Does Israel have a "right" to Palestine?

[FearGod]

Why you have to be angry from the facts that Palestine was occupied by force in the year 1948 by the zionists,and till today its called the occupied territories after they had divided the holyland of palestine.

That is a fact like the sun shining.


This video showing ancient palestine before the zionist occupation.

[youtube]3Rylwym2zqo[/youtube]
The stolen rights of the Palestinians in 1948 - YouTube

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

That is a fact like the sun shining.

I love facts. Could you tell me, for example, when Palestine became a national entity and how? Thanks.

 

[FearGod]

I love facts. Could you tell me, for example, when Palestine became a national entity and how? Thanks.

Hi Jay,

i regard you as a friend,if you accepted me to be so.

i don't like to be harsh with anyone and i regard humans to be humans whatever their religion is and i do really appreciate your good posts in the RF.

i am also by showing such facts i aint against the state of israel but i am against the bad treatment to palestinians and i think no one can deny it.

Occupation Facts

To help people understand what’s happening in Palestine more clearly, we continue to collect basic facts and information about different aspects of the Occupation and present them here. While we are not trying to portray Israel as a “rogue state,” we do believe that people in the United States need to understand that the Israeli government’s efforts to continue expanding its borders and to cleanse its state of non-Jewish citizens is subjecting the Palestinian people to abject poverty and horrific suffering. The brutality of the Occupation has escalated to the point where even the United Nations has begun to question Israel’s actions. In this context, we believe that citizens here should begin to seriously question whether the US government, ostensibly as a democratic institution that respects human rights and international law, should continue to offer the Israeli government its unconditional military, financial, and political support. We believe that, if continued, this unconditional backing for Israeli racism and militarism will only bring more suffering and harm to the Palestinian, Israeli, and US people.


Read More : Occupation Facts « Purdue University Students for Justice in Palestine

 

[jazzymom]

Why you have to be angry from the facts that Palestine was occupied by force in the year 1948 by the zionists,and till today its called the occupied territories after they had divided the holyland of palestine.

That is a fact like the sun shining.


This video showing ancient palestine before the zionist occupation.

[youtube]3Rylwym2zqo[/youtube]
The stolen rights of the Palestinians in 1948 - YouTube

I would love to see where you get your facts.

Arab-Israeli Wars: Information from Answers.com

Series of military conflicts fought between various Arab countries and Israel (194849, 1956, 1967, 196970, 1973, and 1982). The first war (194849) began when Israel declared itself an independent state following the United Nations' partition of Palestine. Protesting this move, five Arab countriesEgypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syriaattacked Israel. The conflict ended with Israel gaining considerable territory.

Do you acknowledge that the partition would have created a Palestinian and a Jewish state side by side?

Did the Palestinians say no to a state?

In fact the partition would have created a state for both people and when one side says no and goes to war then in my view nothing was stolen.

I have given the link for the wars fought.

Here is an interesting read on the History of Jordan, West Bank and the Palestinian population.

From the 5th to 10th June 1967, the Six Day War occurred between Israel and the armies of Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. Jordan lost the West Bank and Jerusalem

History of Jordan: Israel, the West Bank, and its Palestinian Population 1918-present. | Bedouin Heritage Project

 

[lunakilo]

Why you have to be angry from the facts that Palestine was occupied by force in the year 1948 by the zionists,and till today its called the occupied territories after they had divided the holyland of palestine.

That is a fact like the sun shining.


This video showing ancient palestine before the zionist occupation.

[youtube]3Rylwym2zqo[/youtube]
The stolen rights of the Palestinians in 1948 - YouTube

Give it a rest FearGod.

Some romantic photoes put to music...
I could probably find a similar piece about North Korea.

If you claim you "have to be angry" at the zionists for actions relating to Palestine you have to back it up with more than pretty photoes.

 

[FearGod]

In fact the partition would have created a state for both people and when one side says no and goes to war then in my view nothing was stolen.

if somebody asked you to give him USD 20,000 and you said no,
then if he'll get it from you by force,then nobody should blame him because he asked you first.

Similar thing if he want to share your house or homeland by asking first,but if you refused,then he got the right to have it by force.

Sounds logic. :yes: not stolen

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Hi Jay,

i regard you as a friend,if you accepted me to be so.

As-Salamu Alaykum and thank you.

i am also by showing such facts i aint against the state of israel but i am against the bad treatment to palestinians and i think no one can deny it.

