does owning a pet seem sinful?

[kloth]

I'm not a fan of owning dogs,did you think I was.

not any more i don't.

Some people do. Ever hear of therapy pets?



Because you're a human, and humans are tool-users. Dogs aren't.

i don't think people need pets for therapy. i think they would survive without them. it may be a preference of therapy.
dogs can survive without the assistance of humans. they need nothing from us.

I'm not much of a dog person, perhaps partly because their domestication has went so far I feel kind of bad for some of them. However I've lived with cats my whole life. They've been free to come and go outside as they've liked. Sometimes they were gone for weeks, but they've always came back. That does sound like free choice, doesn't it?

One of our cats is completely convinced she owns us. She's picked up a habit of mewing commands especially at my husband, who then feeds her and amuses her when she likes. When she doesn't, there's no chance whatsoever of getting her to do what you like. She mews at me as well, but I seem to be more the boring mother figure than her personal slave. We also jokingly call her my brother's girlfriend because of the way she automatically assumes all of his attention belongs to her. I don't really even think of cats as pets in that sense. I respect them as the individuals they are and do my best to work with them on their own terms and they've always responded to that with the same. I don't know where I'd be without the emotional support I've gotten from the animals I've lived with over the years.

cats are not so bad i suppose, if they are free to come and go as they please like you say, and they don't live in a man made city or town. they should also be allowed to keep birds and mice they bring home, even if it's kind of disgusting.

But our two speices have evolved side-by-side to be a significant part of each others way of life. We get a companion, a worker, and many times a loyal friend who will fiercely defend you, and the dog gets a companion, someone to take care of him/her, and many times a loyal friend who will fiercely defend them.
And because of a dog's heightened since of smell, there are many tasks, such as search and rescue, that a dog will make the perfect team member with the unique abilities they provide. And of course if you kill a police dog you kill an officer of the law, and many fallen canines are honored as fallen heroes.


Much like people, dog's too need to be groomed. For many dogs it's nothing more than neglectful to not brush them, even if they squirm and try and get away. Better that than letting it get all tangled and matted. Or should we just not make kids take their medicine, since it is often times a "make them." And dogs get medicine as well because of people. A dog who belongs to a responsible owner will have protection against heart and digestive track worms, fleas, ticks, and all the other nasties and the diseases and infections they carry.

no offense, but you're first paragraph seems a bit self centered about your needs for a dog. you keep mentioning about what the dog can do for you. a police dog dying because some adult breaks the law, when they don't need to break the law and kills the dog to get away or for spite? seems unfair to the dog.

some dogs need to be groomed because they were cross bred to have long hair. wild dogs can take care of natures challenges.

My dog is my best friend, he eats what I eat and goes everywhere with me. He loves the boat and goes swimming whenever he wants to. I have a golf cart and he considers it his golf cart. He would go nuts if I left without him on it.

My dog communicates with me really good. He gets along with the cat as well. He is super smart and a mixed breed. If he has to go, he tells me and if I delay he insists and starts barking.

He is well trained and socialised well. He is good with children. He goes to outside restaurants with me and gets served. The waitresses all know him by name.

no offense, but when people say dog is man's best friend. that's only a one sided story from man. how do you know he really wants to eat what you eat? always wants to go with you, where you go?
dogs are obviously not as smart as humans. it seems like they are just making the best of it and/or don't know any better. which seems unfair. dogs run away for a reason, they want freedom. if you take your dog to the park do they not go nuts? or out to the mountains, etc.

 

[Infinitum]

cats are not so bad i suppose, if they are free to come and go as they please like you say, and they don't live in a man made city or town. they should also be allowed to keep birds and mice they bring home, even if it's kind of disgusting.

Cats bring in animals as presents, which I think is really cute. They of course want to take them in on the soft carpet and eat it there, but they'll eat it just as happily outside, which is what they end up doing. I still think fondly of my old cat who brought me "breakfast" every morning. I usually sleep outside in summers and she insisted on sleeping the nights inside with me and then left early in the morning to chase down some prey. Good times.

