• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Does one ceases to be human when one dies?

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
and God is Spirit
the sons of God are spirit
the kingdom is not of this world

and you think Jesus is just 'floating around' in the clouds?

Ummmm no.....I don't think he is "floating around" anywhere. I believe that Jesus, like his Father has a dwelling place that is in another realm, unseen to human eyes, and not part of the material world.

God is a spirit and so is the Word, but the man who became Jesus Christ was a mortal human being who dwelt among other humans. He is the one who told us that his Father has a place that he occupies. (Matthew 6:9) The Father is not omnipresent, but has a location...."heaven". We have no idea where that is. We just know that it is alluded to in the Bible and that spirit beings exist there. Some humans are promised life there to rule in a heavenly government over redeemed mankind with Christ, (Revelation 20:6) but the majority of humans will live forever right here where God put us all those thousands of years ago. If he had wanted us in heaven, he would have created us there, like he did the angels.

This earth is not a training ground for heaven.

heaven is within you

That is a common misconception and a mistranslation. Jesus was addressing some Pharisees when he said that "the Kingdom of God is within you".....but he never really said what most people take those words to mean. He castigated the Pharisees at every opportunity and even said that their hearts were "far removed" from the worship of God. He never said that the Kingdom was 'within' those wicked hearts.

The word translated "within" can also be rendered "in the midst of you".....meaning that the appointed King of God's Kingdom was right there "in their midst" but they failed to recognize him. That makes more sense given the setting.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
No not really, but my death from TBI was actual and recorded medically, so the nDE was my
actual experience and recorded somehow whilst brain dead...

I am sorry to hear that you suffered such an injury.....but if you were brain dead, then there was no recordable brain function. An NDE is not a "death experience" but a "near death experience". Can you elaborate on what happened, if its not too painful?

It is known that the brain is flooded with chemicals when it is dying. This is not fully understood, but people's experiences can be interpreted in many ways. Does science fully understand what causes delusions or hallucinations? It's all connected to chemistry apparently....and all very real to the one experiencing them.
 

Eliab ben Benjamin

Active Member
Premium Member
oh ok.......
Well visitor, Here is my life's most important experience, first the events leading up to it, my parents report of occurences while i was away, my NDE, and finally how i feel about it.

housglas.gif

Scene : 24/02/82, Newcastle Australia, 6;00 pm, Leaving my optical instrument repair firm to go home to Raymond Terrace, Raining after 3 months Dry, I was driving along the Industrial Highway and slowing to stop at lights where exit road from BHP crosses highway, memory ends.
Reported by Miles (my ex partner): As we approached the lights they changed to green, as we went into the crossing the car aquaplaned, speed 43 kph, we hit the large industrial power pole just after the intersection, Stuart, who was laying on the mattress in the back of the panel van, was thrown forward into the back of René's head, driving René into the steering wheel.

Medical Info: Stuart's spine was broken T7,
I suffered Fractures Basal area, Frontal Lobe, Right eye socket, Right Zygoma, all depressed, 6 holes in dura, also spokes of steering wheel and indicator entered throat up into roof of mouth, right upper and lower thorax. Miles suffered a small seat belt bruise.

My Mother Reported that: In the afternoon of 27/02/82 they were in the office of Professor Buchalille (Professor of Neurosurgery) where the prof. was reporting my death and that they should be grateful, as i would have been a vegetable had i survived, during this conversation a young frightened Nurse came rushing into the office, blurting out "René is alive, it sat up and spoke!",
the prof. chastised her for interrupting them 3 times before taking her outside and lecturing her about "dead bodies" moving and making noises, the Nurse was emphatic, "René sat up and said "Dont give me any more Drugs!"", at this point my mother took the prof. by one elbow, my father by his and marched them down the corridor to see, they found me in a back corridor where i had apparently been placed so the nurse could remove equipment prior to my transfer to the Morgue, i was in deep coma and breathing, I remained in coma for a further 10 days.

Icons.gif

My NDE: I don't know when in the above events my experience took place. I have no memory of the process of dying or leaving my body. I was moving head first thru a dark maelstrom of what looked like black boiling clouds, feeling that i was being beckoned to the sides which frightened me, ahead was a tiny dot of bright light which steadily grew and brightened as i drew nearer, i became aware that i must be dead and was concerned for Mum & Dad and my Sister, and somewhat upset with myself as i thought "they will soon get over it" like it was in passing just a fleeting thought as i rushed greedily forward towards this light.