I have zero tolerance for the racist treatment of Palestinians.

i am also by showing such facts i aint against the state of israel but i am against the bad treatment to palestinians and i think no one can deny it.

Occupation Facts

To help people understand what’s happening in Palestine more clearly, we continue to collect basic facts and information about different aspects of the Occupation and present them here. While we are not trying to portray Israel as a “rogue state,” we do believe ...

I very much appreciate that you are not trying to portray Israel as a rogue state. You thereby show yourself to be something quite different than people such as Ahmadinejad and groups suchs as Hamas and Hezbollah.

I also believe that what you characterize as the 'Occupation' warrants serious discussion.

But first ...

... you reference my question but then seem to ignore it. Again: could you please tell me when Palestine became a national entity and how?

Again, thanks.

 

[FearGod]

As-Salamu Alaykum and thank you.


I have zero tolerance for the racist treatment of Palestinians.


I very much appreciate that you are not trying to portray Israel as a rogue state. You thereby show yourself to be something quite different than people such as Ahmadinejad and groups suchs as Hamas and Hezbollah.

I also believe that what you characterize as the 'Occupation' warrants serious discussion.

But first ...

... you reference my question but then seem to ignore it. Again: could you please tell me when Palestine became a national entity and how?

Again, thanks.

Thank you Jay,

No of course i aint with such bad thoughts,jews have the right to live but what i am trying to say that there is injustice in treating people of palestine and we can't neglect such facts.

Palestine exist longtime ago and were lived by palestinians

reference : Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[lunakilo]

I would love to see where you get your facts.

Arab-Israeli Wars: Information from Answers.com

Series of military conflicts fought between various Arab countries and Israel (194849, 1956, 1967, 196970, 1973, and 1982). The first war (194849) began when Israel declared itself an independent state following the United Nations' partition of Palestine. Protesting this move, five Arab countriesEgypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syriaattacked Israel. The conflict ended with Israel gaining considerable territory.

Do you acknowledge that the partition would have created a Palestinian and a Jewish state side by side?

Did the Palestinians say no to a state?

In fact the partition would have created a state for both people and when one side says no and goes to war then in my view nothing was stolen.

I have given the link for the wars fought.

Here is an interesting read on the History of Jordan, West Bank and the Palestinian population.

From the 5th to 10th June 1967, the Six Day War occurred between Israel and the armies of Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. Jordan lost the West Bank and Jerusalem

History of Jordan: Israel, the West Bank, and its Palestinian Population 1918-present. | Bedouin Heritage Project

Could yoy help me out here?

In 1948 Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria attacked Israel.
In 1950 Jordan annexed the West Bank.
In 1967 Israel occupied the West Bank but did not annex it.
In 1988 Jordan ceded its claims to the West Bank.

So to whom does the West Bank belong?

 

[Tarheeler]

FearGod, your analogy is only accurate if the area was devoid of Jews prior to 1948.

It wasn't. There has been a Jewish presence in the area for a very, very long time.

 

[FanaticStudy]

For the most part it's pretty simple really:

Some folks come with the backing of the worlds most powerful nation behind them.

They now tell you to get out of your own home, where your family have lived for generations, because they claim to have some "right" to live there and you don't.

Unless you completely lack empathy and reason, I'm sure you can understand why Israel shouldn't be able to do what they're doing.

Stealing other peoples home where they already live is not something I consider acceptable, and I can promise you, I wouldn't go willingly, I would fight for my home, just like everyone else.

I really feel bad about what happened to the Jews, and what have had happened, it's horrible, but it doesn't justify treating other people very bad also. 2 wrongs don't make a right. It's an incredible tough situation, because where do you put jews without throwing someone else out of their homes?

All in all though, I really feel with the Palestinian people, and as awful as it is, I can even sympathize with their war/terror effort against the people of Israel, I'd fight with tooth and nail myself.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Palestine exist longtime ago ...

Yes, it did, as any number of things, often under the absolute influence of numerous competing empires.

... and were lived by palestinians.

People certainly lived there, but when did they become "Palestinians"? Are the people living throughout the 1st Temple Period Palestinians? All of them?

What about the people living there after the destruction of the First Temple?

What about the people living there duriung the Persian and Greek periods? Were these to be deemed Palestinians? All of them? Some of them?

What about the people living there after the Roman conquest? After the Crusades? Under the Ottomans? Under the British Mandate?

