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Does the Bahai Faith hope and intend to be a World Theocracy?
- Thread starter oldbadger
- Start date
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Opps, hit the wrong button. Anyway, I had a question about the line... Of old it hath been revealed: "Love of one’s country is an element of the Faith of God." What religion promotes "love of one's country"? And the definition that said... Theocracy or ecclesiocracy is a form of government in which a deity is the source from which all authority derives... Why would the Baha'is complain about that? Do they have a form of government? Is it based on "God's" word as revealed by Baha'u'llah? It's strange they keep on saying, and saying, and saying... that Baha'i Law is only for the Baha'is. It's still a governing body that has God's authority behind it.
And, like you keep saying that what happens if the Baha'i Faith becomes the dominant religion? These "secular" leaders could and probably would be Baha'is or at least those that would support Baha'i ideals. Those leaders then would have to get people to enforce the laws. They would then have to have punishments and a place to put those that refuse to conform to the "civil" law... which, of course, would be based on the teachings of Baha'u'llah.
Theoretically, that would be great. It's God's perfect, just and divine law. But, who can, and who ever has been able to live by the rules of religion? Even the spiritual leaders of religions fall once in a while. And, even though, the Baha'i Faith doesn't have "priests", it still has spiritual teachers and leaders... Of which the Baha'i Faith has plenty. And, they aren't perfect. Supposedly, only the UHJ, when doing their UHJ thing, is infallible, but what about the "secular" leaders put into power by Baha'is? What if one of those leaders goes rogue? What would the UHJ do? Considering the person voted in probably would be a Baha'i and subject to their authority? Like I'm totally sure the Baha'is would vote in someone from another religion or an atheist.
But another thing that's in the back of a lot of peoples mind, because of Christians, is that a world government is a bad thing. They say it's going to be the anti-christ and the beast trying to bring unity. I also seem to remember something about Christ wouldn't return as long as there's wars and rumors of war. So if they are right, Jesus shouldn't have even come yet, and he won't return until after the bad guys try and unite the world under a one world government. Yet, the Baha'is say Jesus has returned already, in spite of wars and rumors of war, in the form of Baha'u'llah? So do you have any thoughts on that?
And, like you keep saying that what happens if the Baha'i Faith becomes the dominant religion? These "secular" leaders could and probably would be Baha'is or at least those that would support Baha'i ideals. Those leaders then would have to get people to enforce the laws. They would then have to have punishments and a place to put those that refuse to conform to the "civil" law... which, of course, would be based on the teachings of Baha'u'llah.
Theoretically, that would be great. It's God's perfect, just and divine law. But, who can, and who ever has been able to live by the rules of religion? Even the spiritual leaders of religions fall once in a while. And, even though, the Baha'i Faith doesn't have "priests", it still has spiritual teachers and leaders... Of which the Baha'i Faith has plenty. And, they aren't perfect. Supposedly, only the UHJ, when doing their UHJ thing, is infallible, but what about the "secular" leaders put into power by Baha'is? What if one of those leaders goes rogue? What would the UHJ do? Considering the person voted in probably would be a Baha'i and subject to their authority? Like I'm totally sure the Baha'is would vote in someone from another religion or an atheist.
But another thing that's in the back of a lot of peoples mind, because of Christians, is that a world government is a bad thing. They say it's going to be the anti-christ and the beast trying to bring unity. I also seem to remember something about Christ wouldn't return as long as there's wars and rumors of war. So if they are right, Jesus shouldn't have even come yet, and he won't return until after the bad guys try and unite the world under a one world government. Yet, the Baha'is say Jesus has returned already, in spite of wars and rumors of war, in the form of Baha'u'llah? So do you have any thoughts on that?
You leave out priests as well you leave out it is unique which means one of a kind so it is not to be compared to any system previously known to man.
With what do you compare the Baha'i System to?
