does owning a pet seem sinful?

[kloth]

Pet therapy has been shown to work very well. Pet owners are known for, on average, having less stress and living longer. Also try asking some prisoners who have been allowed to take care of a dog about how much it improves their overall mental well being. To many of them their dog, even though the dog is not actually theirs, is their best friend because no matter what horrible things they done in the past, that dog will treat them no differently.
As for dogs, yeah, they can live on their own. But the fact that mine and my parents always come home after their adventures suggest they have no problems living with us. We don't even have to feed them all the time because there are times they find something out there to eat. I also consider my parents dogs to be occasional guests at my house, as they both come over from time to time.


When my cat brings a dead animal into the house (one of them actually brought in a dead mouse just yesterday), it goes outside as soon as I find it. I am simply not going to let a carcass decay, rot, and stink on my floor. Not to mention it's unsanitary.


no offense, but you're first paragraph seems a bit self centered about your needs for a dog. you keep mentioning about what the dog can do for you. a police dog dying because some adult breaks the law, when they don't need to break the law and kills the dog to get away or for spite? seems unfair to the dog.

I mentioned nothing of myself. I did mention that dogs and humans have evolved side-by-side. They are dogs because their earlier ancestors decided to follow and get closer and closer to humans. They got an easy meal, and eventually we got a worker, a hunter, a fighter, a sentry, and a friend and companion. I also mentioned in all the ways in which humans and dogs form a team that enhances each other. We can't sniff out people to find them under a pile of debris after an earthquake, and a dog cannot move the debris. You really should study the evolutionary history and biology of dogs. They have evolved to be a part of our society, and we have evolved to include them. We can communicate with each other, we can understand them (and to a degree I am certain dogs can understand us), and some dogs love their kids (actually the children of the human owners, but to many dogs, such as a Rottie, those are HER kids) so much they would show actual signs of distress, anxiety, and depression from being separated.

There are no true wild dog's though. There are wolves and hyenas, but they are not canis familiaris.


People who live in small apartments should be prevented from owning large dogs.

Yes, I have. They tell me, I see it in their eyes, and it breaks my heart. As for slaughterhouses, I am strongly opposed to nearly all factory farming practices. The only good system I've seen is one that allows cows to freely walk up to a stall (and yes, a cow will do this on her own because she will leak milk if she is not milked on a regular and consistent schedule) to get cleaned, hooked up to a machine to be milked, and then the cow goes on her way. [/quote]

it doesn't matter how well pet therapy works for any humans. they don't need it. it's not fair to me to make another living creature serve another living creature for their needs or wants.
unless the dog can talk, then you can only assume how it feels. even if it's what you want to think.

when you said WE, i thought you were speaking of your household. either way, i wouldn't go by whatever human decided to write up the history of dogs, because i am fairly certain it will be self serving literature because they like owning dogs, etc.
but i will take my shot at dogs today, whom we know are a product of humans cross breeding them.

there are wild dog packs in some countries. like India, Africa, the middle east and so on.
[youtube]KHMtcCrsam4[/youtube]
Wild Dog Packs of the Indian Forrest (Full Documentary) - YouTube

you ever come across someone who lives in a small apartment with a huge dog(s)?
they will defend it until the end like all pet owners. either that or they will just ignore you if you have something to say about, usually sooner than later.
many people like in Manhattan new york live in studio condo's with large dogs, sometimes more than one huge dog.

i don't believe anyone can really tell what anyone is thinking entirely by the look in their eyes. i know people often say they can, it would be a nice skill, but it can't be done. have you ever had other people assume they knew what you were thinking, when they were very wrong, just because the look in your eyes, face?

 

[Koldo]

there are wild dog packs in some countries. like India, Africa, the middle east and so on.
[youtube]KHMtcCrsam4[/youtube]
Wild Dog Packs of the Indian Forrest (Full Documentary) - YouTube

From the look of the video, i would say that is a dhole.
Domestic dogs belong to a different species, and even a different genus.

