Does the Bahai Faith hope and intend to be a World Theocracy?

[Windwalker]

Much appreciate your very good comments. The principle around which all the Baha'i Teachings revolve is the oneness of humanity. So that includes every human being on the planet.

The word "oneness" gets tossed around a lot and it means different things to different people, and looks differently to different people. For instance in the Bible it speaks of "One Lord, one faith, one baptism", but there are many who feel this means all need to conform to that single belief and practice. Oneness to them, unity to them means common belief. A "one world order" would be one in which everyone agreed. That's not Oneness in the way I understand it, nor the way Krishnamurti would.

I was an atheist when I came across the Baha'is and I was friends with them for years and they accepted me even though I was against their religion as I couldn't accept the idea of a God. I was an avowed atheist.

Why would you say not accepting the idea of God made you against them?

As an atheist I didn't want to participate in things like prayer meetings or teaching their religion as I didn't believe in God and I didn't want to help them build the Kingdom of God as I rejected the idea of a God.

Why would that make you against them? Did you seek to destroy them?

So as an atheist I had my own limitations on what level I wanted to mix with Baha'is but what I did understand clearly is that they loved me just for being human regardless of the fact that I wasn't interested in joining them as I was always suspicious of religious people's motives.

Why do you consider this a limitation of atheism that it doesn't have any interest in religious goals? You appear to be creating that division right here of "inside and outside". You have the Baha'i' over here and atheism over there. "Us and them". Right here is division.

After many years when I saw their motives weren't just to grab me and convert me and their love was genuine I began wanting to find out how people who believed in a mythical God could be so loving and sincere and it gnawed at me daily their love and kindness.

I think people can be loving regardless of their beliefs. Rather in most cases in spite of their beliefs! That says more about the person, than the belief system.

Not having a motive was a very hard thing for me to believe existed in today's world. So I read their books, argued and challenged them and even cried that I felt here were such beautiful people yet they believed in such fantasies as a God. What troubled me most was their unconditional acceptance of me. There just had to be an ulterior motive and I was determined to find it.

This sort of thing with religious groups is quite common, and the "testimonies" of those who have been converted through this approach sound identical to yours. I've found there is in fact a motive. You said it yourself a few sentences ago, "I didn't want to help them build the Kingdom of God." There it is right there, "Help them build the Kingdom of God". The motive is to "build the Kingdom of God". To bring people in. To make converts to the religion. The eye is to make all the world Baha'i'.

So I was treated just as one of them without discrimination. I found out later that it was Baha'u'llah Who taught them to just love unconditionally for the sake of God nothing else.

There are very few who love unconditionally, and it is not something that you can teach someone. Jesus taught this as well, but in my experience I have seen many who "act" as if they are loving unconditionally, while being polluted somewhere in there with their own, or their groups agendas. To love for the sake of Love itself, is to have nothing in mind but God alone. It is the Single Thought. And if what follows is handing someone a religious tract, or an invitation to your church or temple or mosque, then I find that a corruption of this, and a considerable falling short of the mark. It is still sin. It is not pure Love for its own sake.

They are not interested in power or dominance quite the opposite so I eventually realised such pure love could only have come from this God and then I fell in love with the idea of accepting everyone, welcoming everyone, condemning no one just being part of one human family.

I think the idea of it appeals to us because it's what we as humans crave, which is a full release from our isolation from our own self and others. The realization of this is in fact what "salvation" is. It's what true Enlightenment is. That others try to emulate this is good as it gets the mind to think beyond just the self, but since it is not truly Pure, it is invariably tainted with self interests. And our desire for this in ourselves allows us to blind ourselves to that in others who hold that as a standard to follow, assuming they are truly Realized individuals because they "act" according to that.

It reminds me of a friend of mine back in the day when I first became part of a religious community a few decades ago. He told us in the group how he found a motorist stranded on the road and how the "Lord" put it on his heart to go back and help him. So he told us how when he returned he told the man the reason he came to help him is because Jesus taught him the value of helping others and shared with him the story of the Good Samaritan from the Bible. Even then, in my youth wanting to believe in order to find God, it felt "off" to me. Even then I knew this was not genuine love, as it did not come from the wellspring of his own heart. It was "imposed" upon him. It was not sincere love. "I love you because Jesus tells me I should", is not loving truly.