I arrived in an explosion of glorious light into a room with insubstantial walls, standing before a man about in his 30's about 6 foot tall, reddish brown shoulder length hair and an incredibly neat, short beard & mo., He wore a simple white robe, light seemed to emanate from Him and i felt He had great age and wisdom. He welcomed me with great Love, tranquillity, Peace (indescribable), no words, I felt " I can sit at your feet forever and be content", which struck me as a strange thing to think/say/feel, i became fascinated by the fabric of His robe, trying to figure out how light could be woven!

He stood beside me and directed me to look to my left, where i was replaying my life's less complementary moments, i re-lived those moments and felt not only what i had done but also the hurt i had caused, some of the things i would have never imagined could have caused pain, i was surprised that some things i may have worried about, like shoplifting a chocolate as a child, were not there whilst casual remarks which caused hurt unknown to me at the time were counted, when i became burdened with guilt i was directed to other events which gave joy to others, although i felt unworthy it seemed the balance was in my favor, i received great Love.

I was led further into the room, which became a hall and there coming towards me was my Grandfather, he looked younger than i remembered and was without his Hare lip or cleft pallet, but undoubtedly my grandfather, we hugged, he spoke to me and welcomed me, i was moved to forgive him for dying when i was 14 and making me break my promise, to become a Doctor and find a cure for his heart condition, until that moment i had not realized i had been angry at him!

Grandad told me that Grandma was coming soon and he was looking forward to her arrival, i enquired why she was coming soon as she had been traveling from her home in Manchester, to NZ, To Miami for continual summer for a number of years! Grandad told me she had Cancer of the Bowel and was coming soon, Grandad seemed to have no grasp of time when i pressed for how soon. (Grandma was diagnosed 3 months later and died in August, I had upset my mother by telling her about it when i regained consciousness.), after Grandad and i had talked a while he took me further into the room which became a hall again, we approached a group of people whom i started to recognize.

The Person who first welcomed me came and placed his hand on my shoulder and turned me towards Him, He said " You must return, you have a task to perform.", i wanted to argue, i wanted to stay, i glanced back at Grandad and was propelled quickly towards the entrance, at the threshold all became blackness, nothing, no awareness.

After: I awoke from my coma slowly, over several days, half dreamed memories of familiar voices and glimpses of faces. The clearest moments were several occasions where i would awake from deep sleep to find a nurse with a syringe and refuse any Drugs, i have no idea why! I had three lots of surgery to repair my face, skull, eye socket.
Left hospital with Pain, double vision, anosmia, and damage to 8th cranial nerve left me with nausea and disturbed balance. I was for two years angry at G-d, for sending me back in such torment, with a task to do with no clues or instructions, only one thing a clear message i have no idea how to pass on, which is :
" It is time to live according to your Beliefs, whatever they may be, to put you House in order, For the End Times are upon us!" this can't be my task, there was no booming voice, or any way i know the message got there. I am also unsure of the identity of the gatekeeper, no nametag, no introduction!

It took me 5 years as a zombie, before i was able to rehabilitate myself, I have gainful employment, formed the Head Injury Society NZ. in 1987, and am paraded as the example of how well it is possible to recover from Acquired Brain Damage. I still dont know my task, still have pain, anosmia, diplopia, etc.

Thats about it, except to say that the memory of the NDE is more real than what i did yesterday.

Shalom....
Peace & Love
-=<< René T>>=-
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Since death means non-existence, if you don't exist you will have a bloody time being anything at all. It is a null state. You've become history. End of story.

You're right, of course, but just think of all the religious people who believe otherwise. An immediate afterlife is taught in almost every religion, including Christendom! Even tho God told Adam after he had sinned, "YOU will return to the ground.....to dust YOU will return." (God didn't say to Adam, 'your body'. He said, "YOU"!) Genesis 3:19

In any way he can, the Devil wants to mislead. And with this issue, he's really succeeded. (He is intent on promoting his lie to Eve, "You positively will not die!" Even having his demons pretend to be people's dead loved ones! Man, it is everywhere!) It's scary, to think about the extent of his influence!
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Thats about it, except to say that the memory of the NDE is more real than what i did yesterday.

Thank you for sharing, the accident sounds horrendous. :( NDE's tend to be remembered vividly by those who experience them. But no one knows for sure why they happen, and if anything that was experienced happened outside of a traumatised brain.

