Does Islam Need a Reformation?

[leibowde84]

Islam does not need a reformation.

Islam is the reformation.

Reforms people from servitude of false items of worship to the worship of the Creator of the Worlds.

Frees people from the worship of man to the worship of the Lord of man.

From having their vision limited to the confines of this world to the vastness of the Hereafter.

None of this speaks to the lack of need for a reformation in any way. You merely dodged the question by stating your SUBJECTIVE BELIEFS about Islam. They don't mean a thing to non-Muslims, who are trying to participate in this discussion honestly and civily.

 

[outhouse]

Do you agree that there is a fundamental problem with Islam, and that Islam needs fundamental reform?

Definitely.

What once was the center for education and knowledge was ruined by a bad iman IMHO over a thousand years ago. And the religion has never recovered.


It now holds the highest amount of illiteracy and produces the most terrorist out of any religious organization. Yet It has no control, nor organization.


It needs it. Its time to go back to a time when the religion led the world, not followed.

 

[outhouse]

Islam is the reformation.

which islam?


just your particular sect correct? the others are not even real muslims correct?


yep heard it all before.


Just curious, you don't see any room for improvement????????????????????

 

[Pastek]

Can you give it to me again? For some reason the link is not working for me. Thanks for your help.

Here it is : Who are the millionaires behind the Islamophobic industry in America? | Middle East Eye

 

[leibowde84]

Here it is : Who are the millionaires behind the Islamophobic industry in America? | Middle East Eye

I read the article, and it is pure speculation. I had a hard time giving it much weight, as it said some things about the film, American Sniper, that were very dishonest. That movie is about a US Military Sniper who was put in an incredibly difficult situation and he showed heroism to the upmost degree. While some people might see it and come up with ill-founded hatred or animocity towards Muslims, the movie in no way seemed to push that viewpoint. If anything, it showed clearly how horrible and brutal the Taliban/Al Qaida occupation were, and how rough the living conditions are in Afghanistan. I came out of it feeling sorry for not only the poor souls that had to live under the regime, but also the confused supporters, obviously brain-washed by misleading propaganda.

That being said, I did not see ANY quotes where politicians or pundits were using Islamophobic language. This is the main reason why I have trouble trusting anything that was expressed in the article.

 

[Pastek]

I read the article, and it is pure speculation. I had a hard time giving it much weight, as it said some things about the film, American Sniper, that were very dishonest. That movie is about a US Military Sniper who was put in an incredibly difficult situation and he showed heroism to the upmost degree. While some people might see it and come up with ill-founded hatred or animocity towards Muslims, the movie in no way seemed to push that viewpoint. If anything, it showed clearly how horrible and brutal the Taliban/Al Qaida occupation were, and how rough the living conditions are in Afghanistan. I came out of it feeling sorry for not only the poor souls that had to live under the regime, but also the confused supporters, obviously brain-washed by misleading propaganda.

Well i haven't watch the movie but my cousin said it was great. So i guess you're right on that point.

That being said, I did not see ANY quotes where politicians or pundits were using Islamophobic language. This is the main reason why I have trouble trusting anything that was expressed in the article.

What about channels like Sky news ? Are you american ? Can you confirm this or not please, i don't really know that much about it :

It says :

"In America, it’s the Sharia law conspiracy theory, which holds that “alongside the use of violence is the strategy of stealth jihad, which aims at the infiltration of national institutions and the assertion of Muslim’s demands through the legal system.” It’s a conspiracy pushed by everyone from the Republican Party to Fox News, and is outlined indepth in Mark Steyn’s book American Alone."

What was more interresting form me in that article was more the millions given to people like Spencer, Geller, Shoebat and Ayan Hirsi.

 

[leibowde84]

Well i haven't watch the movie but my cousin said it was great. So i guess you're right on that point.



What about channels like Sky news ? Are you american ? Can you confirm this or not please, i don't really know that much about it :

It says :

"In America, it’s the Sharia law conspiracy theory, which holds that “alongside the use of violence is the strategy of stealth jihad, which aims at the infiltration of national institutions and the assertion of Muslim’s demands through the legal system.” It’s a conspiracy pushed by everyone from the Republican Party to Fox News, and is outlined indepth in Mark Steyn’s book American Alone."

What was more interresting form me in that article was more the millions given to people like Spencer, Geller, Shoebat and Ayan Hirsi.

When you see things like "pushed by everyone from the Republican Party to Fox News", don't believe what you are reading. They are trying to mislead you. Fox News IS the republican party, and visa versa. Further, as an American I can safely say that the only people ignorant enough to believe this conspiracy theory about Shria law (which I am against allowing enforcement of for very different legal reasons) are the Rush Limbaugh Conservative Tea Party crowd.

To tell you the truth, the article is offensive. It misleads people into thinking that most Americans are conservative with conservative values. Nothing could be further from the truth, as most Americans live in large cities, and most cities are pretty liberal in this country.

I would give this article a 10 on the bunk meter. Look out for other misleading articles from this source.

 

[YmirGF]

 

[leibowde84]

I actually picked up a Quran and read that passage. It seems pretty clear to me that it has nothing to do with members of other religions. The order to "slay" was in reference to Muslims who had claimed to be Muslim, but were still living with non-believers. Further, they were I guess condemning or insulting the actual Muslims when they were with the non-believers. So, they were basically being hypocrites, and Allah gave the order to kill them when their backs were turned (cold-blooded).

I cannot say that any part of me would ever think God would be this cruel/destructive, but that seems to be what the passage says.