Now there is beauty and good in everyone I meet and I see God in all of them here whether they agree with me or not or say nice things or not. Everyone here I learn from.

If you are open to other perspectives to help grown and change your own for the good, then I'd say you are doing well. Don't be surprised if you find yourself having less in common with the group that identifies itself by a set of beliefs, such as believing in the Prophet, and the like.

I don't see Baha'is as better, matter of fact we're the new kid on the block so we have a lot to learn from everyone else about so many things.

Again here, I hear this distinction of "us and them", that division, that "violence" as Krishnamurti points out. "We're the new kind on the block" creates this us and them division. You see yourselves as separate. That you are open to learn is admirable, but knowing human nature, and what this goal of finding your own identities entails, those distinctions and divisions will continue to grow, very possibly to the point of animosity towards others who you perceive as not accepting you. Human development applies to groups as well. You are in the process of differentiation, defining who you are as a people.

Coming back to the group I was part of that I mentioned, one other thing that struck me then is that this "unity" that I experienced in their group was not a true Unity, in the sense of Divine Love. It was a combination of shared beliefs and an "us versus them" mentality. We rallied around the flagpole of our distinct beliefs, such as you might see rallying around the common belief and accept of Baha'u'llah as the Prophet of God. You become "united" by this and share a love in community. But I do not see this a truly Divine Love, yet. It is not truly liberated from beliefs.

But we share that world vision that we hope one day people will accept their diversity and see it as beauty and not as a cause of conflict and learn to live in peace.

I see this happening as our consciousness is raised beyond distinctions created by group identifications, or beliefs. That would include those who hold them. Even if the words sound right, is the actual motive Pure? Is it truly love for Love's sake, or because our religion tells us to love?

 

[oldbadger]

Old badger I gave you a like because I love the spirit of your questioning. (More like interrogation ha! Ha!). I love you digging deep because you might strike gold or diamonds one day like we all have.

Thankyou for that. The likey thingy... Of course you believe in your religion as 'gold'. Most followers in any religion believe that theirs is the only way as well.

Let's go back to Baha'u'llah in His Most Holy Book, the Law Book of the Baha'i Faith.

Note He refers to the Baha'i system as a - 'unique' System the like of which mortal eyes have never witnessed.

Oxford definition / unique - being the only one of its kind;

I've already said that...... To a Bahai, there hasn't been any other theocracy since God's laws were spelled out in Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy. To a Bahai the governments within Islam, Christianity and any others are just man-made stuff, and only the promised World Order, World Commonwealth of Bahauallah is the one ORDAINED BY GOD. DIVINE! Now we, who communicate in English, call a Government, Order, Administration or Legislature which is Divine, Ordained by God a theocracy.
This word is probably as dirt to a Bahai, a nasty word, a word used by previous administrations which are out of date, possibly corrupt, not nice, bad, nasty, even unGodly possibly?
But that is prejudice about a word, and one of the first requirements is that Bahais eliminate prejudice!
So sometimes we have to grasp to things which we find unnattractive.
Of course, I'm English, and the English have a history of grasping insults which are thrown at them and taking ownership of them with pride, which is why we had regiments that we fondly called 'the old contemtibles' and so forth. Even our Jewish English have a history of doing this and when Jewish Tottenham Football supporters were thrown disgusting insults by other sides they grasped the insult and made it their banner. 'We are the --d army!' they called out with pride. Oh yes!

The concept of a religion controlling the World with an infallible government which they believe is divine is very probably terrifying to many outsiders, but if it's you, then one day you will need to grasp it. Grasp the thistle and it will hurt you, but much less than if you pat at it.

Trying to compare a 'one of its kind' System to any other system is illogical.

To a Bahai there can't be a comparison. Since all the others were fakes then your 'hoped for' theocracy is unique because it's the only ordained by God. But you have to take ownership of that title if you're speaking in English.
Why don't you all look up the translation for theocracy in some (any) foreign language and use that?

“The world’s equilibrium hath been upset through the vibrating influence of this most great, this new World Order. Mankind’s ordered life hath been revolutionized through the agency of this unique, this wondrous System—the like of which mortal eyes have never witnessed.”