Sen McGlinn
Member
Bahais believe that God has endorsed democracy, freedom of the press, the equality of men and women and universal education. So by your logic, any country with these -- such as the United States -- is already a theocracy. But you are just playing with an idiosyncratic definition of "theocracy." A theocracy in political science is where the political order is ruled by, or replaced by, the religious order. By that definition, the Bahai Faith does not hope for a theocracy, in fact the idea is condemned in the strongest terms by Abdu'l-Baha.
One thing not addressed here nor even looked at is the models of authority that exist currently compared to that in the Baha'i System. The current system is based upon materialism, consumerism, capitalism and greed while the Baha'i System is based upon virtues and spiritual qualities such as love, unity, truthfulness and trustworthiness.
Human beings need governance and organisation in some form to function just as the varying organs of the human body are coordinated by the brain to all function in harmony with each other. That is necessary for the body to exist. So too, the body politic of humanity requires coordination for it to function as a healthy entity.
Currently, it is not functioning harmoniously so within the body politic of humanity various afflictions and diseases have arisen causing the body to malfunction and suffer.
To correct this affliction the disease of disunity needs to be removed from the body and that can only be done by introducing a remedy which promotes the unity of all the organs (nations) in this body politic, the world, so they function harmoniously producing health once again.
And the greatest instrument for the healing of all nations has been given by the Divine Physician, Bahaullah, Who is the Promised One foretold by Christ and all the Prophets and His Remedy is the Kingdom of God on earth in His Own Words
"That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician. This, verily, is the truth, and all else naught but error."
Human beings need governance and organisation in some form to function just as the varying organs of the human body are coordinated by the brain to all function in harmony with each other. That is necessary for the body to exist. So too, the body politic of humanity requires coordination for it to function as a healthy entity.
Currently, it is not functioning harmoniously so within the body politic of humanity various afflictions and diseases have arisen causing the body to malfunction and suffer.
To correct this affliction the disease of disunity needs to be removed from the body and that can only be done by introducing a remedy which promotes the unity of all the organs (nations) in this body politic, the world, so they function harmoniously producing health once again.
And the greatest instrument for the healing of all nations has been given by the Divine Physician, Bahaullah, Who is the Promised One foretold by Christ and all the Prophets and His Remedy is the Kingdom of God on earth in His Own Words
"That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician. This, verily, is the truth, and all else naught but error."
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arthra
Baha'i
Hi Didymus... I'll make an effort to respond here to some of your comments using blue italics. Thanks for your interest!
CG Didymus, wrote:
Opps, hit the wrong button. Anyway, I had a question about the line... Of old it hath been revealed: "Love of one’s country is an element of the Faith of God." What religion promotes "love of one's country"? And the definition that said... Theocracy or ecclesiocracy is a form of government in which a deity is the source from which all authority derives...
I would suggest the reference may be to countries with state religions...of which to day there are likely few... It may go back to an adage I heard repeated in an orthodox church some years ago "the state support the religion and the religion supports the state"... Iran currently is based as you may know on an "Islamic Revolution". While Baha'is are obedient to the state they also look ahead to a world perspective where there is a representative world parliament ... so Baha'u'llah revealed the following:
Of old it hath been revealed: "Love of one's country is an element of the Faith of God." The Tongue of Grandeur hath, however, in the day of His manifestation proclaimed: "It is not his to boast who loveth his country, but it is his who loveth the world."
~ Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 95
Why would the Baha'is complain about that? Do they have a form of government? Is it based on "God's" word as revealed by Baha'u'llah? It's strange they keep on saying, and saying, and saying... that Baha'i Law is only for the Baha'is. It's still a governing body that has God's authority behind it.
I don't know that we're "complaining" Didymus but there is an administrative order revealed by Baha'u'llah and outlined by Abdul-Baha and it primarily concerns the Baha'i community.
And, like you keep saying that what happens if the Baha'i Faith becomes the dominant religion? These "secular" leaders could and probably would be Baha'is or at least those that would support Baha'i ideals. Those leaders then would have to get people to enforce the laws. They would then have to have punishments and a place to put those that refuse to conform to the "civil" law... which, of course, would be based on the teachings of Baha'u'llah.
