Does Israel have a "right" to Palestine?

[jasonwill2]

Part of learning though means you need to also go out and do some research. And maybe this is just a failure of the education system in the U.S. But it should have been taught that during WWII, as well as before and after, Jews were turned away quite often. Palestine was one option that they had.

Maybe I misunderstood what someone said earlier, but I thought someone said that some countries were willing to welcome them.

Are you telling me that they were, after World War Two, not allowed immigration or citizenship in Allied Countries, including the US?

Also for the majority of my High School education I wasn't in Public School, so if you want to blame anyone for what you perceive as a poor education you can blame the Christians who wrote the curriculum I was taught.

 

[Rakhel]

International response to the Holocaust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

History of the Jews in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Displaced Jews

Eastern European Post WWII

United States Policy Toward Jewish Refugees, 1941-1952

 

[jasonwill2]

International response to the Holocaust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

History of the Jews in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Displaced Jews

Eastern European Post WWII

United States Policy Toward Jewish Refugees, 1941-1952

Thank you, I will read through these.

 

[Dingbat]

Maybe I misunderstood what someone said earlier, but I thought someone said that some countries were willing to welcome them.

Are you telling me that they were, after World War Two, not allowed immigration or citizenship in Allied Countries, including the US?

Also for the majority of my High School education I wasn't in Public School, so if you want to blame anyone for what you perceive as a poor education you can blame the Christians who wrote the curriculum I was taught.

Sadly most nations didn't want the Jews back in Europe or in their own homelands. America was somewhat open but did place restraints on who could come and go...though oddly enough useful Nazis were given a pass. This is where I have real sympathy for the Israelis as largely their state was born out of rejection by the European powers even the Soviets were excited by the idea of ejecting their domestic Zionists. It really is an awkward time you rescue these people from camps and untold horrors then tell them to go somewhere else...please.

I find the handling of Israel by the Western powers was not handled very well and in many ways similar to the handling of land after WWI. Past is the past this point though and it just needs to be accepted by everyone that Israel is here to stay. That doesn't mean there can't be a two state solution but all this talk of wiping out Israel or taking huge swathes of land back just isn't realistic or helpful for a true peace process.

 

[lunakilo]

Who ever said that 'everything is legit'. Some of it is legit, some of it is a mandate of international law and voting in the UN, and some of it is not.
If you believe that all the fault falls on the Israelis, then you are either naive, or you really want to believe that.


You're joking right?
Do you have any idea about the attempts of Jewish refugees during WWII to save their families and themselves?
I suggest you get a basic education for yourself, because you are not only disgracefully patronizing in this post, but you are also painfully willingly ignorant.

England my lionheart made quite a sensible post about that earlier:

Dr. Chaim Weizmann, who was to become Israel's first President in 1948, is quoted in the Manchester Guardian as saying: "The world seemed to be divided into two parts – those places where the Jews could not live and those where they could not enter."

The countries represented at the Evian conference in 1938 were:

Australia, the Argentine Republic, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, United Kingdom, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, France, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Ireland, Mexico, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Sweden, Switzerland, the United States, Uruguay, and Venezuela. These countries were all regarded as potential places of refuge. The Union of South Africa, which sent an observer, and Polish and Rumanian representatives attended in an unofficial capacity, along with Germany were not considered as countries of possible immigration.

Évian Conference - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Looks like the whole world shared in the guilty concience.

 

[lunakilo]

Yes, Israel has a right to exist if that's what you were saying.

Arabs declared war on Israel just hours after it was created and got thrashed. They lost fair and square - and in war to the victor goes the spoils.

Besides there alrady is a "Palestinian" state. It's called Jordan.

Are you Shermana's clone?

Anyway... Yes there was a war (several actually) and yes the jews thrashed the arabs.

1948 Arab-Israeli war (yes I do admit I get most of my info about this from wikipedia, but unless someone can tell me that the info is wrong I am going to go with it.)

"Within hours of the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, five of the seven countries of the Arab League at that time, namely Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, backed by Saudi Arabian and Yemenite contingents invaded territory in the former British Mandate of Palestine on the night of 14–15 May 1948."