 

[Reverend Rick]

no offense, but when people say dog is man's best friend. that's only a one sided story from man. how do you know he really wants to eat what you eat? always wants to go with you, where you go?
dogs are obviously not as smart as humans. it seems like they are just making the best of it and/or don't know any better. which seems unfair. dogs run away for a reason, they want freedom. if you take your dog to the park do they not go nuts? or out to the mountains, etc.

How do I know? Well for one thing when we go ouside he runs to the golf cart and sits there waiting for me. If I move too slow he barks at me as if saying, "Hurry up, I want to go for a ride".

The other day when I pulled my boat up to the fuel dock, he jumped off the boat and went to the resturant and laid down by one of the tables. I knew he wanted a tenderloin, so I got him one to go.

I also know when he does not like something, he pushes his plate away as far as possible.

This dog knows every toy he owns by name. They can all be in the other room and I say, "go get your elephant or duck" He knows the difference and brings the correct one.

My dog communicates with me, he is very smart and some times he thinks I am the dense one. LOL.

 

[psychoslice]

I think if your against someone owning a pet, then you have no idea the love between a pet and the owner.

 

[kloth]

Cats bring in animals as presents, which I think is really cute. They of course want to take them in on the soft carpet and eat it there, but they'll eat it just as happily outside, which is what they end up doing. I still think fondly of my old cat who brought me "breakfast" every morning. I usually sleep outside in summers and she insisted on sleeping the nights inside with me and then left early in the morning to chase down some prey. Good times.

it may seem like it's a present, but i am not so sure. may be a trophy or just food for them.

How do I know? Well for one thing when we go ouside he runs to the golf cart and sits there waiting for me. If I move too slow he barks at me as if saying, "Hurry up, I want to go for a ride".

The other day when I pulled my boat up to the fuel dock, he jumped off the boat and went to the resturant and laid down by one of the tables. I knew he wanted a tenderloin, so I got him one to go.

I also know when he does not like something, he pushes his plate away as far as possible.

This dog knows every toy he owns by name. They can all be in the other room and I say, "go get your elephant or duck" He knows the difference and brings the correct one.

My dog communicates with me, he is very smart and some times he thinks I am the dense one. LOL.

i know dogs can become very smart. but i still wonder what kind of freedom they are missing out on, even if not as much as some other dogs.

I think if your against someone owning a pet, then you have no idea the love between a pet and the owner.

i understand what the human wants. i am not so sure about the pet, being that they can't speak for them self. i'm not saying this about you, but some humans can be very self centered and selfish, they will even say another human loves or likes them when that other human insists that they don't and avoids them. the other person doesn't always take the hint or direct approach for a very long time. but a pet can't defend them self so much.

 

[psychoslice]

But how do you know how a pet is thinking, you could be completely wrong.

 

[StarryNightshade]

Yes. It is absolutely sinful to love an animal companion and have a mutually beneficial relationship with it. To give it shelter, food, love and protection from the elements.

Sinful indeed.

In all seriousness, many pets have a better existence than most people. They also don't care who they do their business in front of or the taste of dog food. The only concern I would have is if someone had a HUGE dog in a small apartment, but most apartment dogs are small or medium. As long as they get their exercise. then everything is fine.

 

[kloth]

Yes. It is absolutely sinful to love an animal companion and have a mutually beneficial relationship with it. To give it shelter, food, love and protection from the elements.

Sinful indeed.

In all seriousness, many pets have a better existence than most people. They also don't care who they do their business in front of or the taste of dog food. The only concern I would have is if someone had a HUGE dog in a small apartment, but most apartment dogs are small or medium. As long as they get their exercise. then everything is fine.

i imagine you don't like people speaking for you, and telling you how good you have it because that's what they want for you. you may have actually been around people like that. people do have huge dogs in small apartments, and if you ever come across one, they will say their huge dog likes it, etc.
bottom line dogs don't need humans, and humans certainly don't need dogs.

But how do you know how a pet is thinking, you could be completely wrong.

you ever notice a pet who you can tell is being restricted from their freedom? maybe yours or someone else? how they are forced to live in many situations. you don't like seeing how animals are kept in slaughter houses, right?

 

[StarryNightshade]

i imagine you don't like people speaking for you, and telling you how good you have it because that's what they want for you. you may have actually been around people like that. people do have huge dogs in small apartments, and if you ever come across one, they will say their huge dog likes it, etc.
bottom line dogs don't need humans, and humans certainly don't need dogs.