Currently Didymus... Baha'is are not a "dominant religion"... We're definitely a minority. We do not involve ourselves in political affairs. We're non-partisan and can hold no partisan offices... and again our Baha'i laws are solely for the Baha'i community. If there is a country in the future with something like a Baha'i culture and some influence is possible in society we'll have to see what guidance we receive from our elected institutions but rest assured we are not interested in political partisan issues as such.
Theoretically, that would be great. It's God's perfect, just and divine law. But, who can, and who ever has been able to live by the rules of religion? Even the spiritual leaders of religions fall once in a while. And, even though, the Baha'i Faith doesn't have "priests", it still has spiritual teachers and leaders... Of which the Baha'i Faith has plenty. And, they aren't perfect. Supposedly, only the UHJ, when doing their UHJ thing, is infallible, but what about the "secular" leaders put into power by Baha'is? What if one of those leaders goes rogue? What would the UHJ do? Considering the person voted in probably would be a Baha'i and subject to their authority? Like I'm totally sure the Baha'is would vote in someone from another religion or an atheist.
Again you're making an assumption that Baha'is would be involved in politics and I'm assuring you that we have no partisan interests. We cannot belong to any political parties. We can vote in elections and some of us can serve on non-partisan advisory commissions.
But another thing that's in the back of a lot of peoples mind, because of Christians, is that a world government is a bad thing. They say it's going to be the anti-christ and the beast trying to bring unity. I also seem to remember something about Christ wouldn't return as long as there's wars and rumors of war. So if they are right, Jesus shouldn't have even come yet, and he won't return until after the bad guys try and unite the world under a one world government. Yet, the Baha'is say Jesus has returned already, in spite of wars and rumors of war, in the form of Baha'u'llah? So do you have any thoughts on that
Peace on earth is an expectation found in the Bible and Jesus offered a prayer that the Kingdom of God would come and that the will of God would be made known... so in this sense we suggest that Christians and others can find solace and peace in this world. I would encourage you to explore the work of the Parliament of World Religions in this regard.
https://parliamentofreligions.org/programs/faiths-against-hate-18
also see:
https://parliamentofreligions.org/search/node/Baha'i
CG Didymus, wrote:
Opps, hit the wrong button. Anyway, I had a question about the line... Of old it hath been revealed: "Love of one’s country is an element of the Faith of God." What religion promotes "love of one's country"? And the definition that said... Theocracy or ecclesiocracy is a form of government in which a deity is the source from which all authority derives...
I would suggest the reference may be to countries with state religions...of which to day there are likely few... It may go back to an adage I heard repeated in an orthodox church some years ago "the state support the religion and the religion supports the state"... Iran currently is based as you may know on an "Islamic Revolution". While Baha'is are obedient to the state they also look ahead to a world perspective where there is a representative world parliament ... so Baha'u'llah revealed the following:
Of old it hath been revealed: "Love of one's country is an element of the Faith of God." The Tongue of Grandeur hath, however, in the day of His manifestation proclaimed: "It is not his to boast who loveth his country, but it is his who loveth the world."
~ Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 95
Why would the Baha'is complain about that? Do they have a form of government? Is it based on "God's" word as revealed by Baha'u'llah? It's strange they keep on saying, and saying, and saying... that Baha'i Law is only for the Baha'is. It's still a governing body that has God's authority behind it.
I don't know that we're "complaining" Didymus but there is an administrative order revealed by Baha'u'llah and outlined by Abdul-Baha and it primarily concerns the Baha'i community.
And, like you keep saying that what happens if the Baha'i Faith becomes the dominant religion? These "secular" leaders could and probably would be Baha'is or at least those that would support Baha'i ideals. Those leaders then would have to get people to enforce the laws. They would then have to have punishments and a place to put those that refuse to conform to the "civil" law... which, of course, would be based on the teachings of Baha'u'llah.
Currently Didymus... Baha'is are not a "dominant religion"... We're definitely a minority. We do not involve ourselves in political affairs. We're non-partisan and can hold no partisan offices... and again our Baha'i laws are solely for the Baha'i community. If there is a country in the future with something like a Baha'i culture and some influence is possible in society we'll have to see what guidance we receive from our elected institutions but rest assured we are not interested in political partisan issues as such.