But how does that relate to the palestinian people in Gaza and on the west bank?
It doesn't say the people of the west bank and Gaza invaded Israel, it sounds like neighboring countries attacked Israel, and in the wars that followed Israel ended up occupying pieces of land (like the west bank and Gaza) which were not originally a part of the state of Israel nor did they belong to any of the neighboring countries.

If Israel conquered land from its neighbors and annexed it as part of their country, I could probably see the justification for claiming that "they lost fair and square - and in war to the victor goes the spoils", but the occupied territories have not been annexed, they remain in a state of limbo, they are just occupied.

What about the people who live on that land?
What about all those people who just live there and just want to have some sort of a decent life?
Don't they have rights?
Do you agree with Shermana that they should just move to Jordan (even if Jordan probably won't recieve them)?
Do you feel these territories belong to Israel, and if so why hasn't Israel annexed them?
If you don't feel these territories belong to Israel then why is Israel still messing with them?

 

[Caladan]

No riddles,but just both of us know that we'll stay for sometime and we'll leave to the other world and we'll get nothing with us but our deeds and sincerity which will do account.

My question to you with my hope that you'll answer with sincerity.

Do you think that Israel have the right to bring the jews whom lived hundreds of years in Russia,Europe,Africa..etc only because they are jews and have the right to live in palestine as their new home.

Do you think it is right for palestinians to bring Muslims from Iran,Pakistan,Algeria..etc to live in Palestine as one of their right only because they are muslims.

What do you think. ?

I'll put on hold the fact that this is a very childish question which shows complete lack of comprehension of the situation, and I will honestly answer it anyway.
Dozens of Muslim countries were created in modern times, and one Jewish country was created. The Jewish country was created for Jews, and Arab, Iranian and other countries were created for Muslim cultures and ethnic groups.
Iranians don't need to immigrate anywhere, they already received a state, Pakistanis received a state and Algerians received a state.
You seem to say that this is not enough. Not only did all these Muslim societies received states, they should also populate the Jewish state of Israel.
That is absurd.
With all the countries in the region that were created in modern times, Israel seems to be the only one where the there are no civil wars or revolutions. This is a testament to just how successful the Israeli state has been in overcoming challenges, while the Middle Eastern states which question Israel's right for existence cannot even avoid the collapse of their own societies or governments as Shiites, Sunnis, Christians, Kurds, and other groups are locked in ethnic strife which challenges the fragile fabric of existence in these states.

Not only that, but to further answer your question. Jews from countries in which they are clearly not a majority immigrated to a Jewish majority state. While many Muslims immigrate out of Muslim majority states already. Now there's an irony. Israel has succeeded where these other countries failed. People actually immigrate to Israel, while millions of people flee failed Muslim states.

 

[FearGod]

Yes, Israel has a right to exist if that's what you were saying.

Arabs declared war on Israel just hours after it was created and got thrashed. They lost fair and square - and in war to the victor goes the spoils.

Besides there alrady is a "Palestinian" state. It's called Jordan.

No country in the world will accept someone to occupy their land and war is a normal thing in this case.

Try to get a piece of land in the USA and declare it as the land of Israel or from France or whatever,and see if they will give the jews a land to be for them in peaceful way.

imagine that the Americans will say that we'll occupy Britain because their grandfathers were living there before we migrated to the American lands.

And who told you that Jordan and palestine were one state,what evidence you got and what it was called before 1948,palestine or jordan.

Please show us one historical evidence.

But IMHO instead of looking for whom has the right to live in Palestine,it is better to look how both can live in peace instead of supporting the jews and drive out palestinians after their land have been divided and their lives became a misery.

[youtube]o7bkJVHwcD4[/youtube]
Most Palestinian children suffer shell shock - YouTube

 

[FearGod]

I'll put on hold the fact that this is a very childish question which shows complete lack of comprehension of the situation, and I will honestly answer it anyway.
Dozens of Muslim countries were created in modern times, and one Jewish country was created. The Jewish country was created for Jews, and Arab, Iranian and other countries were created for Muslim cultures and ethnic groups.
Iranians don't need to immigrate anywhere, they already received a state, Pakistanis received a state and Algerians received a state.
You seem to say that this is not enough. Not only did all these Muslim societies received states, they should also populate the Jewish state of Israel.
That is absurd.
With all the countries in the region that were created in modern times, Israel seems to be the only one where the there are no civil wars or revolutions. This is a testament to just how successful the Israeli state has been in overcoming challenges, while the Middle Eastern states which question Israel's right for existence cannot even avoid the collapse of their own societies or governments as Shiites, Sunnis, Christians, Kurds, and other groups are locked in ethnic strife which challenges the fragile fabric of existence in these states.

