Does Islam Need a Reformation?

[Tumah]

Egypt’s El-Sisi reiterates call for ‘religious revolution’ in Islam

 

[NoX]

To stop following stories about Islam and following only Quran would be a nice reformation but not an Islamic reformation. Islam is the same for 1400 years and will be forever the same.

 

[NoX]

77:50 In what Hadith, after this, will they believe ?

7:28 When they commit evil acts, they say, "We found our fathers doing such, and God ordered us to it." Say, "God does not order evil! Do you say about God what you do not know ?"

6:116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

18:54 We have cited in this Quran every example for the people. But the human being is always most argumentative.

22:16 And thus We have revealed the Qur’an in simple and plain verses. God guides him who seeks guidance.

 

[Pastek]

What specifically, with respect to Ali, is a lie? As opposed to for example heated rhetoric. She has said some things that I strongly disagree with. For example, she thinks that it would be better for Muslims to convert to Christianity, but I doubt that conversion to Christianity would change the fundamental problems given that the approach to scripture would likely remain the same.

I don't remember quite well but she said many false things about Islam and she tends to generalize a lot.
If i have time maybe i'll watch one of her video and give an exemple.

By the way, you forgot to give your link.

 

[Nietzsche]

Aslong he is not an apostate who gives information to the enemy or joins the enemy, nothing should fall upon him. People should be free to enter islam and leave islam as mentioned in quran:
And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve.

However ayaan does not fall on this category of apostasy. Her fate is very dark.
The apostate that deserves death penalty is the one who reveals secrets of muslims to enemy, selling information, or conspiring with the enemy. To deterr other apostates to do the same, an example will be made.

"Secrets of Muslims"? What secrets? That many of you beat & burn women to death? That things like ISIS, Al-Quada and its treasure-trove of splinter groups are doing their best to annihilate the dreaded "Western Influence" where women are more than property, where homosexuals aren't beaten to death in the streets, where heretics, pagans & atheists aren't strung up by their entrails? Where an Imam can't get away with raping little boys & girls because the obtuse wording of the Qur'an? Where a woman can dress herself without fear of being stoned to death? Where a boy can say "I do not know if I believe" and not be burned alive? Where maybe, just ****ing maybe, if some ******* decides to burn a Qur'an they're just shunned as the ignorant **** he is rather than beaten to death in the street?

Did it EVER occur to you that these Apostates might turn back to the faith if you stopped acting like monsters?

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

"Secrets of Muslims"? What secrets? That many of you beat & burn women to death? That things like ISIS, Al-Quada and its treasure-trove of splinter groups are doing their best to annihilate the dreaded "Western Influence" where women are more than property, where homosexuals aren't beaten to death in the streets, where heretics, pagans & atheists aren't strung up by their entrails? Where an Imam can't get away with raping little boys & girls because the obtuse wording of the Qur'an? Where a woman can dress herself without fear of being stoned to death? Where a boy can say "I do not know if I believe" and not be burned alive? Where maybe, just ****ing maybe, if some ******* decides to burn a Qur'an they're just shunned as the ignorant **** he is rather than beaten to death in the street?

Did it EVER occur to you that these Apostates might turn back to the faith if you stopped acting like monsters?

Nietz its not black and white as u see it.

Look at europe/west they tolerated apostates to such a point that now homosexuals can openly kiss in public. Well there u have ur freedom!

 

[Nietzsche]

Nietz its not black and white as u see it.

Look at europe/west they tolerated apostates to such a point that now homosexuals can openly kiss in public. Well there u have ur freedom!

You make me ashamed to be human.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Nietz its not black and white as u see it.

Look at europe/west they tolerated apostates to such a point that now homosexuals can openly kiss in public. Well there u have ur freedom!

You think it's worth the occasional killing to ensure that gays only kiss in private? That seems an odd argument, especially when considered from a moral standpoint.

 

[atpollard]

Not hate speech, an attack requiring defensive Jihad.
Just like when the people of Mecca asked Mohammed to stop attacking their caravans from Medina, Islam responded by murdering on the Holy Month because Allah told Mohammad that it was ok to 'defend yourself' from such attacks (at least that is what the Hadith say).

Ok, so let's say a public figure like Ali criticizes Islam, what would be an acceptable response that would be considered "defensive Jihad"? Would a violent response be considered "defensive Jihad"?

To all:
I apologize for my post.
It is not my place to speak for Islam.

I have read the early history of Islam ... the Qur'an, the Hadith and the other books.
I do not read Arabic, so there is a remote possibility that I have read a flawed translation ... but it is unlikely.

I see strong parallels between the message that 'Islam is a religion of peace' proclaimed in North America and the message of the prophet during the early Mecca period (pre-Medina) ... (You will have your religion and I will have mine).
I see strong parallels between the Islam of Europe and the period when the prophet lived in Medina and fought 'defensive' battles against Mecca ... (by attacking trade caravans).
I see strong parallels between the Islam of the Middle East and the period after the prophet conquered Mecca ... (I will drive all unbelievers from Arabia).