Theoretically, that would be great. It's God's perfect, just and divine law. But, who can, and who ever has been able to live by the rules of religion? Even the spiritual leaders of religions fall once in a while. And, even though, the Baha'i Faith doesn't have "priests", it still has spiritual teachers and leaders... Of which the Baha'i Faith has plenty. And, they aren't perfect. Supposedly, only the UHJ, when doing their UHJ thing, is infallible, but what about the "secular" leaders put into power by Baha'is? What if one of those leaders goes rogue? What would the UHJ do? Considering the person voted in probably would be a Baha'i and subject to their authority? Like I'm totally sure the Baha'is would vote in someone from another religion or an atheist.
Again you're making an assumption that Baha'is would be involved in politics and I'm assuring you that we have no partisan interests. We cannot belong to any political parties. We can vote in elections and some of us can serve on non-partisan advisory commissions.
But another thing that's in the back of a lot of peoples mind, because of Christians, is that a world government is a bad thing. They say it's going to be the anti-christ and the beast trying to bring unity. I also seem to remember something about Christ wouldn't return as long as there's wars and rumors of war. So if they are right, Jesus shouldn't have even come yet, and he won't return until after the bad guys try and unite the world under a one world government. Yet, the Baha'is say Jesus has returned already, in spite of wars and rumors of war, in the form of Baha'u'llah? So do you have any thoughts on that
Peace on earth is an expectation found in the Bible and Jesus offered a prayer that the Kingdom of God would come and that the will of God would be made known... so in this sense we suggest that Christians and others can find solace and peace in this world. I would encourage you to explore the work of the Parliament of World Religions in this regard.
https://parliamentofreligions.org/programs/faiths-against-hate-18
also see:
https://parliamentofreligions.org/search/node/Baha'i
There were wars and rumours of wars in Baha'u'llah's time as well as earthquakes but there are also many, many prophecies in the Bible regarding Baha'u'llah and the place of the Second Coming.
Just one of them here. It says that in the latter days
Jeremiah 49:38
38 And I will set my throne in Elam,
and will destroy from thence the king and the princes,
saith the Lord.
Now where is Elam exactly? According not to Baha'is but according to Eerdman's Dictionary of the Bible.
ELAM (Heb. ʽêlām) (PLACE)
Name denoting both a region in highland Fars province (Iran) around the modern city of Shiraz..
The city of Shiraz.
The Baha'i Faith began in Shiraz.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Bahá'í_Faith
There are too many prophecies to list but this one shows that the Prophets looked to Iran (Elam) as God establishing His Throne upon (His Manifestation- Revelation)
From the book the archeology of Elam we read...
The prophet Daniel dreamt that he was ‘at Shushan in the palace which is in the province of Elam’ (Daniel 8: 2),
Loftus excavated the first bricks and clay cones with Elamite inscriptions at Shush in 1852.
1852 was the very year Baha'u'llah received His first Revelation.
In the early 1970s, inscribed bricks were discovered at the archaeological site of Tal-i Malyan near Shiraz in the highlands of Fars which proved that it was the ancient city of Anshan. A Capitol of Elam.
Christians scholars do agree that Iran is important but they don't understand its significance , that it was a new revelation, the Baha'i Faith the Bible spoke of.
This is from a Christian website. Remember Elam is the area of Shiraz where the Baha'i Faith began.
http://www.defendproclaimthefaith.org/elam_letter_days.html
"It also speaks of the God of Israel setting His throne in Elam. This has never happened. This is all future because this prophecy was never fulfilled. It appears that with Elam now the focus of world attention, God is about to fulfill it."
Just one of them here. It says that in the latter days
Jeremiah 49:38
38 And I will set my throne in Elam,
and will destroy from thence the king and the princes,
saith the Lord.
Now where is Elam exactly? According not to Baha'is but according to Eerdman's Dictionary of the Bible.
