Does omnipotent mean God can do anything?

[Willamena]

Nothing that violates logic exists. That's a self-defeating proposition and can't be true, let alone rationally uttered.

Edit: By "that" I mean the proposition that something can exist "outside" of logic.

Oh, you're right. There's no such thing as nonsense. Everything makes sense.

 

[PolyHedral]

I'm confused. I thought everything did make sense?

 

[Meow Mix]

Oh, you're right. There's no such thing as nonsense. Everything makes sense.

Not necessarily, there can be things beyond our cognition: but we can still know, and absolutely so, that if they exist they are logical.

 

[Midnight Pete]

You're confusing logic with changing or breaking physical laws (or using laws we're unaware of).

Rising from the dead is logically possible. It's not physically practical, nor is it anywhere within the domain of our power at this point or possibly ever, but it doesn't violate logic.

I think the reason you're so adamant that God can defy logic is because you're confusing logic with the universe's contingent physical laws. Logic isn't contingent though.

You calling me "adamant" is pretty rich.

 

[Willamena]

Not necessarily, there can be things beyond our cognition: but we can still know, and absolutely so, that if they exist they are logical.

So, nonsense does exist?

I was right!

 

[Meow Mix]

You calling me "adamant" is pretty rich.

It isn't helpful to imagine an opponent in a discussion is just being thick skulled when she's justified her every assertion and objection.

Sometimes people stick to their guns because truly no one has offered a sufficient objection.

 

[Meow Mix]

So, nonsense does exist?

I was right!

As long as you're not implying it's outside of logic, a nonsensical assertion. Do you agree that even things we don't or can't understand are still logical?

 

[Midnight Pete]

I'm confused. I thought everything did make sense?

Not everything make sense, and logic is violated more often than you'd probably care to to contemplate.

 

[Meow Mix]

Not everything make sense, and logic is violated more often than you'd probably care to to contemplate.

How?

So far every example you've offered that you believed represented violating logic has actually not had anything to do with logic but rather just physical, contingent laws.

What evidence do you base your assertion on that logic is violated at all, let alone many times?

 

[Willamena]

Do you agree that even things we don't or can't understand are still logical?

I wouldn't disagree.

 

[PolyHedral]

Not everything make sense, and logic is violated more often than you'd probably care to to contemplate.

No it isn't. I think I have a perfectly consistent view of the universe. As far as I can tell, everything does make sense. What Meow said. When does logic get violated?

 

[Meow Mix]

I wouldn't disagree.

Then what did you mean by these statements, which seemed to indicate that you think it's possible for logic to be violated?

God doesn't have to defy logic in order to be logic both existing and not existing. On the other hand, in being defiance, he lends defying logic meaning.

Right. If God is entity, it both is and is not entity; but of course, God isn't entity.

Illogical assertions highlighted in red, unless I'm misunderstanding you.

 

[Midnight Pete]

As long as you're not implying it's outside of logic, a nonsensical assertion. Do you agree that even things we don't or can't understand are still logical?

Imagine a bug crawling around on a sidewalk in New York City. Obviously, the bug doesn't comprehend the existence of NYC, but is that because NYC defies logic? It defies bug-logic, but not logic altogether.

 

[Willamena]

Then what did you mean by these statements, which seemed to indicate that you think it's possible for logic to be violated?

"God doesn't have to defy logic in order to be logic both existing and not existing. On the other hand, in being defiance, he lends defying logic meaning."
"Right. If God is entity, it both is and is not entity; but of course, God isn't entity."

Do things exist, and do things not exist? "God" is as much logic and meaning as it is anything (and nothing). God is most akin to existence, in that neither is entity.

 

[PolyHedral]

But, for a sufficiently intelligent bug, bug-logic is logic altogether.

 

[Midnight Pete]

"God doesn't have to defy logic in order to be logic both existing and not existing. On the other hand, in being defiance, he lends defying logic meaning."
"Right. If God is entity, it both is and is not entity; but of course, God isn't entity."

Do things exist, and do things not exist? "God" is as much logic and meaning as it is anything (and nothing). God is most akin to existence, in that neither is entity.

What if the concepts of "existing" and "non-existing" do not accurately describe what God is?

 

[Meow Mix]

Imagine a bug crawling around on a sidewalk in New York City. Obviously, the bug doesn't comprehend the existence of NYC, but is that because NYC defies logic? It defies bug-logic, but not logic altogether.

There's no such thing as "bug-logic" or "human-logic" or "dolphin-logic," there is just logic.

Logic isn't something that we only think we know, or that we're only reasonably sure we know... logic is incorrigible, we absolutely know logic and we absolutely know that our knowledge of logic is absolute. (So on, ad infinitum, since it's infinitely justified per its incorrigibility by definition).

Yes, there might exist things that we don't understand -- just like a bug probably doesn't understand NYC. I agree with that.

But we can absolutely know that anything that exists is logical. That is an absolute truth, infinitely justified, and impossible to doubt or object to -- because it's incorrigible. Even attempting to doubt it for the sake of argument only proves that it's true and self-contradicts.

 

[Meow Mix]

"God doesn't have to defy logic in order to be logic both existing and not existing. On the other hand, in being defiance, he lends defying logic meaning."
"Right. If God is entity, it both is and is not entity; but of course, God isn't entity."

Do things exist, and do things not exist? "God" is as much logic and meaning as it is anything (and nothing). God is most akin to existence, in that neither is entity.

I guess I'm just having trouble deciphering what you mean.

Are you saying God exists and not-exists at the same time and in the same respect or not? I find the way you word things to be nebulous sometimes and it confuses me.

 

[Willamena]

What if the concepts of "existing" and "non-existing" do not accurately describe what God is?

Indeed, they don't. There are no words...

 

[Meow Mix]

What if the concepts of "existing" and "non-existing" do not accurately describe what God is?

God must either exist or not-exist, there's no in between. It's sort of like being pregnant: you either are or you aren't. It's a true dichotomy.