A friend of mine was diagnosed with Lewy Body Dementia and saw all sorts of things and people who were not there. They were so real that, at first he thought there was something wrong with the people who told him they couldn't see what he was seeing.....:oops: It took him quite some time to come to terms with how real his delusions were and that he could no longer trust his eyes. He had to walk up and touch the people he saw, to confirm whether they were actually there or a figment invented by his brain. It was sad, but a powerful demonstration of what the brain can do.

Some people do not have NDE's at all...others have them within the parameters of their own religious beliefs....so who knows? The subconscious is virtually uncharted territory.

Your family are no doubt grateful for the misdiagnosis and all the medical help you received to help you survive.

I have heard that medicinal cannabis is very good for pain and some neurological conditions. It would be good to see it released to the public as medicine.
 

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
Was that "religious study" only within Christendom, or did you extend your study to outside of what is taught by orthodox Christianity?

My study extends to many world religions.

Did your scientific study also go outside of 'orthodoxy'? Or did you weigh what those who support ID have to say?

By "outside of 'orthodoxy,'" do you mean pseudoscience? If so, yes, I am familiar with what it postulates.

Meditation is very important, although a person who practices Eastern Religion may have a different concept of it.

I'm not sure what you mean by this statement. Different from what?

You'll have to forgive me but I do not understand what "duty as determined by causality" means...can you explain please?

Every action one takes has an impact on development of one's Self, be it a negative or positive impact, resulting in a determination of future actions required to further develop the Self in pursuit of liberation.

And "this duty leads to achievement of liberation".....sorry to be a pain, but liberation from what exactly?
Just trying to understand your POV.
128fs318181.gif

Liberation is the release of consciousness from the cycle of rebirth though wisdom and Self-realization.


Welcome. :)
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Neil.degrass tyso said that the energy escapes. I do believe in the law of thermodynamics but I think the me aspect does not exist anymore and that I am something else.
Yes, we continue as another "me". But the really fun thought is that at this moment you are "you", you are also everyone and everything else. Since you are that energy of the universe taking form as you, that same energy is taking form as everyone and everything else. What creates this sense of "me" in this sack of skin is simply a matter of where the awareness in this form typing these words at this moment is focused. That awareness is focused locally inside this sack of skin. But we can shift that awareness universally and see that we aren't separate really, but One in many forms. So in that sense, I, or you, never die. The forms we are just rise and fall in the cycles of life. Enjoy that thought over your breakfast cereal. ;)
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
How do you know that the spirits who are communicating with your partner are the spirits of the dead? Did they tell you that? You believe them? How do you know?

One of the things the Israelites were forbidden to do was to try to communicate with the dead....a common practice among Canaanite pagans whom they evicted from their land. All forms of spiritism were against God's law. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12) This was because demons impersonate the dead and can tell you things that only that person would know. Why would demons do that? To reinforce the first lie that their leader told in Eden..."you surely will not die". God told Adam the exact opposite. Death is the opposite of life, not a mere change in form.

In the Bible, there are no spirits in existence except God and his angels and satan and his demons. Only one in those two groups is a known liar. His minions serve his interests well. Its a clever deception.

They are "energies", for a better word, of her loved ones and loved ones of strangers that that passed. She is told things that only the live person would know; usually it is a huge comfort to the person she relays the information to. Now don't get me wrong, it's not that I believe necessarily it's just after experiencing this with her for 45 years I don't dis-believe (and before you ask she can't tell the future or read your palm, lol).
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
If we truly knew how much influence he had on our lives, we might not be able to continue.

His influence is being revealed as we speak. People are just waking up as to why human governments are so inept when it comes to caring about the ones they are suppose to represent and balancing financial interests against self aggrandizement. "Power corrupts" as we can plainly see. We have never seen the "sea" of humanity so restless. It is indeed "roaring" as Jesus said in Luke 21:25-26 as a prelude to his coming to judge mankind.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
They are "energies", for a better word, of her loved ones and loved ones of strangers that that passed. She is told things that only the live person would know; usually it is a huge comfort to the person she relays the information to. Now don't get me wrong, it's not that I believe necessarily it's just after experiencing this with her for 45 years I don't dis-believe (and before you ask she can't tell the future or read your palm, lol).