ELAM (Heb. ʽêlām) (PLACE)
Name denoting both a region in highland Fars province (Iran) around the modern city of Shiraz..
The city of Shiraz.
The Baha'i Faith began in Shiraz.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Bahá'í_Faith
There are too many prophecies to list but this one shows that the Prophets looked to Iran (Elam) as God establishing His Throne upon (His Manifestation- Revelation)
From the book the archeology of Elam we read...
The prophet Daniel dreamt that he was ‘at Shushan in the palace which is in the province of Elam’ (Daniel 8: 2),
Loftus excavated the first bricks and clay cones with Elamite inscriptions at Shush in 1852.
1852 was the very year Baha'u'llah received His first Revelation.
In the early 1970s, inscribed bricks were discovered at the archaeological site of Tal-i Malyan near Shiraz in the highlands of Fars which proved that it was the ancient city of Anshan. A Capitol of Elam.
Christians scholars do agree that Iran is important but they don't understand its significance , that it was a new revelation, the Baha'i Faith the Bible spoke of.
This is from a Christian website. Remember Elam is the area of Shiraz where the Baha'i Faith began.
http://www.defendproclaimthefaith.org/elam_letter_days.html
"It also speaks of the God of Israel setting His throne in Elam. This has never happened. This is all future because this prophecy was never fulfilled. It appears that with Elam now the focus of world attention, God is about to fulfill it."
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Who really cares what they want, doesn't all religions want to be the number one religion over all else, of course they do, so lets not be so hypocritical.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Hi Didymus!
I can't answer your questions with any authority....... me Deist..... that's more or less 'pagan'!
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
The Bahai System is what Bahai's believe to be that wish is Divine.... Ordained by God.
Since Bahais believe uit to be unique, as defined by Bahauallah, then it cannot be compared by them.
I have been reading some of Bahauallah's writings, and it would seem that it is hoped that one day Houses of Justice run by men will control localities, and on upwards. A crucial law shows that these Houses, whether local, national or World will in fact be governing those areas. The crucial law is TREASURE TROVE which the Kitab i AQDAS givres a ruling upon. Now, in your idea of a Bahai World where secular governments would still control secular issues, this Bahai Law would never need to exist.
This fixes it, I think. And by the way, if the feminists of the world should scrutinise parts of this 'book' then you would have yet further difficulties, methinks! And if the laws on inheritance, Wills and death duties would be read with care there would be yet further debate.
All that matters is that the needless suffering in humanity ends and the poor receive relief and people have proper health care and employment.
Who gives a brass razoo which religion is first or last or thousandth?
It's the people that matter most. And we urgently need peace and to end all wars.
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This is the what the Baha'i Faith is all about... World Peace. Love & unity, nothing else
"The cause of peace is a very great cause; it is the Cause of God, and all the forces of the world are opposed to it.
Governments, for instance, consider militarism as the step to human progress, that division among men and nations is the cause of patriotism and honor, that if one nation attack and conquer another, gaining wealth, territory and glory thereby, this warfare and conquest, this bloodshed and cruelty are the cause of that victorious nation’s advancement and prosperity. This is an utter mistake.
Compare the nations of the world to the members of a family. A family is a nation in miniature. Simply enlarge the circle of the household, and you have the nation. Enlarge the circle of nations, and you have all humanity. The conditions surrounding the family surround the nation. The happenings in the family are the happenings in the life of the nation.
Would it add to the progress and advancement of a family if dissensions should arise among its members, all fighting, pillaging each other, jealous and revengeful of injury, seeking selfish advantage? Nay, this would be the cause of the effacement of progress and advancement. So it is in the great family of nations, for nations are but an aggregate of families. Therefore, as strife and dissension destroy a family and prevent its progress, so nations are destroyed and advancement hindered. (Abdul-Bahá'í)
http://centenary.bahai.us/talk/oneness-humanity-ensures-glorification-man
"The cause of peace is a very great cause; it is the Cause of God, and all the forces of the world are opposed to it.