Not only that, but to further answer your question. Jews from countries in which they are clearly not a majority immigrated to a Jewish majority state. While many Muslims immigrate out of Muslim majority states already. Now there's an irony. Israel has succeeded where these other countries failed. People actually immigrate to Israel, while millions of people flee failed Muslim states.

Thank you for calling my question as childish whereas i am at the age of 50,that show your kindness.

 

[Rakhel]

is it really that hard for for a Pro-Palestinian to answer a question without bring out the propaganda videos?

 

[Rakhel]

apparently it is.
I am so shocked
:sarcasm:

 

[FearGod]

is it really that hard for for a Pro-Palestinian to answer a question without bring out the propaganda videos?

That is presstv,just showing facts.

 

[Rakhel]

That is presstv,just showing facts.

That have absolutely nothing to do with the OP.

 

[FearGod]

That have absolutely nothing to do with the OP.

We are talking about the rights for both,i am just asking that it is ok for them to live together but with justice and i can see that palestinians are oppressed and got no rights.

 

[Rakhel]

This is the question in the OP

If anyone has an opinion on either the formation of modern Israel or Israel's situations in the Middle East politics and world events, I would like to hear it.

Not how are the evil zionists are an insult to "our" daily lives.

 

[Caladan]

Thank you for calling my question as childish whereas i am at the age of 50,that show your kindness.

You are right. I was being kind. Your question was awful, non educated, non contributing, and showed a complete lack of regard for the fact that Iranians, Pakistanis, Algerians and over 50 other Muslim states already gained independence.
In addition I see you have absolutely nothing to say about my answer to you. Should I wait for off topic Talmudic paragraphs which embody the evil soul of the Jew to prove some obscure point about this subject?

 

[FearGod]

You are right. I was being kind. Your question was awful, non educated, non contributing, and showed a complete lack of regard for the fact that Iranians, Pakistanis, Algerians and over 50 other Muslim states already gained independence.
In addition I see you have absolutely nothing to say about my answer to you. Should I wait for off topic Talmudic paragraphs which embody the evil soul of the Jew to prove some obscure point about this subject?

i aint surprize of jews act which is affected by the talmud teachings that they are special people and only jews can be an israeli,whereas in the other parts of the world you can see christians,muslims and jews have one nationality such as muslim american or muslim spanish or christain endian or christian syrian,but israel is a right for the jews only.

IMO that is kind of racism.

 

[Caladan]

i aint surprize of jews act which is affected by the talmud teachings that they are special people and only jews can be an israeli,whereas in the other parts of the world you can see christians,muslims and jews have one nationality such as muslim american or muslim spanish or christain endian or christian syrian,but israel is a right for the jews only.

IMO that is kind of racism.

Well let me educate you to the fact that Israel has Arab members of parliament and even Arabs who have reached the position of ministers in the Israeli government. Israel seems to be the first nation in the Middle East which gave voting rights to Arab women. And while Jews from Arab lands were fleeing persecution, Israel has offered Israeli citizenship to the Arabs who remained in its territory after the Arabs lost the war in 1948, and they have accepted.
So you area dead wrong, Israel has a seizable Arab citizenry.

 

[Caladan]

Furthermore. I find it honourable and I praise all the Jewish members here who refrained from sinking to the same level as 'FearGod' and have avoided quoting the Hadith or the Qur'an in order to stereotype Arabs or Muslims.

 

[Rakhel]

Furthermore. I find it honourable and I praise all the Jewish members here who refrained from sinking to the same level as 'FearGod' and have avoided quoting the Hadith or the Qur'an in order to stereotype Arabs or Muslims.

Well that would be no fun.