Excerpt From: Bahá’u’lláh. “The Kitab-i-Aqdas.” Bahá’í

See? Bahauallah knew what he wanted, but didn't know English, so never got bothered by that horrible word...... theocracy!

 

[loverofhumanity]

But there is no official document by Christ, Moses, Muhammad which is authoritative, signed and sealed by the Prophet that delineates any administration, how it is to operate and what power God has endowed it with if any.

All the man made theocracies were based upon vague passages not clear legally binding documents and instructions. That's why all the Faiths up to date have split into sects.

But with the Baha'i Faith, Baha'u'llah Himself invests the Universal House of Justice with infallibility within the Baha'i Faith signed and sealed in His Own Handwriting with His Seal and signature. And then He appointed Abdul-Bahá'í as His Interpreter in His Will.

You are confusing the role of Baha'i Administration with world government which it is not. Currently the Baha'i Administration governs about 8 million Baha'is.if that number increased to 5 billion then the Baha'i Administration would govern 5 billion Baha'is but not one non Baha'i.

So when you talk about 'world' you are incorrect. It would be more correct to say that the Baha'i Administration governs only the 'Baha'i world' but not the entire world.

In the event that everyone on earth chose voluntarily to become a Baha'i then it's still the 'Baha'i world which is being governed not the non Baha'i world being taken over.

Can't you divide the two? You seem to be trying to imply that somehow the non Baha'i world is to be governed by Baha'is. That is impossible and will never happen as only Baha'is are bound by Bahá'í laws no one else.

 

[loverofhumanity]

When I was an atheist it was 'us and them' but not as a Baha'i.

The oneness of humanity means its fellow human beings being massacred say for instance in Syria not Syrians. If it was Americans being gassed does anyone think they wouldn't have gone in already and stopped it? Or Russians or Chinese?

And why aren't the people of the world uniting against this cruelty against fellow human beings? Because we are us and they are them.
It's urgent to try and educate people not to become Bahais but to have a world vision strong enough to try and effect a change.

At least we're trying to do something. We are only about 8 million but where are the other 7 billion people of this planet? So it's not their race or religion so it doesn't matter?

That's what Baha'is seek to change. It's not entirely up to the governments. People do have power but they need to have a world vision not just an internal view if life.

When we call for the unity of mankind we are appealing to the humanity in humanity to come together as one and see all as one family and not allow the suffering of millions be allowed to continue just because they are not our race, religion or nationality.

So America, Russia and China haven't got the financial or even military might to force a political solution? Why aren't they interested? It's fellow human beings. And whys the world just look on when it can be calling on governments to act?

It's because we have worldwide racism and nationalism and prejudices so people only care about what matters to them and if others suffer it's not really their business.

Baha'is try every day to try and get the world and its people's on board to see humanity as one entity that the harm of one is harm to all.


One can find 100,000's of voices condemning Muhammad and Islam daily on the internet but can we find even 10 voices calling for an end to the massacres in Syria? Where are people working for peace or has humanity just given up?

When will we learn to use our voice to promote something positive and try to help these people by calling for peace?

We're trying to build tolerant peaceful communities that accept all humanity. We try and encourage the UN to create a better world but unless we can overcome our prejudices of religion, race and nationality we are just headed for another war thus the emphasis on the oneness of humanity that we accept all human beings are our family in spirit and deed not just blindly profess it.

At least we're trying with what limited resources we have to promote tolerance and a better peaceful society and that's way better than doing nothing. We are not perfect but we're trying to alleviate the suffering of humanity and with only 8 million that is a very difficult task.

 

[George-ananda]

Yes! Yes! Absolutely, yes!

Back in the earliest 70's I often listened to visitors at firesides explaining what they personally believed. And very often the reply to them would be, 'That's what we believe'!

I described my 'God is all' belief very early on and was told that this fitted with Bahai. It was only when I gave a talk on this subject at Rutland Gate some years later that the audience became somewhat reserved, chewing finger nails and such..... Oh dear, I was merrily banging on energetically about Deism....... ...... there I've gonre and embarrassed myself again.

I also heard that whole communities in'third-world' countries might declare 'overnight' and 'en masse' because they liked a Bahai vistor. A famous doctor (whose name I shall keep to myself ) who worked in forestry once told me a story exactly like that, from Africa, as I remember.