Governments, for instance, consider militarism as the step to human progress, that division among men and nations is the cause of patriotism and honor, that if one nation attack and conquer another, gaining wealth, territory and glory thereby, this warfare and conquest, this bloodshed and cruelty are the cause of that victorious nation’s advancement and prosperity. This is an utter mistake.
Compare the nations of the world to the members of a family. A family is a nation in miniature. Simply enlarge the circle of the household, and you have the nation. Enlarge the circle of nations, and you have all humanity. The conditions surrounding the family surround the nation. The happenings in the family are the happenings in the life of the nation.
Would it add to the progress and advancement of a family if dissensions should arise among its members, all fighting, pillaging each other, jealous and revengeful of injury, seeking selfish advantage? Nay, this would be the cause of the effacement of progress and advancement. So it is in the great family of nations, for nations are but an aggregate of families. Therefore, as strife and dissension destroy a family and prevent its progress, so nations are destroyed and advancement hindered. (Abdul-Bahá'í)
http://centenary.bahai.us/talk/oneness-humanity-ensures-glorification-man
The Bahai System is what Bahai's believe to be that wish is Divine.... Ordained by God.
Since Bahais believe uit to be unique, as defined by Bahauallah, then it cannot be compared by them.
I have been reading some of Bahauallah's writings, and it would seem that it is hoped that one day Houses of Justice run by men will control localities, and on upwards. A crucial law shows that these Houses, whether local, national or World will in fact be governing those areas. The crucial law is TREASURE TROVE which the Kitab i AQDAS givres a ruling upon. Now, in your idea of a Bahai World where secular governments would still control secular issues, this Bahai Law would never need to exist.
This fixes it, I think. And by the way, if the feminists of the world should scrutinise parts of this 'book' then you would have yet further difficulties, methinks! And if the laws on inheritance, Wills and death duties would be read with care there would be yet further debate.
You're making mistakes again. The laws on estate do not apply where one has left a will and it is a law of the Most Holy Book to write a will.
"Bahá'u'lláh clearly establishes the making of a will. In Law 109, He instructs:
"Unto everyone hath been enjoined the writing of a will."
So a Baha'i can leave his entire estate to his daughters if he so wishes. There are no restrictions whatsoever on who one can leave their estate to.
You could leave it all to a feminist non Baha'i. There is no restriction.
You are correct. The treasure trove law would never be enforced in a secular society.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
I never wrote anything about it! I wrote that various aspects were open to debate.
Aspects which you missed?
If you want to debate Wills and Inheritance in connection with femakle emancipation then that would need its own thread, surely?
We could include the role of women in Houses of Justice?
Now... to the matter of Houses of Justice deliberating upon Treasure Trove.
Of course treasure trove law is enforced in a secular society!
It is in England and is very precise. Our Senior Courts deliberate upon such matters.
But in a Bahai World Houses of Justice would judge these matters? Theocracy!
So Houses of Justice will not just deal with matters spiritual and religious, will they?
Houses of Justice will be present Locally, Nationally and Universally to control everything.... in a Bahai World.
This is clearly shown by the inclusion of such deliberations and actions by Bahai.
In a Bahai World, there would be a Bahai theocracy, and as far as Bahais would be concerned it would be the first theocracy Ordained by God, not man made, since the old laws of Exodus, Leviticus and Deuteronomy.
I found that in the time it takes to drink a mug of tea. I stopped there, really.
There will be more........... but I feel sure that in a public debate the congregation would feel reassured that the answer to the Thread Question is 'Yes'.
Quad Erat Demonstrandum.[/QUOTE]
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
You are writing about Bahai today, now, at this time.
Bahauallah writes about the future.
And Bahauallah has written that even secular judicial matters such as Treasure Trove will be judged and acted upon by Houses of Justice.
There will be more, but that single paragraph is probably enough to show an objective audience that Houses of Justice at Local, National and Universal levels will be judging and acting upon non-spiritual matters.
That's it. Bahauallah wrote it.
[/QUOTE]
I meant Bahá'í Administration would never impose their law on treasure trove upon secular society. It would only apply the Baha'i law to Baha'is if there was no other law available. Sorry for not being more clear about that.