There was clearly a place on a map called Palestine. It was a useful geographic designation. But to acknowledge this is not at all the same as acknowledging the existence of a national entity with a national identity.

 

[jazzymom]

For the most part it's pretty simple really:

Some folks come with the backing of the worlds most powerful nation behind them.

They now tell you to get out of your own home, where your family have lived for generations, because they claim to have some "right" to live there and you don't.

Unless you completely lack empathy and reason, I'm sure you can understand why Israel shouldn't be able to do what they're doing.

Stealing other peoples home where they already live is not something I consider acceptable, and I can promise you, I wouldn't go willingly, I would fight for my home, just like everyone else.

I really feel bad about what happened to the Jews, and what have had happened, it's horrible, but it doesn't justify treating other people very bad also. 2 wrongs don't make a right. It's an incredible tough situation, because where do you put jews without throwing someone else out of their homes?

All in all though, I really feel with the Palestinian people, and as awful as it is, I can even sympathize with their war/terror effort against the people of Israel, I'd fight with tooth and nail myself.

If it were that simple, but it is not. Jews have lived in the middle east for 1000s of years and they predate Islam in the middle east.

The land of Palestine was a territory as was all the area of the middle east and made up the ottoman empire.

A partition was to happen to make a Jewish and Palestinian states and they were supposed to both have a state.

It was voted on by the UN and got a majority vote.

One side turned it down and the surrounding Arab nations attacked the forming state of Israel and they lost.

The surrounding Arab countries made refugees out of their Jewish populations and Israel took these refugees in.

So it is not as cut and dry as you say.

Land was not stolen. The Palestinians were offered a state and they said no.

What I do understand it that Israel has been attacked for 64 years by the Arab neighbors and by the Palestinians during both intifadas and when one is attacked the protection of its citizens is paramount.

It would be much different if 64 years ago both sides said yes to a state and moved forward to nation building so both groups could live in peace but that did not happen.

 

[jazzymom]

Thank you Jay,

No of course i aint with such bad thoughts,jews have the right to live but what i am trying to say that there is injustice in treating people of palestine and we can't neglect such facts.

Palestine exist longtime ago and were lived by palestinians

reference : Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Palestine was named that by the Romans after the final revolt by the Jews living in Judea. At that time it was populated by Jews and under Roman occupation.

But you and I both know that the land was inhabited by both Jews and Muslims who while it was the territory of Palestine were Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Muslims.


We waste our time trying to say who was there first. Judaism is older then Islam and the Jews were there. I suspect that when Islam came into being and was was exported out of the Arabian Peninsula it found converts in Palestine.

Jews Are The Genetic Brothers Of Palestinians, Syrians, And Lebanese
Jews are the genetic brothers of Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese, and they all share a common genetic lineage that stretches back thousands of years.

If the DNA connects both groups then they both have a long history in the region but the Jews were there in a time before Islam existed as a religion.

 

[Shermana]

For the most part it's pretty simple really:

What's simple is that you obviously haven't actually read the history like most others of the anti-Israel and you think your propaganda talking point rhetoric is a replacement for actual facts. It's amazing how many Pro-Palestinians find actual facts to be so inconvenient.

Some folks come with the backing of the worlds most powerful nation behind them.

Oh they did? So you're under the assumption that Britain and the USA dropped the Jews off and supported their independence? That would be why the USA supported Egypt in 1948 and why Britain tried to push the Jews down. I'm also assuming you have absolutely no idea about the Soviet aid to the Arabs. Or that many Palestinians at the time were 1st-3rd generation Ottoman immigrants from Egypt and Syria.

They now tell you to get out of your own home, where your family have lived for generations, because they claim to have some "right" to live there and you don't.

I'm assuming you have absolutely no idea that the Jews bought their land from the Arabs at high prices, and that the Arabs declared war on the Jews first.

Unless you completely lack empathy and reason, I'm sure you can understand why Israel shouldn't be able to do what they're doing.

Looks like what you lack is enough intellectual honesty to look up the basic historical facts, but you have plenty of desire to charge in without facts. Like I said, facts are anathema to the anti-Israeli position. That's why the pro-Palestinians enjoy the great oceans of ignorance most people have about the situation, such as with your case.

Stealing other peoples home where they already live is not something I consider acceptable, and I can promise you, I wouldn't go willingly, I would fight for my home, just like everyone else.

