Does Islam Need a Reformation?

[Servant_of_the_One1]

It is extremely revealing that Ayaan Hirsi Ali is, in your approximation, worthy of the death penalty for apostasy.

I also thought that you had reformed your position on apostasy and were now more hardline. But in any event, very revealing about the religion of submission.

I was very wrong to follow the more hardline version.
The correct view is that there were lots of hostilities at the time of prophet Muhammad PBUH. So apostates were inclined to join the enemies and to give them informations, ofcourse such apostates deserves death penalty. But then there are apostates who have nothing to do with enemies, they just focuss on their new religion and are not bothering anyone. They fall under the verse: There is no compulsion in religion.

 

[gsa]

I was very wrong to follow the more hardline version.
The correct view is that there were lots of hostilities at the time of prophet Muhammad PBUH. So apostates were inclined to join the enemies and to give them informations, ofcourse such apostates deserves death penalty. But then there are apostates who have nothing to do with enemies, they just focuss on their new religion and are not bothering anyone.

What enemy is Ali conspiring with such that she deserves the death penalty? And what information has she passed along to them that justifies her execution?

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

What enemy is Ali conspiring with such that she deserves the death penalty? And what information has she passed along to them that justifies her execution?

She conspires with the crusaders. And stirrs up the flame of hatred by advising them to attack islam and its followers. Her stay in the usa is just to increase hatred against muslims.

She is more dangerous than netanyahu ever dreamed about to be.

 

[gsa]

She conspires with the crusaders. And stirrs up the flame of hatred by advising them to attack islam and its followers. Her stay in the usa is just to increase hatred against muslims.

She is more dangerous than netanyahu ever dreamed about to be.

Who are the crusaders? Also, how is she stirring the flames of hatred? Here she calls for Muslims to engage in a reformation project.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Who are the crusaders? Also, how is she stirring the flames of hatred? Here she calls for Muslims to engage in a reformation project.

The crusaders are those who protect zionists in the middle east with billions each year, who uses drone attacks that kills thousands of civilians each year, invades sovereign countries.

Her whole post-islam life is based on hate speech. She doesnt want reformation, she wants to cutt islam by its own very roots. And that wont work at all, it will only increase more followers.

 

[gsa]

The crusaders are those who protect zionists in the middle east with billions each year, who uses drone attacks that kills thousands of civilians each year, invades sovereign countries.

Her whole post-islam life is based on hate speech. She doesnt want reformation, she wants to cutt islam by its own very roots. And that wont work at all, it will only increase more followers.

Are you saying that we Americans are crusaders?

And is criticism of Islam equal to hate speech?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Aslong he is not an apostate who gives information to the enemy or joins the enemy, nothing should fall upon him.

Welll...I mean, I'm asking specifically about him since he's a historical figure from roughly the time frame you are proclaiming (a touch later, but still...) and his views were certainly controversial.
Was assuming you knew of him, etc, hence used him as example.

Ibn al-Rawandi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Any opinion on him specifically? It's sometimes hard to know exactly what sentences like 'joins the enemy' means, to be completely honest.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Are you saying that we Americans are crusaders?

And is criticism of Islam equal to hate speech?

gsaseeker, people who do all that i mentioned are waging crusade(christian jihad ) against islam and muslims.
Anyways we can go on for days with this talk.
Matter of fact is , ayaan needs new job. Iam bored by her talks.

 

[gsa]

gsaseeker, people who do all that i mentioned are waging crusade(christian jihad ) against islam and muslims.
Anyways we can go on for days with this talk.
Matter of fact is , ayaan needs new job. Iam bored by her talks.

In the US, the audience is far more receptive to Ali's arguments. Partly because the US is more conservative than Europe, but also because we do not have to tiptoe around speech restrictions the way one must in the Netherlands, France or elsewhere within the EU. So her ideas are getting more air time, and she has liberal/left wing allies here that she probably lacks elsewhere.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

In the US, the audience is far more receptive to Ali's arguments. Partly because the US is more conservative than Europe, but also because we do not have to tiptoe around speech restrictions the way one must in the Netherlands, France or elsewhere within the EU. So her ideas are getting more air time, and she has liberal/left wing allies here that she probably lacks elsewhere.