You could start another topic if you like. Something like is Baha'u'llah the Promised One or the return of Jesus. Women on the House of Justice is not a teaching of our Faith so there's nothing to discuss and I wouldn't be taking part.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Cannot split your post. On a mobile.
The treasure trove legislation shows that Baha'i hopes to be a theocracy. Anybody who finds treasure trove must report to that country's official courts. You cannot choose your court.
Ergo. Baha'i hopes to be a controlling body, which would bevabtheocracy.
My point was not about women on the House of Justice, it was about women on Houses of Justice. That is totally new to me.
That was a surprise.
Your suggestion about thread 'is Bahauallah Jesus returned is strange to me. I believe in Historic Jesus absolutely but not ChristsonofGod Jesus.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
One verse don't mean that much to me. In context starting with 49:34 in Jeremiah. What's it talking about?
34 The word of Jehovah that came to Jeremiah the prophet concerning Elam, in the beginning of the reign of Zedekiah king of Judah, saying, 35 Thus saith Jehovah of hosts: Behold, I will break the bow of Elam, the chief of their might.
36 And upon Elam will I bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven, and will scatter them toward all those winds; and there shall be no nation whither the outcasts of Elam shall not come.
37 And I will cause Elam to be dismayed before their enemies, and before them that seek their life; and I will bring evil upon them, even my fierce anger, saith Jehovah; and I will send the sword after them, till I have consumed them; 38 and I will set my throne in Elam, and will destroy from thence king and princes, saith Jehovah.
39 But it shall come to pass in the latter days, that I will bring back the captivity of Elam, saith Jehovah.
And can you comment on the Christian verses that talk about the beast and anti-christ. I'm sure you are very familiar with the belief of some Christians that the anti-christ will try and set up a world government.
Cannot split your post. On a mobile.
The treasure trove legislation shows that Baha'i hopes to be a theocracy. Anybody who finds treasure trove must report to that country's official courts. You cannot choose your court.
Ergo. Baha'i hopes to be a controlling body, which would bevabtheocracy.
My point was not about women on the House of Justice, it was about women on Houses of Justice. That is totally new to me.
That was a surprise.
Your suggestion about thread 'is Bahauallah Jesus returned is strange to me. I believe in Historic Jesus absolutely but not ChristsonofGod Jesus.
Hi old badger. The thing about treasure trove is like any Bahá'í law. It only applies to Baha'is but say if it happened now Baha'is would be bound by the laws of the land so it's a ute point I think.
Ok women on Houses of Justice.
Baha'u'llah's entire Revelation is based upon Him being the Promised One foretold by all Faiths as all the major Faiths await such a Promised One. Christians await the return of Christ, Jews, the Lord of Hosts, Buddhists, Maeitrya, and Muslims the 12th Imam etc. So this is a big, big claim.
It is even said that when the world becomes aware of the claims of Baha'u'llah they will unitedly oppose the Baha'i Faith.
"Let him be aware that so soon as the full measure of the stupendous claim of the Faith of Bahá’u’lláh comes to be recognized by those time-honored and powerful strongholds of orthodoxy, whose deliberate aim is to maintain their stranglehold over the thoughts and consciences of men, this infant Faith will have to contend with enemies more powerful and more insidious than the cruellest torture-mongers and the most fanatical clerics who have afflicted it in the past. What foes may not in the course of the convulsions that shall seize a dying civilization be brought into existence, who will reinforce the indignities which have already been heaped upon it!"
From Abdul-Bahá
Erelong shall the clamor of the multitude throughout Africa, throughout America, the cry of the European and of the Turk, the groaning of India and China, be heard from far and near. One and all, they shall arise with all their power to resist His Cause. Then shall the knights of the Lord … reinforced by the legions
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Ok. Anyway I'm enjoying the back and forth posts between you and the Baha'is. Keep up the great questions.Hi Didymus!
I can't answer your questions with any authority....... me Deist..... that's more or less 'pagan'!