This distinction is relevant merely because if you say that dholes are dogs then it is also fair to say the coyote and the gray wolf are dogs too.

 

[kloth]

From the look of the video, i would say that is a dhole.
Domestic dogs belong to a different species, and even a different genus.

This distinction is relevant merely because if you say that dholes are dogs then it is also fair to say the coyote and the gray wolf are dogs too.

they're dogs. just because they were not breed by humans to look a certain way, doesn't mean they aren't dogs. certain pedigree dogs were specially bred to have a certain look after time.

 

[Koldo]

they're dogs. just because they were not breed by humans to look a certain way, doesn't mean they aren't dogs. certain pedigree dogs were specially bred to have a certain look after time.

They? Who?
Gray wolves and coyotes?

 

[kloth]

They? Who?
Gray wolves and coyotes?

the dogs in this video are dogs.

 

[CMike]

Dogs don't care who they relieve themselves in front of. They don't seem to dislike dog food-- it's easier than hunting, anyway. And not bad if it's high quality. I don't really approve of making dogs do tricks or wear stupid clothes, but some dogs don't seem to mind tricks, and the ones that do won't do them. Plus, if decently treated, dogs love their people.

I really don't see how it could be sinful to care for one of God's creatures.

Teaching dogs tricks helps mentally stimulate them and creates a deeper bond between master and dog.

 

[Koldo]

the dogs in this video are dogs.

There are no dogs on that video.
Just read about their biological classification. Seriously.

Our dogs are closer genetically to the gray wolf than to dholes.
If dholes are dogs, then the gray wolf is a dog.

 

[kloth]

There are no dogs on that video.
Just read about their biological classification. Seriously.

Our dogs are closer genetically to the gray wolf than to dholes.
If dholes are dogs, then the gray wolf is a dog.

well, you are entitled to believe they are not dogs, if you want.

 

[Koldo]

well, you are entitled to believe they are not dogs, if you want.

What? :sarcastic
It doesn't seem there is much to debate if you are going to simply ignore biology.

 

[Infinitum]

BBC has recently made a documentary on dogs and their meaning to us. I highly recommend it to anyone being worried about us somehow keeping dogs as pets against their own will. There's plenty of science presented about the relationship between man and dog, down to how brain chemistry works between us. Available at least on Youtube:
[youtube]16IxqJ7_M8Q[/youtube]
Secret Life of Dogs - YouTube

 

[kloth]

What? :sarcastic
It doesn't seem there is much to debate if you are going to simply ignore biology.

I'm not ignoring biology, if i am looking right at a dog with my own eyes, then i am actually paying attention, seeing is believing. i am not going discredit a dog being a dog because it doesn't have a certain look i am used to or care for in a dog. just because those dogs ears are not clipped, etc. doesn't mean they aren't dogs. i have seen many people not recognize a full grown doberman pincher as being a doberman pincher because their ears were not clipped, and they refuse to believe it is a doberman pincher because of that, even if it is one for sure.

BBC has recently made a documentary on dogs and their meaning to us. I highly recommend it to anyone being worried about us somehow keeping dogs as pets against their own will. There's plenty of science presented about the relationship between man and dog, down to how brain chemistry works between us. Available at least on

this is science done by humans that want the chemistry to suit their own needs, because they like animals. to a more extreme example; animal trainers will say the same thing who work in a circus, even after the big cat or elephant snaps and attacks or goes on a rampage from severe built up anguish. when people get animals or other people even to serve their needs, they will always defend and explain it as a good thing no matter what. at least until they are done using them.

 

[Koldo]

I'm not ignoring biology, if i am looking right at a dog with my own eyes, then i am actually paying attention, seeing is believing. i am not going discredit a dog being a dog because it doesn't have a certain look i am used to or care for in a dog. just because those dogs ears are not clipped, etc. doesn't mean they aren't dogs. i have seen many people not recognize a full grown doberman pincher as being a doberman pincher because their ears were not clipped, and they refuse to believe it is a doberman pincher because of that, even if it is one for sure.

