No, logic is external to humans. We don't create it, we observe it. We create the symbols and the words to describe it with but logic isn't a human invention.
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Does omnipotent mean God can do anything?
- Thread starter Just_me_Mike
- Start date
No, logic is external to humans. We don't create it, we observe it. We create the symbols and the words to describe it with but logic isn't a human invention.
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
Where does logic come from if we are only the observers? What is the source of it?
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
Nowhere. It is a requirement for anything to be meaningful. It is assumed to exist so that statements may proceed.
To say that God does not follow logic is, by definition, a nonsensical and meaningless statement.
To say that God does not follow logic is, by definition, a nonsensical and meaningless statement.
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And this is how "gods" and "demons" come to be.
Technically, that's the only thing "he" can "do" --although "doing" isn't the right verb, because existing and not-existing aren't actions.
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
If God defies logic, all statements are meaningless.
Including the previous one.
Including the previous one.
God doesn't have to defy logic in order to be logic both existing and not existing. On the other hand, in being defiance, he lends defying logic meaning.
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
No, an entity existing and not existing in the same respect is nonsensical. No possible reasoning gets you out of the contradiction.
Right. If God is entity, it both is and is not entity; but of course, God isn't entity.
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
It still doesn't make sense for God to be able to violate logic. Propositions must either be true, false, or undecidable, and anything changing that is automatically rendered nonsensical.
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
God does indeed defy logic, but all statements are not meaningless. Statements made by us operate inside logic because we are bound by it. We're limited, mortal, conditioned by space and time. God is none of those things.
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
No. God defying logic means that there is a contradiction; A contradiction means that any statement can be proven, including that there is not a contradiction. After that, "truth" walks out the door.
A contradiction in reasoning means that whatever premise you started with is wrong. The premise is, in this case, "God can defy logic."
A contradiction in reasoning means that whatever premise you started with is wrong. The premise is, in this case, "God can defy logic."
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
A good way to describe the limitations of the human mind, consciousness, and perception.
Things beyond our understanding are not necessarily nonsensical.
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
No, that's my point. Anything beyond logic is necessarily nonsensical.
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
God can defy logic. How else could a man rise from the dead after 3 days in a sealed tomb?
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
Chemistry tricks have nothing to do with logic.
Nonsense exists.
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
You're confusing logic with changing or breaking physical laws (or using laws we're unaware of).
Rising from the dead is logically possible. It's not physically practical, nor is it anywhere within the domain of our power at this point or possibly ever, but it doesn't violate logic.
I think the reason you're so adamant that God can defy logic is because you're confusing logic with the universe's contingent physical laws. Logic isn't contingent though.
Nothing that violates logic exists. That's a self-defeating proposition and can't be true, let alone rationally uttered.
Edit: By "that" I mean the proposition that something can exist "outside" of logic.