I think the Baha'i Faith could make their full teachings incredibly clearer but they know it will sound too radical and not palatable to general modern western sensitivities. The teachings are there but the less palatable ones are de-emphasized and left in lengthy flowery written paragraphs that leave the reader to get from it what the Baha'i reader thinks should be there.

 

[oldbadger]

I think the Baha'i Faith could make their full teachings incredibly clearer but they know it will sound too radical and not palatable to general modern western sensitivities. The teachings are there but the less palatable ones are de-emphasized and left in lengthy flowery written paragraphs that leave the reader to get from it what the Baha'i reader thinks should be there.

Exactly what I think.
In my opinion that is not a sensible discretion, either.
When Baha'is of many years' experience have missed key fundamental points this shows in sharp definition.
As with some other beautiful ideals, such as Marx's, the real life end result would most likely be a dreadful nightmare, not because of the initiator but because of the ruthlessness of humans.
We see this corruption more and more now due to the digital age. Only this morning we heard that yet another bank has been cheating small businesses in difficulties by devious means. Every profession in the UK has been caught at one scam or another.
It's better to view humanity as just another part of ruthless yet beautiful nature.

 

[George-ananda]

As with some other beautiful ideals, such as Marx's, the real life end result would most likely be a dreadful nightmare, not because of the initiator but because of the ruthlessness of humans.

But here the thinking is that all people will be as one, under the banner of the Baha'i Faith, and what ruthlessness that may pop up will be handled through Baha'i administration.

 

[loverofhumanity]

But here the thinking is that all people will be as one, under the banner of the Baha'i Faith, and what ruthlessness that may pop up will be handled through Baha'i administration.

That is untrue. The Baha'i World is governed by Baha'is not the outside world. Only Baha'is are bound by the laws of Baha'u'llah no one else.

 

[arthra]

At least we're trying to do something. We are only about 8 million but where are the other 7 billion people of this planet? So it's not their race or religion so it doesn't matter?

That's what Baha'is seek to change. It's not entirely up to the governments. People do have power but they need to have a world vision not just an internal view if life.

Very well put! Increasingly since the end of the nineteenth century I believe there has been an enhanced "world vision" and it's becoming increasingly widespread over time. Consider the following:

http://www.cfr.org/international-organizations-and-alliances/world-trade-organization-wto/p9386

http://www.iccwbo.org/about-icc/org...vices/icc-international-court-of-arbitration/

http://www.haguejusticeportal.net/index.php?id=305

http://www.un.org/

http://webfoundation.org/about/vision/history-of-the-web/

 

[oldbadger]

But here the thinking is that all people will be as one, under the banner of the Baha'i Faith, and what ruthlessness that may pop up will be handled through Baha'i administration.

Yep..... for the World Order as described by Bahauallah the majority of the World would be bahai, under the banner of the Faith, just as you describe, (methinks).

I've been scanning Bahauallah's writings and if you're looking for them there are many references to the consolidated Bahai World Order, but the descriptions are so colourful and/or 'veiled' that they are easily missed. So Far I have only looked through Tablets and Gleanings yet they are there. I'll start to post them up when I've worked through all the writings that I've got, which will take a few days yet.

On the side, I was most pleased to be able to copy the Seven Valleys. I gave my wife's copy to a bahai many years ago.... it was an early edition of the English Translation and a Bahai deserved to have it, but I have missed the contents somewhat. I rate it alongside of Rubaiyat, The Prophet, Jonathan Livingstone...........

 

[oldbadger]

............................................... At least we're trying to do something. We are only about 8 million but where are the other 7 billion people of this planet? So it's not their race or religion so it doesn't matter? ................................

I did read your whole post. You write as if you think that you are the only group in the World which cares about anything. Now.... that is an insult towards the billions of other people who do care and who do do something. Jesus got it right as he commented upon a poor woman who was giving all that she had....... a tiny offering hardly noticed by anybody but Jesus. That woman was saving her World.