1.) No, I haven't really been around people (aside from my parents) who have explicitly told me "how good I have it" or that they "know what's best for me". I don't think my parent's count since that's pretty much what parent's do anyway.

2.) People who have huge dogs in tiny (and I mean TINY) apartments, and claim that they like it, tend to come across as not knowing that big dogs need space to run and exercise. People like that, to be blunt, are careless pet owners and border on stupid. Besides, I've yet to meet someone who lives in a studio apartment who owns a Great Dane or Saint Bernard.

3.) We don't need dogs? And vice versa? Okay. Take that up with evolution. Also, take that up with the fact that there is therapy for people (old, sick, paralyzed, etc.) which involves animals. And the fact that a mutually beneficial connection with an animal does well for the person. And I'm pretty sure it can do well for the animal too.

While we're at it, what about animals who are rescued from bad situations? Whether from faulty breeders, abusive homes, etc.? Do they not need a loving companion or family?

4.) Let's say all pets in the world were set free. Where would they go? How would we deal with eventual overpopulation? Hunt them? Seems easier just to keep them as pets.

 

[oldbadger]

i see people who live in the heart of the city. where the dog lives in a small apartment with their master, and the only time the dog gets outside is to use the restroom for when the master wants to take them for a walk.
where they have to take a dump or urinate in front of everyone, other animals. eat dog food made by humans. forced to do tricks, where dog clothing. etc.
does this seem self serving for the masters needs? is there any mention of this sort of thing in the bible? even if the dog (or whatever animal it is) is still loyal, does it seem kind of sinful to do this because humans tend to be obsessed with animals. dogs especially i notice.

Hi Kloth.....
We don't live in a city, but by a beach where our daxie swims and swims and shrieks with delight.
But....
1. You are agnostic, so why are you interested in what the bible might say?
2. Dogs don't mind urinating or dumping in view. They like to smell each other's bottoms because it tells them about each other, their health, their recent food, etc.
3. Dogs don't mind a restricted world, so long as it is 'their' world and 'they' are the alpha body. So long as they have status they are content.
4. Flat dogs live as long as 'prairie dogs', so no indication of unusual stress there. (My wife works for vet).

??

 

[Reverend Rick]

I'm not saying any dog lives a "perfect life", who among us does? My dog has a routien and seems pretty satisfied with it. I am sure things could be more perfect for him but I dought left to his own devices without human interaction he would be more happy.

Have you ever seen an unhappy dog? Many times they houl and wimper. They are anti-social.

Freedom is just one componant to living a happy life. food shelter and love are important too.

 

[kloth]

1.) No, I haven't really been around people (aside from my parents) who have explicitly told me "how good I have it" or that they "know what's best for me". I don't think my parent's count since that's pretty much what parent's do anyway.

2.) People who have huge dogs in tiny (and I mean TINY) apartments, and claim that they like it, tend to come across as not knowing that big dogs need space to run and exercise. People like that, to be blunt, are careless pet owners and border on stupid. Besides, I've yet to meet someone who lives in a studio apartment who owns a Great Dane or Saint Bernard.

3.) We don't need dogs? And vice versa? Okay. Take that up with evolution. Also, take that up with the fact that there is therapy for people (old, sick, paralyzed, etc.) which involves animals. And the fact that a mutually beneficial connection with an animal does well for the person. And I'm pretty sure it can do well for the animal too.

While we're at it, what about animals who are rescued from bad situations? Whether from faulty breeders, abusive homes, etc.? Do they not need a loving companion or family?

4.) Let's say all pets in the world were set free. Where would they go? How would we deal with eventual overpopulation? Hunt them? Seems easier just to keep them as pets.

1. parents in general might have very similar traits to pet owners. being that many pet owners say their pets are family, or like their kids. so i think it kinda counts because often parents and pet owners believe they always know what's best for whom they bring into their home. even if the other side has no real say so in the manner. some pets or people (i don't mean you) are too dumb to think about what they are missing, so they make the best of it and convince them self it's best.