That's exactly known as: ignoring biology.
Just because it looks like a dog it doesn't mean it is a dog.
If you were not ignoring biology, you would take into consideration other factors before saying it is a dog.

 

[oldbadger]

i see people who live in the heart of the city. where the dog lives in a small apartment with their master, and the only time the dog gets outside is to use the restroom for when the master wants to take them for a walk.
where they have to take a dump or urinate in front of everyone, other animals. eat dog food made by humans. forced to do tricks, where dog clothing. etc.
does this seem self serving for the masters needs? is there any mention of this sort of thing in the bible? even if the dog (or whatever animal it is) is still loyal, does it seem kind of sinful to do this because humans tend to be obsessed with animals. dogs especially i notice.

Have you ever kept a dog? Have you ever studied 'Dog'?

OK.... I read your OP. Now....... it seems that you have decided that dogs (in the cities) have a rubbish life, don't get out enough, have to defecate in front of people (humiliated?), have to eat processed food and can't kill for themselves, their existence as pets is not endorsed by the bible, and they are generally unhappy (?) etc etc.....

Now..... I got all that................. so.......... what do you want to do?
Please...... just tell the dog-owning city dwellers of the world what you want them to do..... Today. Now. Not next year or next decade. What to do, now...?

 

[ladybug77]

Why would it be sinful to own a pet? Its circumstantial...Maybe a non-domesticated animal...yes. or if you treated an animal with neglect...yes. but 'own' in itself is the wrong word IMO...we dont 'own' them. We simply provide food, shelter, and company. If the animal seems to enjoy this, and comes and goes on free will. (For ex. I let my cat outside, aswell as inside...he always come inside willing, and vise-versa) then i dont see the problem. If anything...a good deed. Especially if you took in the animal from an otherwise harmful and unhealthy situation. (Like the pound)

 

[Infinitum]

this is science done by humans that want the chemistry to suit their own needs, because they like animals. to a more extreme example; animal trainers will say the same thing who work in a circus, even after the big cat or elephant snaps and attacks or goes on a rampage from severe built up anguish. when people get animals or other people even to serve their needs, they will always defend and explain it as a good thing no matter what. at least until they are done using them.

Your response screams Ad hominem so loud I don't really know what to say. Science isn't done to please someone. It's done to find out the truth about something. The documentary is based on peer reviewed studies. You do know how peer review works, right? It means that before the studies have became accepted they have been tested. This isn't some kind of process where you can just claim whatever you like -- unlike certain other forums.

Your reference to elephants and big cats have absolutely nothing to do with the situation most dogs live in. There's plenty of mistreatment out there, sure, but these are a result of not tending to the animal's natural needs. A big cat naturally lives in a habitat as large as tens of miles. A dog on the other is genetically entirely different. The first wolves very likely chose to live in a symbiosis with us humans because to a difference from the wild, they get regular food, safety and shelter. This is something entirely different from keeping an elephant in a cage for the rest of it's life. Do you at least understand the nuances we're talking about here?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

it doesn't matter how well pet therapy works for any humans. they don't need it. it's not fair to me to make another living creature serve another living creature for their needs or wants.
unless the dog can talk, then you can only assume how it feels. even if it's what you want to think.

I never mentioned anything about serving.


when you said WE, i thought you were speaking of your household. either way, i wouldn't go by whatever human decided to write up the history of dogs, because i am fairly certain it will be self serving literature because they like owning dogs, etc.
but i will take my shot at dogs today, whom we know are a product of humans cross breeding them.

there are wild dog packs in some countries. like India, Africa, the middle east and so on.
[youtube]KHMtcCrsam4[/youtube]
Wild Dog Packs of the Indian Forrest (Full Documentary) - YouTube

Dogs are the species known as canis familiarus. Those are not dogs, but are cuon alpinus.

you ever come across someone who lives in a small apartment with a huge dog(s)?
they will defend it until the end like all pet owners. either that or they will just ignore you if you have something to say about, usually sooner than later.
many people like in Manhattan new york live in studio condo's with large dogs, sometimes more than one huge dog.