The thought that the Muslims that now preach a pre-Medina Islam of peace, will be the parents of the Muslims who will terrorize my children in a new-Medina Islam, and the grandparents of the post-Medina Islam that will demand my grandchildren either convert or die ... fills me with fear and loathing ... it makes it impossible to hear words like 'peaceful Islam' as anything other than a lie to bide time and tolerance while Islam builds an army of hate.
Ask the Eastern Orthodox Christians about the Muslim love and tolerance for 'The People of the Book' in Saudi Arabia.
Ask the Coptic Christians about the Muslim love and tolerance for 'The People of the Book' in Egypt.

However, even if all of my worst fears are not only true, but the truth is even worse ... Jesus (Isa) has not called me to hate and it is still not my place to answer questions on the faith of another.
So I apologize for answering for Islam, and I will refrain from further posting on the subject of Islam except in direct rebuttal to an untrue statement about Islam by a Muslim.

 

[Nietzsche]

You think it's worth the occasional killing to ensure that gays only kiss in private? That seems an odd argument, especially when considered from a moral standpoint.

I don't think he knows what that word means.

 

[leibowde84]

What is exactly her job of that woman ? Is she only making buisness with Islam ?

“In America today, the level of public anti-Muslim bigotry is shockingly high. Politicians and pundits, usually on the right, say things about Muslims that they would be immediately fired for saying about Christians or Jews,” writes Peter Beinhart.

Who are the millionaires behind the Islamophobic industry in America? | Middle East Eye

What i think about Ayaan Hirsi ? An opportunist who doesn't care about Islam, just want to make some money and don't have enought basis of Islam and the muslim world in general (i've watched some of her debates).

She is just like all of this other stupid liars that you can see on the photo. She's not the worst though.

What kind of "slurs" are you referring to when you say that "polititians and pundits say things about Muslims that they would be fired for saying about Christians or Jews? Not saying that it doesn't happen in main-stream media, but I just haven't seen much of it. Can you provide a link to some of these main-stream publications?

 

[leibowde84]

To stop following stories about Islam and following only Quran would be a nice reformation but not an Islamic reformation. Islam is the same for 1400 years and will be forever the same.

That doesn't seem too likely. Every religion has gone through a "reformation" of sorts. Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, etc. Islam is, by far, the youngest religion, so it seems probable that it just hasn't gone through its "reformation" YET. To think that Islam would be exempt from this while all other religions have not been seems biased.

To be clear, I am not saying that it is necessary. I am merely saying that, according to the history of religions throughout the world, it seems inevitable.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Not hate speech, an attack requiring defensive Jihad.
Just like when the people of Mecca asked Mohammed to stop attacking their caravans from Medina, Islam responded by murdering on the Holy Month because Allah told Mohammad that it was ok to 'defend yourself' from such attacks (at least that is what the Hadith say).

Wait, wait...Mohammad was attacking people's caravan's, like robbing and looting? And the people asked him to stop but his response was to kill them? Wtf?!

 

[leibowde84]

Wait, wait...Mohammad was attacking people's caravan's, like robbing and looting? And the people asked him to stop but his response was to kill them? Wtf?!

Yeah, but, Hadiths say a lot of crazy things. I feel like most Muslims don't adhere to the same ones, and they don't take them nearly as seriously as the Quran.

 

[Nietzsche]

To stop following stories about Islam and following only Quran would be a nice reformation but not an Islamic reformation. Islam is the same for 1400 years and will be forever the same.

The surest sign that things need to be changed is when the followers say nothing is wrong.

 

[Nietzsche]

Wait, wait...Mohammad was attacking people's caravan's, like robbing and looting? And the people asked him to stop but his response was to kill them? Wtf?!

In fairness, the story is a bit more complicated than that.

 

[Augustus]

You are aware, I hope, that historically the crusades were responsible for the murder of thousands upon thousands of Jews...
Jews fought side-by-side with Muslims soldiers to defend Jerusalem against the Crusaders.
A little ironic that you are now linking the crusaders with protectors of Jews.

Perhaps if you stopped looking at all Christians as Crusaders and all Jews as Zionists, you would be able to take a step away from your hatred.

Not to forget the Muslims who sided with the crusaders too...

 

[Pastek]

What kind of "slurs" are you referring to when you say that "polititians and pundits say things about Muslims that they would be fired for saying about Christians or Jews? Not saying that it doesn't happen in main-stream media, but I just haven't seen much of it. Can you provide a link to some of these main-stream publications?

It was in the article, i'm not american so i don't know. It gaves some exemple, i put the link in the post.

 

[Abu-Faris]

Islam does not need a reformation.

Islam is the reformation.

Reforms people from servitude of false items of worship to the worship of the Creator of the Worlds.

Frees people from the worship of man to the worship of the Lord of man.

From having their vision limited to the confines of this world to the vastness of the Hereafter.

 

[leibowde84]

It was in the article, i'm not american so i don't know. It gaves some exemple, i put the link in the post.

Can you give it to me again? For some reason the link is not working for me. Thanks for your help.