2. you seem to see my point on owners with huge dogs and small places. no offense, but it seems self serving if you can judge them but not yourself on keeping pets. what life form on earth really wants to be kept/owned?

3. force breeding dogs or putting them in an unnatural habitat is not evolution. that's humans will. humans don't need animals for therapy and i don't think that's why they were put on earth, to serve man. some wealthy people believe the same thing about poverty people.

4. i think you are thinking of the beginning states/years of setting animals free. animals are not going to take over humans and eventually they will get back to their natural life they started with many years ago.

Hi Kloth.....
We don't live in a city, but by a beach where our daxie swims and swims and shrieks with delight.
But....
1. You are agnostic, so why are you interested in what the bible might say?
2. Dogs don't mind urinating or dumping in view. They like to smell each other's bottoms because it tells them about each other, their health, their recent food, etc.
3. Dogs don't mind a restricted world, so long as it is 'their' world and 'they' are the alpha body. So long as they have status they are content.
4. Flat dogs live as long as 'prairie dogs', so no indication of unusual stress there. (My wife works for vet).

??

1. because i have an interest in the human thought process. unlike most people, i don't just care about what i consider my kind. besides, there is a section for agnostics on this site. why are you on website that has a section for agnostics? if you are bible believer, does that not give right to post in that section?
2. how do you know they don't mind? because some don't? they don't have a choice. and if some have a choice to be more discrete, maybe they are doing it to annoy us humans as a get back. humans do the same thing in front of people, but i would say most humans like to be discrete about using the restrooms in front of others.
3. again, you are speaking for something that can't speak for itself, and may not know better. is it fair to keep a person in the same town their entire life because they don't know a world exists outside that town? some people say the same thing for housemaids; what you just said.
4. I'm going to use the human comparison again. if humans live just as long as others, does that give right to own humans? even if you think humans are superior to animals. but from i seen most humans claim animals (their pets) are equal to humans.

I'm not saying any dog lives a "perfect life", who among us does? My dog has a routien and seems pretty satisfied with it. I am sure things could be more perfect for him but I dought left to his own devices without human interaction he would be more happy.

Have you ever seen an unhappy dog? Many times they houl and wimper. They are anti-social.

Freedom is just one componant to living a happy life. food shelter and love are important too.

well just because nobody lives a perfect life, i still don't think that gives right for others to own animals or anyone in my opinion.
your dog would probably be worse off if he was left to his own devices now. but if people would stop breeding dogs to own them, and live their life without them then i am sure the human(s) would survive. if dogs breed them self, they would survive accordingly to their nature if they start from birth like they were meant to.
i say meant to, because i don't see in the bible where it says something like "thou shall take upon a pet".
to me it seems like aggressive dogs who bark are anti-social. dogs who howl and whimper from what i seen are lonely, depressed or bored largely due to being chained up, caged up, locked in a room alone or in a house or apartment by a human.

now i don't mean this to you (or anyone on this thread) or to all pet owners, but the way humans are these days. people are more often so full of hate, abuse, sociopaths, sadistic, spiteful, selfish and what not these days. who can you really trust with owning pets?
most people are so leery these days about leaving their little kids with other people, how can they trust their pets with them. lots of real sick people these days. i can't imagine what they do with their own pet(s), especially because the dog can't talk. lots of animal abuse these days.

 

[psychoslice]

Kloth: you ever notice a pet who you can tell is being restricted from their freedom? maybe yours or someone else? how they are forced to live in many situations. you don't like seeing how animals are kept in slaughter houses, right?

Now that's a different story, of course if an animal was treated wrong something should be done, i am talking about animals that are loved by their owners, the same as children being cared for by their parents, if the child is miss treated then something needs to be done. Its either you are talking about miss treatment of animals or loving pets, which is it ?.

 

[kloth]

Kloth: you ever notice a pet who you can tell is being restricted from their freedom? maybe yours or someone else? how they are forced to live in many situations. you don't like seeing how animals are kept in slaughter houses, right?