And that is abusive towards the animal. Large dogs need large areas to run around in (and even some small and medium sized dogs need large areas to run around in).

i don't believe anyone can really tell what anyone is thinking entirely by the look in their eyes. i know people often say they can, it would be a nice skill, but it can't be done. have you ever had other people assume they knew what you were thinking, when they were very wrong, just because the look in your eyes, face?

Actually you can tell what someone is thinking, at least emotionally, by looking at their face. People who are very good at it can even detect the very subtle muscle movements in the face that occur before someone even has a chance to lie about something.

BBC has recently made a documentary on dogs and their meaning to us. I highly recommend it to anyone being worried about us somehow keeping dogs as pets against their own will. There's plenty of science presented about the relationship between man and dog, down to how brain chemistry works between us. Available at least on Youtube:
[youtube]16IxqJ7_M8Q[/youtube]
Secret Life of Dogs - YouTube

NOVA also had a very good documentary about dogs, and the relationship between dogs and humans.
[youtube]mTTuiE1_Oe8[/youtube]
Nova Science Now : How Smart Are Dogs? - YouTube

 

[oldbadger]

1. because i have an interest in the human thought process. unlike most people, i don't just care about what i consider my kind. besides, there is a section for agnostics on this site. why are you on website that has a section for agnostics? if you are bible believer, does that not give right to post in that section?

I simply wondered why an agnostic would point out that dog-ownership is not covered in a book that would not be followed closely by .... an agnostic.

2. how do you know they don't mind? because some don't? they don't have a choice. and if some have a choice to be more discrete, maybe they are doing it to annoy us humans as a get back. humans do the same thing in front of people, but i would say most humans like to be discrete about using the restrooms in front of others.

Let's say that dogs are humiliated.... every time they are forced to defecate in public....OK?

3. again, you are speaking for something that can't speak for itself, and may not know better. is it fair to keep a person in the same town their entire life because they don't know a world exists outside that town? some people say the same thing for housemaids; what you just said.

Let's say that dogs do not want to live with humans, in flats in cities.....OK?

4. I'm going to use the human comparison again. if humans live just as long as others, does that give right to own humans? even if you think humans are superior to animals. but from i seen most humans claim animals (their pets) are equal to humans.

Let's say that humans in cities should cease having dogs ...... today!.... OK?

Right..... so you've nearly won your debate. All you have to do now is explain what should happen about this, tomorrow. Off you go. I'm waiting in keen anticipation of your suggestions about how the world's cities will end dog ownership, tomorrow.

Can't wait to read your suggestions..... :yes:

 

[oldbadger]

kloth.......

Your plan to end dog ownership in cities had better not be sinful...... in any way!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

kloth.......

Your plan to end dog ownership in cities had better not be sinful...... in any way!

The only thing ending dog ownership would accomplish is countless dogs feeling abandoned, becoming depressed, and being killed in a shelter or dying alone in the streets. Or you let people keep their dogs, but not allow people to have anymore, which would still result in the needless deaths of many dogs.
Now I ask, what is really sinful? Keeping a dog well feed, groomed, and kept healthy and in a suitably sized environment, or let them fend for themselves even though they have come to be dependent upon humans?

 

[oldbadger]

Hk

The only thing ending dog ownership would accomplish is countless dogs feeling abandoned, becoming depressed, and being killed in a shelter or dying alone in the streets. Or you let people keep their dogs, but not allow people to have anymore, which would still result in the needless deaths of many dogs.
Now I ask, what is really sinful? Keeping a dog well feed, groomed, and kept healthy and in a suitably sized environment, or let them fend for themselves even though they have come to be dependent upon humans?

hi...!
i still look forward to kloths reply.

i cant use this phone well, so will come back later