service, some chose to stay with their owners which indicates that slavery amongst the Isrealites was nothing like the African slavery (introduced by greedy westerners) that we are more familiar with.

 

[Pegg]

God doesnt control what mankind choose to do./quote]
What a load of bull ****.
What exactly are the ten commandments?
What about the 613 rules and regulations that God made up and enforced KNOWING BEFOREHAND that man would not be able to follow them?

What people fail to comprehend is exactly why God gave the Isrealites his laws. Why he chose a nation to represent him and his standards. Why he chose to set them free and lead them to a land 'flowing with milk and honey'

the purpose of Gods dealings with the nation of Isreal was to show a visible example of what God would do in the future for all the nations on the earth. The prophecies of the Old Testament were fulfilled on a small scale among the Isrealites, but the reality is that they will also be fulfilled on a much grander scale in the near future.

those mosaic laws were to give us some understanding of Gods standards and requirements and while it impossible for us as imperfect people to abide by them 100% now, it wasnt impossible for the perfect man Jesus to abide by them for he fulfilled the law perfectly.
The 10 commandments are based on the principles of love and if we apply love, then we will naturally abide by those 10 commandments without evening having to think about it.

 

[Pegg]

There do seem to be rules, but clearly, if the owner beat the slave almost to death, and the slave died a few days later--no punishment.

Is that your idea of morality?

there actually was punishment. If the slave suffered a permanent injury, then the slave was to be compensated which would come at a loss to the slave owner.

Exodus 21:26 “And in case a man should strike the eye of his slave man or the eye of his slave girl and he really ruins it, he is to send him away as one set free in compensation for his eye. 27 And if it should be the tooth of his slave man or the tooth of his slave girl that he knocks out, he is to send him away as one set free in compensation for his tooth.