 

[Nietzsche]

Islam does not need a reformation.

Islam is the reformation.

Reforms people from servitude of false items of worship to the worship of the Creator of the Worlds.

Frees people from the worship of man to the worship of the Lord of man.

From having their vision limited to the confines of this world to the vastness of the Hereafter.

Your 'reformation' sounds like a declaration of War. Tread lightly, because all the Gods of my people are Gods of War.

My forefathers stood & fought against the first incursion into the land of the Northern Star & Midnight Sun. With the sign of the White-Christ they came, sword in one hand and Bible in the other. You are no different. Under the banner of Crescent Moon and Star, faces hidden like cowards, it does not matter. We will resist. And we will win. Because like with the Cross-men before you, not all Mehmets are so ignorant or vain.

Sieg oder Walhala!

 

[beenie]

Aslong he is not an apostate who gives information to the enemy or joins the enemy, nothing should fall upon him. People should be free to enter islam and leave islam as mentioned in quran:
And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve.

However ayaan does not fall on this category of apostasy. Her fate is very dark.
The apostate that deserves death penalty is the one who reveals secrets of muslims to enemy, selling information, or conspiring with the enemy. To deterr other apostates to do the same, an example will be made.

Yikes. No wonder people fear Muslims. Those who are strong in faith won't leave Islam because of Ayaan. Also, if the religion is so perfect as is, people wouldn't be on the fence, either.

Yeah, but, Hadiths say a lot of crazy things. I feel like most Muslims don't adhere to the same ones, and they don't take them nearly as seriously as the Quran.

Oddly, a lot of Muslims DO take Ahadith very seriously, and I've witnessed some people applying Hadith over Qur'an. Coincidentally, Muhammad specifically told his followers to not record his actions and sayings.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Welll...I mean, I'm asking specifically about him since he's a historical figure from roughly the time frame you are proclaiming (a touch later, but still...) and his views were certainly controversial.
Was assuming you knew of him, etc, hence used him as example.

Ibn al-Rawandi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Any opinion on him specifically? It's sometimes hard to know exactly what sentences like 'joins the enemy' means, to be completely honest.

Bah, I know I'm quoting myself, but any chance of a response on this one @Servant_of_the_One1 ?
I've had too many threads of late where my points are met with silence. Either my microphone isn't working or my questions are being disregarded...

(not just in this thread, in several threads by a few different posters...)

 

[gsa]

Islam does not need a reformation.

Islam is the reformation.

Reforms people from servitude of false items of worship to the worship of the Creator of the Worlds.

Frees people from the worship of man to the worship of the Lord of man.

From having their vision limited to the confines of this world to the vastness of the Hereafter.

It is interesting that a religion that is named submission considers other religions a form of servitude.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Islam does not need a reformation, though that would be a start! ISAML NEEDS TO BE WIPED FROM THE FACE OF EARTH! But let me be clear this is the no different form christianity or any other belief in an objective morality. Only when we realize that morality is defined in terms of humanity can progress be mede.

 

[atpollard]

Islam does not need a reformation, though that would be a start! ISAML NEEDS TO BE WIPED FROM THE FACE OF EARTH! But let me be clear this is the no different form christianity or any other belief in an objective morality. Only when we realize that morality is defined in terms of humanity can progress be mede.

So if I want to eat the heart of my enemy to gain his power, who are you to impose any objective morality on me!
Viva Subjective Morality.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I personally believe that Islam does not need a reformation, but that's just my belief. It is a religion that has a set of rules and regulations that can be taken or left.

So I don't think that is the real question. I think it should be "Do Muslims Need a Reformation"! Here, I'd say that hell yeah they do! Muslims are the humans that do things according to their understandings and desires of and with Islam, not Islam itself. Islam is basically about worshiping a single God alone. Everything else can be ignored at some point, and that is what it matters as I see it.

Just my 0.02$

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

I personally believe that Islam does not need a reformation, but that's just my belief. It is a religion that has a set of rules and regulations that can be taken or left.

So I don't think that is the real question. I think it should be "Do Muslims Need a Reformation"! Here, I'd say that hell yeah they do! Muslims are the humans that do things according to their understandings and desires of and with Islam, not Islam itself. Islam is basically about worshiping a single God alone. Everything else can be ignored at some point, and that is what it matters as I see it.

Just my 0.02$

Why follow Altkaah always ???
Islam is a religion and state ?
Islam does not know God, and one
He connects with Muhammad God ??
Quran is the word of God ??
Are you able to fix the Word of God ???
So there is only one solution
He refuses to be the word of God ??
And then be able to repair ??
Do you know why I say (you used the pious )

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Islam does not accept reform and the reasons are
1. The Koran is the word of God
Is man able to repair the Word of God ??
2. Word of God in the Koran which call for jihad and war and fighting Christians, Jews and other infidels and
To be able to repair the Word of God ??
3 - If you must reform of Islam that rejects the word of God ??
Is a Muslim able to do so
4. Muslim to say that the Qur'an came from the copy in the sky ??
Is reform version of Islam on the ground acceptable ??
The best way is to refuse the Koran and the teachings of the Koran

 

[Smart_Guy]

Why follow Altkaah always ???
Islam is a religion and state ?
Islam does not know God, and one
He connects with Muhammad God ??
Quran is the word of God ??
Are you able to fix the Word of God ???
So there is only one solution
He refuses to be the word of God ??
And then be able to repair ??
Do you know why I say (you used the pious )

What's Altkaah?

 

[Smart_Guy]

Islam does not accept reform and the reasons are

A well put view and opinion and I respect that