Every week I see JWs walking our streets and evangelising for a better World and to save souls. Mormons used to walk our streets and probably will again. I see hundreds of people working for nothing in charity shops all over my neighbourhood. Thousands write in to our Government Offices all the time to draw attention to this problem or that. Thousands of people run past my home on differing fund raising events for different needs. My friends work in soup kitchens at weekends and during Christian feasts. People all over are doing what they think is right and good as far as they can manage.

So, rather than ask why the World is not joining in with you, why not ask yourselves why you are not joining in with the World?

 

[loverofhumanity]

I did read your whole post. You write as if you think that you are the only group in the World which cares about anything. Now.... that is an insult towards the billions of other people who do care and who do do something. Jesus got it right as he commented upon a poor woman who was giving all that she had....... a tiny offering hardly noticed by anybody but Jesus. That woman was saving her World.

Every week I see JWs walking our streets and evangelising for a better World and to save souls. Mormons used to walk our streets and probably will again. I see hundreds of people working for nothing in charity shops all over my neighbourhood. Thousands write in to our Government Offices all the time to draw attention to this problem or that. Thousands of people run past my home on differing fund raising events for different needs. My friends work in soup kitchens at weekends and during Christian feasts. People all over are doing what they think is right and good as far as they can manage.

So, rather than ask why the World is not joining in with you, why not ask yourselves why you are not joining in with the World?

We've had two major world wars already and everything humanity has tried has utterly failed to bring peace to our world.

The one thing the world has ignored is the program put forward by Baha'u'llah and it's no coincidence that humanity can't seem to solve its problems while it ignores Baha'u'llah's solutions.

"Humanity, whether viewed in the light of man’s individual conduct or in the existing relationships between organized communities and nations, has, alas, strayed too far and suffered too great a decline to be redeemed through the unaided efforts of the best among its recognized rulers and statesmen—however disinterested their motives, however concerted their action, however unsparing in their zeal and devotion to its cause.

No scheme which the calculations of the highest statesmanship may yet devise; no doctrine which the most distinguished exponents of economic theory may hope to advance; no principle which the most ardent of moralists may strive to inculcate, can provide, in the last resort, adequate foundations upon which the future of a distracted world can be built. No appeal for mutual tolerance which the worldly-wise might raise, however compelling and insistent, can calm its passions or help restore its vigor.

Nor would any general scheme of mere organized international cooperation, in whatever sphere of human activity, however ingenious in conception, or extensive in scope, succeed in removing the root cause of the evil that has so rudely upset the equilibrium of present-day society. Not even, I venture to assert, would the very act of devising the machinery required for the political and economic unification of the world—a principle that has been increasingly advocated in recent times—provide in itself the antidote against the poison that is steadily undermining the vigor of organized peoples and nations.

What else, might we not confidently affirm, but the unreserved acceptance of the Divine Program enunciated, with such simplicity and force as far back as sixty years ago, by Bahá’u’lláh, embodying in its essentials God’s divinely appointed scheme for the unification of mankind in this age, coupled with an indomitable conviction in the unfailing efficacy of each and all of its provisions, is eventually capable of withstanding the forces of internal disintegration which, if unchecked, must needs continue to eat into the vitals of a despairing society.

It is towards this goal—the goal of a new World Order, Divine in origin, all-embracing in scope, equitable in principle, challenging in its features—that a harassed humanity must strive.
(Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 33)

 

[loverofhumanity]

But old badger you're missing a vital point. The World Order of Baha'u'llah is a System of governance but in conjunction with building this system we must have a different type of people from today's world or what improvement will there be?

Baha'u'llah has stated that

"Is not the object of every Revelation to effect a transformation in the whole character of mankind, a transformation that shall manifest itself, both outwardly and inwardly, that shall affect both its inner life and external conditions? For if the character of mankind be not changed, the futility of God’s universal Manifestations would be apparent." (Book of Certitude)

So we not only need a new system that's just and fair but a 'new race of men' to run it.

"A race of men,” is His written promise, “incomparable in character, shall be raised up which, with the feet of detachment, will tread under all who are in heaven and on earth, and will cast the sleeve of holiness over all that hath been created from water and clay." (ADJ)

"the supreme and distinguishing function of His Revelation, which is none other than the calling into being of a new race of men, "(Advent of Divine Justice)

So unless there are a new race of people with virtuous and upright character the world cannot change.