These "energies" are spoken about in the Bible, and they are very real, as many can attest to......but never are they identified as "spirits" of the dead. It is the reason why angels always materialized in human form when conveying messages to God's human servants. Demons cannot do this. (Genesis 18) Most people's experience with these spirits is not a friendly encounter. Our natural instinct is almost always an unpleasant feeling of fear.

Jews were forbidden to speak with "spirits" because they cannot be seen or heard by just anyone. A person has to have a 'spirit of mediumship' themselves before the spirits can speak 'through' them .(Biblical example is in 1 Samuel 28:3; 7-19) It is interesting that the Bible lumps all forms of spiritism together as something to be avoided....even fortune telling. :eek: Same source apparently.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
These "energies" are spoken about in the Bible, and they are very real, as many can attest to......but never are they identified as "spirits" of the dead. It is the reason why angels always materialized in human form when conveying messages to God's human servants. Demons cannot do this. (Genesis 18) Most people's experience with these spirits is not a friendly encounter. Our natural instinct is almost always an unpleasant feeling of fear.

Jews were forbidden to speak with "spirits" because they cannot be seen or heard by just anyone. A person has to have a 'spirit of mediumship' themselves before the spirits can speak 'through' them .(Biblical example is in 1 Samuel 28:3; 7-19) It is interesting that the Bible lumps all forms of spiritism together as something to be avoided....even fortune telling. :eek: Same source apparently.

Thanks for the heads up, this explains a lot. She never refers to them as spirits; as a matter of fact she has trouble explaining exactly what they are. I came up with the energy analogy.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
But there lies the issue. Assuming we have an incorporeal soul that exists after death and suppose our collective memories and thoughts exist along with our soul. We cease to be human but we are something else

as far as we know, when one dies, one ceases. It's as simple as that.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Assuming you read the OP entirely, if we have a soul then again do we cease to be human and becoming something else or do we continue being a human just in another form?
We don’t “continue”, period. We go “back to the ground.” That’s why the Bible promises a “resurrection”, which means “stand back to life”! John 5:28-29; Acts of the Apostles 24:15

Almost no one understands this, but the promise of a resurrection contradicts the concept of immortality. One cannot be ‘alive somewhere’, and also “stand back to life.”

Praise Jehovah God for His promise to resurrect humans, through His Son, Jesus! If we die, we will come back to life....on the day He chooses. John 6:44 (God chooses the day, Jesus does the resurrecting.)
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
We don’t “continue”, period. We go “back to the ground.” That’s why the Bible promises a “resurrection”, which means “stand back to life”! John 5:28-29; Acts of the Apostles 24:15

Almost no one understands this, but the promise of a resurrection contradicts the concept of immortality. One cannot be ‘alive somewhere’, and also “stand back to life.”

Praise Jehovah God for His promise to resurrect humans, through His Son, Jesus! If we die, we will come back to life....on the day He chooses. John 6:44 (God chooses the day, Jesus does the resurrecting.)

Ok...You are arguing from YOUR religious perspective....You're not engaging the hypothetical....Therefore we've come to an en passe
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Ok...You are arguing from YOUR religious perspective....You're not engaging the hypothetical....Therefore we've come to an en passe
I'm sorry, sometimes I come across pretty strong....I didn't mean to.

Best wishes to you.

I am curious: what do you believe happens at death? Is there a source you base your beliefs on?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Assuming you read the OP entirely, if we have a soul then again do we cease to be human and becoming something else or do we continue being a human just in another form?

Genesis 2:7 ASV...."And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

Assuming that you have read the above scripture where it says that Adam only "became a living soul" when God starting him breathing....it is clear that Adam was a soul...he wasn't given one.

When we die, we cease to be....human or otherwise. There is nothing that survives death. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10; Psalm 146:4) Immortality of the soul is a Greek teaching, not a Jewish one. Jesus and all the first Christians were Jewish.

Genesis 3:19 ASV.....God said to Adam...... "in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

God didn't say that Adam's body would return to the dust but that the soul that was Adam would do so.

The Bible's hope is in a resurrection.....the same kind as Jesus performed for his friend Lazarus, being raised back to human life and a loving reunion with family and friends. (John 11:11-14) ......this is not any religion's opinion, but what the Bible actually teaches.
 
Last edited:

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
as far as we know, when one dies, one ceases. It's as simple as that.
I agree. However our atomic makeup will always be unaffected as far as I can tell. I tend to think we come about through arranging and rearranging of atoms. I tend to view it as a cyclic process. Life comes, life goes.
 
Top