Now that's a different story, of course if an animal was treated wrong something should be done, i am talking about animals that are loved by their owners, the same as children being cared for by their parents, if the child is miss treated then something needs to be done. Its either you are talking about miss treatment of animals or loving pets, which is it ?.

both. people seem to be obsessed about animals, either in a bad way of a better way that might be perceived as all good, maybe not as bad as abuse, but still not the best.
wouldn't say it's humans nature to be free?
animals i believe are the same. what bird wants to spend a life in cage and only get to fly around the house? if even that.
i think with people is they often give reason for why someone or something else is better else with them. the word love is also used as a reason, but to me the word love gets thrown around too much.
some people kidnap other people and keep them in their house for a long period of time (until they get caught and arrested). then they will always say it wasn't that bad for the other person, and they did it because they loved them. maybe they did love them to a degree, but it might not be what the kidnapped person wanted.

 

[Koldo]

well just because nobody lives a perfect life, i still don't think that gives right for others to own animals or anyone in my opinion.
your dog would probably be worse off if he was left to his own devices now. but if people would stop breeding dogs to own them, and live their life without them then i am sure the human(s) would survive. if dogs breed them self, they would survive accordingly to their nature if they start from birth like they were meant to.

Which doesn't mean they would live happier lives.

 

[psychoslice]

both. people seem to be obsessed about animals, either in a bad way of a better way that might be perceived as all good, maybe not as bad as abuse, but still not the best.
wouldn't say it's humans nature to be free?
animals i believe are the same. what bird wants to spend a life in cage and only get to fly around the house? if even that.
i think with people is they often give reason for why someone or something else is better else with them. the word love is also used as a reason, but to me the word love gets thrown around too much.
some people kidnap other people and keep them in their house for a long period of time (until they get caught and arrested). then they will always say it wasn't that bad for the other person, and they did it because they loved them. maybe they did love them to a degree, but it might not be what the kidnapped person wanted.

You have a very negative attitude about animals and their friends us humans, nothing will ever change your mind.

 

[Me Myself]

Dogs have less complicated psychological needs than humans, comparing them to old people on a retirement home wiout taking this into account is terrible form.

There shouldnt be much debate here really, too many dogs owned and well cared for display clear signs of happiness and do so when interacting with their owners and in severaloments at day. They get sad when the owner is sad and try to comfortm hir, they bark in ways understandable to us to give us ideas about what they want, and they know how to insist.

They communicate well enough, we have evolved together for time enough for this to be the case. We are an awesome team as ling as the human allows the team to be so and knows and leanrs how to nurture that relaitonship.

 

[psychoslice]

both. people seem to be obsessed about animals, either in a bad way of a better way that might be perceived as all good, maybe not as bad as abuse, but still not the best.
wouldn't say it's humans nature to be free?
animals i believe are the same. what bird wants to spend a life in cage and only get to fly around the house? if even that.
i think with people is they often give reason for why someone or something else is better else with them. the word love is also used as a reason, but to me the word love gets thrown around too much.
some people kidnap other people and keep them in their house for a long period of time (until they get caught and arrested). then they will always say it wasn't that bad for the other person, and they did it because they loved them. maybe they did love them to a degree, but it might not be what the kidnapped person wanted.

Well your giving reasons for not owning a pet, where the other gives their reason to have a pet, both can be right, and both can be wrong, it all depends on the situation, you have to see it from both points of view, but can you do that ?.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

i don't think people need pets for therapy. i think they would survive without them. it may be a preference of therapy.
dogs can survive without the assistance of humans. they need nothing from us.

Pet therapy has been shown to work very well. Pet owners are known for, on average, having less stress and living longer. Also try asking some prisoners who have been allowed to take care of a dog about how much it improves their overall mental well being. To many of them their dog, even though the dog is not actually theirs, is their best friend because no matter what horrible things they done in the past, that dog will treat them no differently.
As for dogs, yeah, they can live on their own. But the fact that mine and my parents always come home after their adventures suggest they have no problems living with us. We don't even have to feed them all the time because there are times they find something out there to eat. I also consider my parents dogs to be occasional guests at my house, as they both come over from time to time.

cats are not so bad i suppose, if they are free to come and go as they please like you say, and they don't live in a man made city or town. they should also be allowed to keep birds and mice they bring home, even if it's kind of disgusting.