This is why we have a universal spiritual education program which is open to all humanity. One does not need to be a Bahai to participate and it is free. A better world starts with each of us.

 

[oldbadger]

We've had two major world wars already and everything humanity has tried has utterly failed to bring peace to our world.

The one thing the world has ignored is the program put forward by Baha'u'llah and it's no coincidence that humanity can't seem to solve its problems while it ignores Baha'u'llah's solutions.

"Humanity, whether viewed in the light of man’s individual conduct or in the existing relationships between organized communities and nations, has, alas, strayed too far and suffered too great a decline to be redeemed through the unaided efforts of the best among its recognized rulers and statesmen—however disinterested their motives, however concerted their action, however unsparing in their zeal and devotion to its cause.

No scheme which the calculations of the highest statesmanship may yet devise; no doctrine which the most distinguished exponents of economic theory may hope to advance; no principle which the most ardent of moralists may strive to inculcate, can provide, in the last resort, adequate foundations upon which the future of a distracted world can be built. No appeal for mutual tolerance which the worldly-wise might raise, however compelling and insistent, can calm its passions or help restore its vigor.

Nor would any general scheme of mere organized international cooperation, in whatever sphere of human activity, however ingenious in conception, or extensive in scope, succeed in removing the root cause of the evil that has so rudely upset the equilibrium of present-day society. Not even, I venture to assert, would the very act of devising the machinery required for the political and economic unification of the world—a principle that has been increasingly advocated in recent times—provide in itself the antidote against the poison that is steadily undermining the vigor of organized peoples and nations.

What else, might we not confidently affirm, but the unreserved acceptance of the Divine Program enunciated, with such simplicity and force as far back as sixty years ago, by Bahá’u’lláh, embodying in its essentials God’s divinely appointed scheme for the unification of mankind in this age, coupled with an indomitable conviction in the unfailing efficacy of each and all of its provisions, is eventually capable of withstanding the forces of internal disintegration which, if unchecked, must needs continue to eat into the vitals of a despairing society.

It is towards this goal—the goal of a new World Order, Divine in origin, all-embracing in scope, equitable in principle, challenging in its features—that a harassed humanity must strive.
(Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 33)

A Divine New World Order, as enunciated by Bahausllah.... Look at that!
Well, the first thing that you could do about it, is accept it, because up till now you have been denying it's embryonic existence.... That is a World theocracy, right there, right under your nose.

 

[George-ananda]

I've been scanning Bahauallah's writings and if you're looking for them there are many references to the consolidated Bahai World Order, but the descriptions are so colourful and/or 'veiled' that they are easily missed.

That has been my point since the get-go here! The later leaders were just representing and expounding on Baha'u'llah's writings. And Shoghi Effendi is particularly veiled and flowery in his writing such that few Baha'is understand some essential things.

 

[Sen McGlinn]

A Divine New World Order, as enunciated by Bahausllah.... Look at that!
Well, the first thing that you could do about it, is accept it, because up till now you have been denying it's embryonic existence.... That is a World theocracy, right there, right under your nose.

If you take your spectacles off, that world theocracy will disappear from the end of your nose. The New World Order as enunciated by Baha'u'llah is a system with a world legislature, judiciary and executive, the first elected by the peoples of the world, the second by parliaments of the world, a world order that unites nations and creeds. It is a secular order, which must inherently include the separation of church and state (otherwise it couldn't unite the creeds). If you stretch the word "theocracy" to include a secular democratic order with the separation of church and state, then the US and UK and Canada are your kind of theocracy.