So you have no problem then with the Arab immigrants who declared war on the Jews who legally bought most of their land and trying to steal their land? And perhaps you have no problem with all the land the Arabs took in outright conquest? Or is that you have a problem with objective historicity? Have you even bothered to look at the Israeli point of view or do you automatically assume the Israelis are wrong? If you agree that you would fight tooth and nail, would you complain then if an Isareli 155mm shell scattered your entrails while you were fighting against them or would and call that an atrocity? Would your tooth and nail fight involve bombing civilian Pizzerias?

I really feel bad about what happened to the Jews, and what have had happened, it's horrible, but it doesn't justify treating other people very bad also. 2 wrongs don't make a right. It's an incredible tough situation, because where do you put jews without throwing someone else out of their homes?

If 2 wrongs don't make a right, then don't make a wrong by blindly supporting the side that's been trying to massacre the Jews who peacefully bought most of their land.

All in all though, I really feel with the Palestinian people, and as awful as it is, I can even sympathize with their war/terror effort against the people of Israel, I'd fight with tooth and nail myself.

Okay, so you sympathize with the massacre of Israeli civilians and the squatting by Syrian immigrants who now dub themselves "Palestinians". Now do you sympathize with the concept of actually reading the history and getting the facts or do you sympathize with the concept of going by the barest bottom-deonominator propaganda the Palestinians spoon feed you, under the assumption that objective history sites are all Zionist-propaganda?

 

[Shermana]

Could yoy help me out here?

In 1948 Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria attacked Israel.
In 1950 Jordan annexed the West Bank.
In 1967 Israel occupied the West Bank but did not annex it.
In 1988 Jordan ceded its claims to the West Bank.

So to whom does the West Bank belong?

The "West Bank" (Historically titled JUDEA SAMARIA, let me repeat that for you JUDEA SAMARIA) belongs easily to the Israelis. The Jordanians stole it, then the Palestinians started complaining only after Israel took it back almost 2 decades later after JORDAN ATTACKED FIRST in the 1967 war. Under Jordanian occupation, you heard not a peep from them for some reason. Why do you suppose that is? In fact, the greatest concentration of Jews historically in the Palestinian region has been in Judea-Samaria. So anyone with half a brain should easily recognize that Jordan and the Palestinians have absolutely no real claim to Judea-Samaria that is in any way greater than the Israeli claim.

Israel would have annexed Judea-Samaria if it weren't for the big noses of the rest of the world getting in the way. No need to worry about Turkish slaughter of Kurds or Chinese slaughter of Uighurs or French slaughter of Algerians, or Brazilians slaughtering Natives, because Israel taking back Judea-Samaria is a big no no for some reason to the rest of the "international community".

 

[lunakilo]

Am I invisible?

Why are you all ignoring my posts?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Am I invisible?

Why are you all ignoring my posts?

No doubt it's your avatar ...

... but Shermana did 'respond' here.​

 

[FearGod]

If it were that simple, but it is not. Jews have lived in the middle east for 1000s of years and they predate Islam in the middle east.

The land of Palestine was a territory as was all the area of the middle east and made up the ottoman empire.

A partition was to happen to make a Jewish and Palestinian states and they were supposed to both have a state.

It was voted on by the UN and got a majority vote.

One side turned it down and the surrounding Arab nations attacked the forming state of Israel and they lost.

The surrounding Arab countries made refugees out of their Jewish populations and Israel took these refugees in.

So it is not as cut and dry as you say.

Land was not stolen. The Palestinians were offered a state and they said no.

What I do understand it that Israel has been attacked for 64 years by the Arab neighbors and by the Palestinians during both intifadas and when one is attacked the protection of its citizens is paramount.

It would be much different if 64 years ago both sides said yes to a state and moved forward to nation building so both groups could live in peace but that did not happen.

Thats not true ,zionist came to palestine and they devided the state of palestine and scattered the palestinians to the nearby nations.

[youtube]vXKba7SHPvw[/youtube]
how the Arab israeli conflict started-history of Palestine-1948 - YouTube

 

[Shermana]

Thats not true ,zionist came to palestine and they devided the state of palestine and scattered the palestinians to the nearby nations.

Are you deliberaetly avoiding the fact that the Palestinians declared war first and the Israelis simply fought back? So were the Israelis not allowed to defend themselves and make counter offensives by your logic? Have you by chance taken a minute to actually read the actual Historical account or do you just dismiss any history site as Zionist propaganda?

Are you also deliberately ignoring that the Zionists bought almost all the land they held straight from the Arabs at ridiculously high prices?