Keep her there and good luck with that person who suspiciously looks like a bat.
Europe is tired of religious wars, they know the dangers of such people.

 

[gsa]

Keep her there and good luck with that person who suspiciously looks like a bat.
Europe is tired of religious wars, they know the dangers of such people.

Europe is not avoiding her out of any desire to protect religion from criticism; it is a mix of fear of Islamist extremists and a desire to prevent offense to minority sensibilities. And Europe is learning, slowly, that curbing offense to Muslims isn't worth the effort.

I am glad that Ayaan is a citizen of the US and very happy that America welcomed her. I find her to be quite funny and entertaining, as well as informative and passionate. She is an admirable role model for us.

 

[icehorse]

gsaseeker, people who do all that i mentioned are waging crusade(christian jihad ) against islam and muslims.
Anyways we can go on for days with this talk.
Matter of fact is , ayaan needs new job. Iam bored by her talks.

I'm not sure I got your answer to the question: In you opinion, is criticism of Islam hate speech?

 

[atpollard]

I'm not sure I got your answer to the question: In you opinion, is criticism of Islam hate speech?

Not hate speech, an attack requiring defensive Jihad.
Just like when the people of Mecca asked Mohammed to stop attacking their caravans from Medina, Islam responded by murdering on the Holy Month because Allah told Mohammad that it was ok to 'defend yourself' from such attacks (at least that is what the Hadith say).

 

[icehorse]

Not hate speech, an attack requiring defensive Jihad.
Just like when the people of Mecca asked Mohammed to stop attacking their caravans from Medina, Islam responded by murdering on the Holy Month because Allah told Mohammad that it was ok to 'defend yourself' from such attacks (at least that is what the Hadith say).

Ok, so let's say a public figure like Ali criticizes Islam, what would be an acceptable response that would be considered "defensive Jihad"? Would a violent response be considered "defensive Jihad"?

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

I'm not sure I got your answer to the question: In you opinion, is criticism of Islam hate speech?

She deserves death penalty within islamic country because she is insultive, hateful and one who wishes to bring disunity in the country.
Apostates like her are danger to the unity of a muslim country. She will be warned and asked to repent, if that fails the state can choose between execution or exile(execution is best choice in this matter).

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Do you agree that there is a fundamental problem with Islam, and that Islam needs fundamental reform?

It certainly needs to mature and drop the fundamentalism.

 

[JacobEzra.]

Its not Islam that needs reform. As most western muslims are not violent.

Its the countries with a lot of terrorism that need reform.

Usually countries with

****ty education system
****ty corrupted government
****ty healthcare
****ty jobs
Lack of ****ty urban centers and the ones there are run down like the projects.

 

[JacobEzra.]

Aslong he is not an apostate who gives information to the enemy or joins the enemy, nothing should fall upon him. People should be free to enter islam and leave islam as mentioned in quran:
And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve.

However ayaan does not fall on this category of apostasy. Her fate is very dark.
The apostate that deserves death penalty is the one who reveals secrets of muslims to enemy, selling information, or conspiring with the enemy. To deterr other apostates to do the same, an example will be made.

So you'd like to live and rule like an uneducated fool?

 

[JacobEzra.]

There is no reason to follow faulty guidance. Sharia states women as half a witness because supposedly mentally weak.

There is no logical reason to even believe such uneducated, debunked belief

 

[Tumah]

The crusaders are those who protect zionists in the middle east with billions each year, who uses drone attacks that kills thousands of civilians each year, invades sovereign countries.

Her whole post-islam life is based on hate speech. She doesnt want reformation, she wants to cutt islam by its own very roots. And that wont work at all, it will only increase more followers.

You are aware, I hope, that historically the crusades were responsible for the murder of thousands upon thousands of Jews...
Jews fought side-by-side with Muslims soldiers to defend Jerusalem against the Crusaders.
A little ironic that you are now linking the crusaders with protectors of Jews.

Perhaps if you stopped looking at all Christians as Crusaders and all Jews as Zionists, you would be able to take a step away from your hatred.