The unity of the human race, as envisaged by Bahá'u'lláh, implies the establishment of a world commonwealth in which all nations, races, creeds and classes are closely and permanently united, and in which the autonomy of its state members and the personal freedom and initiative of the individuals that compose them are definitely and completely safeguarded. This commonwealth must, as far as we can visualize it, consist of a world legislature, whose members will, as the trustees of the whole of mankind, ultimately control the entire resources of all the component nations, and will enact such laws as shall be required to regulate the life, satisfy the needs and adjust the relationships of all races and peoples. A world executive, backed by an international Force, will carry out the decisions arrived at, and apply the laws enacted by, this world legislature, and will safeguard the organic unity of the whole commonwealth. A world tribunal will adjudicate and deliver its compulsory and final verdict in all and any disputes that may arise between the various elements constituting this universal system. A mechanism of world inter-communication will be devised, embracing the whole planet, freed from national hindrances and restrictions, and functioning with marvellous swiftness and perfect regularity. A world metropolis will act as the nerve center of a world civilization, the focus towards which the unifying forces of life will converge and from which its energizing influences will radiate. A world language will either be invented or chosen from among the existing languages and will be taught in the schools of all the federated nations as an auxiliary to their mother tongue. A world script, a world literature, a uniform and universal system of currency, of weights and measures, will simplify and facilitate intercourse and understanding among the nations and races of mankind.
from http://bahai-library.com/writings/shoghieffendi/wob/woball.html#203

 

[loverofhumanity]

A Divine New World Order, as enunciated by Bahausllah.... Look at that!
Well, the first thing that you could do about it, is accept it, because up till now you have been denying it's embryonic existence.... That is a World theocracy, right there, right under your nose.

It's not a world theocracy. It is a System that is one of a kind. The only theocracies have been man made.

theocracy
/θɪˈɒkrəsi /
▸ noun
(pl. theocracies)
a system of government in which priests rule in the name of God or a god:

We have no priests or individuals with power. We are not a theocracy.

 

[oldbadger]

If you take your spectacles off, that world theocracy will disappear from the end of your nose. The New World Order as enunciated by Baha'u'llah is a system with a world legislature, judiciary and executive, the first elected by the peoples of the world, the second by parliaments of the world, a world order that unites nations and creeds. It is a secular order, which must inherently include the separation of church and state (otherwise it couldn't unite the creeds). If you stretch the word "theocracy" to include a secular democratic order with the separation of church and state, then the US and UK and Canada are your kind of theocracy.

Specs on...... this from the Bahai Prophet himself:

Of old it hath been revealed: "Love of one’s country is an element of the Faith of God." The Tongue of Grandeur hath, however, in the day of His manifestation proclaimed: "It is not his to boast who loveth his country, but it is his who loveth the world." Through the power released by these exalted words He hath lent a fresh impulse, and set a new direction, to the birds of men’s hearts, and hath obliterated every trace of restriction and limitation from God’s holy Book.

O people of Justice! Be as brilliant as the light, and as splendid as the fire that blazed in the Burning Bush. The brightness of the fire of your love will no doubt fuse and unify the contending peoples and kindreds of the earth, whilst the fierceness of the flame of enmity and hatred cannot but result in strife and ruin. We beseech God that He may shield His creatures from the evil designs of His enemies. He verily hath power over all things.

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It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens.

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Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.

It's there but you cannot see it.
The written word is clear but veiled.

 

[oldbadger]

It's not a world theocracy. It is a System that is one of a kind. The only theocracies have been man made.

theocracy
/θɪˈɒkrəsi /
▸ noun
(pl. theocracies)
a system of government in which priests rule in the name of God or a god:

We have no priests or individuals with power. We are not a theocracy.

Bahais surely do not believe that there has ever been a theocracy since the OT laws were passed?
Or do you accept that Islamic and Christian rules were truly Ordained by God?
To a Bahai there never has been a theocracy.

However, Bahai is a system of World Order Ordained by God..... a theocracy.

More definitions to counter yours!:-
Theocracy definition
, a form of government in which God or a deity is recognized as the supreme civil ruler, the God's or deity's laws being interpreted by the ...
Theocracy - definition of theocracy by The Free Dictionary
www.thefreedictionary.com/theocracyHYPERLINK \l ""
the·oc·ra·cy (thē-ŏk′rə-sē) n. pl. the·oc·ra·cies 1. Government ruled by or subject to religious authority. 2. A country or state governed in this way ...

In the above definitions the interpretation of laws and governing body would be the UHJ.

 

[oldbadger]

That has been my point since the get-go here! The later leaders were just representing and expounding on Baha'u'llah's writings. And Shoghi Effendi is particularly veiled and flowery in his writing such that few Baha'is understand some essential things.

Yes.... I know.
I'm going to read Bahauallah for his opinion, because even the best mind deciding on what the Bahai prophet thought cannot be as pure as the prophet simply writing about his thoughts and received messages.