When my cat brings a dead animal into the house (one of them actually brought in a dead mouse just yesterday), it goes outside as soon as I find it. I am simply not going to let a carcass decay, rot, and stink on my floor. Not to mention it's unsanitary.


no offense, but you're first paragraph seems a bit self centered about your needs for a dog. you keep mentioning about what the dog can do for you. a police dog dying because some adult breaks the law, when they don't need to break the law and kills the dog to get away or for spite? seems unfair to the dog.
[/quote]
I mentioned nothing of myself. I did mention that dogs and humans have evolved side-by-side. They are dogs because their earlier ancestors decided to follow and get closer and closer to humans. They got an easy meal, and eventually we got a worker, a hunter, a fighter, a sentry, and a friend and companion. I also mentioned in all the ways in which humans and dogs form a team that enhances each other. We can't sniff out people to find them under a pile of debris after an earthquake, and a dog cannot move the debris. You really should study the evolutionary history and biology of dogs. They have evolved to be a part of our society, and we have evolved to include them. We can communicate with each other, we can understand them (and to a degree I am certain dogs can understand us), and some dogs love their kids (actually the children of the human owners, but to many dogs, such as a Rottie, those are HER kids) so much they would show actual signs of distress, anxiety, and depression from being separated.

some dogs need to be groomed because they were cross bred to have long hair. wild dogs can take care of natures challenges.

There are no true wild dog's though. There are wolves and hyenas, but they are not canis familiaris.

i imagine you don't like people speaking for you, and telling you how good you have it because that's what they want for you. you may have actually been around people like that. people do have huge dogs in small apartments, and if you ever come across one, they will say their huge dog likes it, etc.
bottom line dogs don't need humans, and humans certainly don't need dogs.

People who live in small apartments should be prevented from owning large dogs.

you ever notice a pet who you can tell is being restricted from their freedom? maybe yours or someone else? how they are forced to live in many situations. you don't like seeing how animals are kept in slaughter houses, right?

Yes, I have. They tell me, I see it in their eyes, and it breaks my heart. As for slaughterhouses, I am strongly opposed to nearly all factory farming practices. The only good system I've seen is one that allows cows to freely walk up to a stall (and yes, a cow will do this on her own because she will leak milk if she is not milked on a regular and consistent schedule) to get cleaned, hooked up to a machine to be milked, and then the cow goes on her way.

 

[kloth]

Which doesn't mean they would live happier lives.

doesn't mean they don't, either. still though, does that give a person a right to not give them that chance?

You have a very negative attitude about animals and their friends us humans, nothing will ever change your mind.

i see it as realistic. if you see it as negative, then maybe you see it for what it really is subconsciously if anything.
you ever come across a person who says you are their friend, when you are not? have you ever known people to do that to others?
maybe you are a passive person that believes humans never do things for their own needs, and will make excuses if it's not so great for others, even if they know better.
i didn't the one person who posted about their cat was too bad.

Dogs have less complicated psychological needs than humans, comparing them to old people on a retirement home wiout taking this into account is terrible form.

There shouldnt be much debate here really, too many dogs owned and well cared for display clear signs of happiness and do so when interacting with their owners and in severaloments at day. They get sad when the owner is sad and try to comfortm hir, they bark in ways understandable to us to give us ideas about what they want, and they know how to insist.

They communicate well enough, we have evolved together for time enough for this to be the case. We are an awesome team as ling as the human allows the team to be so and knows and leanrs how to nurture that relaitonship.

being humans are not dogs, how could humans know what psychological needs dogs really need?
dogs seem to be happy at times. like some people who are happy to get a bowl of rice a day. if that's all they know, does it make it right because that's all they know and do get happy at times about it? how many dogs have missed out on a life they never knew that may have been better for them?
they communicate well enough for YOU. humans have a strong tendency to speak for their pets. how many pet owners can say their pet doesn't like something and will stop doing whatever that is for their pet, even if their owner likes it? instead they say "see? he/she likes it! see?" like when forcing an outfit on a dog.

Well your giving reasons for not owning a pet, where the other gives their reason to have a pet, both can be right, and both can be wrong, it all depends on the situation, you have to see it from both points of view, but can you do that ?.

i think i have done that by answering specific questions ans statements.
the question is can people admit when they are wrong? how often do you see that?
especially when they are emotionally tied into something.