Does The Bible Contain Errors And Contradictions

[Left Coast]

The concept of substitutionary atonement makes absolutely no sense when one analyzes it.

All versions of Christianity don't subscribe to substitutionary atonement.

But I'm intrigued beyond that - what's your critique of SA?

 

[YoursTrue]

Jesus may have been a fairly wise man that was deeply religious and had a following. The following may have been seen as a threat by both traditional Hebrews and by Rome. He was crucified and died on the cross for that. And like the people that believe in Trump they could not take such a loss and so invented their own myths.

That's your analysis of it. Naturally might as well go back to Dr. Hawking's estimation that the universe came from -- uh -- nothing. So if you believe that, you're in good stead with others. But really not 'all' religions and sects believe the same way. I leave that recognition between you and God, of course, the one you don't believe in, but I do. So I leave it there. (Have a good one...)

 

[paarsurrey]

Does The Bible Contain Errors And Contradictions​

Just to add (to post#1,130 ) that, not only JW's (and Latter Day Saints aka Mormons) , I get, all Pauline denominations 45000+ of them say to one another a "cult" (as a snub), so in this sense, one could say, that they are all "cults"; and also since none of them follows (Jesus)Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah in his deeds as well his truthful teachings, so they are all "cults", right, please?
To come out of this stigma they must all of them come out of this Hellenist blot, please, not to make a human (Jesus)Yeshua their God, which he never was, please, right?

Regards

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Jesus may have been a fairly wise man that was deeply religious and had a following. The following may have been seen as a threat by both traditional Hebrews and by Rome. He was crucified and died on the cross for that. And like the people that believe in Trump they could not take such a loss and so invented their own myths.

Well said, in my opinion. It was definitely an eye-opener for me when I read about Jesus in comparative theology, as I explained in my prior post (linked below). It made me realize that his savior story wasn't unique, and that paganism had a profound impact on Christianity, particularly on stories about him.

Jesus Failed Right?

Jesus spent 3 years trying to convert people right. Only ended up with twelve disciples. One of whom denied him, Matt. 26:69-75. One who betrayed him, Matt. 26:15. While on the cross he was derided and mocked. Matthew 27:39–44. Jesus said he came for the Jews, Matthew 15:24. Who he was...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I always tried to maintain an amicable conversation with JWs when I was an evangelist and street preacher,…

I’m sure you did. We do the same, striving to be “gentle toward all.” 2 Timothy 2:24

…even when some of them were heckling me and being very belligerent while I was street preaching and evangelizing.

Who were “some of them” that you mean?

Certainly not Jehovah’s Witnesses. We don’t engage in any type of belligerent behavior.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Okay, being open with poor beliefs in no way indicates that you are not a cult. And there are behaviors that are significantly downplayed there. For that you would need to go to ex-JW's to tell their side of the story of how they were treated when they realized that the church was in error.

First of all, you say “poor beliefs” without mentioning any specific ones.

Then, you state “there are behaviors” and again fail to be specific.

As far as “ex-JW’s” are concerned, many are probably ex-JW’s because they were hiding their behaviors. And then lying about it.

So, take their word with a grain of salt. Asking their opinion about Jehovah’s organization, is akin to asking Trump’s opinion about Biden. Or Judas Iscariot about Jesus.

Very few Jehovah’s Witnesses are disfellowshipped over apostasy.

 

[Subduction Zone]

First of all, you say “poor beliefs” without mentioning any specific ones.

Then, you state “there are behaviors” and again fail to be specific.

As far as “ex-JW’s” are concerned, many are probably ex-JW’s because they were hiding their behaviors. And then lying about it.

So, take their word with a grain of salt. Asking their opinion about Jehovah’s organization, is akin to asking Trump’s opinion about Biden. Or Judas Iscariot about Jesus.

Very few Jehovah’s Witnesses are disfellowshipped over apostasy.

One of the signs that one is in a cult is when the fault of those that leave your group is always their fault. And a second is how are those people treated. You can't admit to yourself that your religion immorally shuns people at times. Including telling family members to shun their own family members:

What Happens to Those Who Exit Jehovah’s Witnesses: An Investigation of the Impact of Shunning

Shunning and ostracism have severe impacts on individuals’ psychological and social well-being. Members of Jehovah’s Witnesses are subject to shunning when they do not comply with the stated doctrine or belief system. To investigate the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

If a woman that is a member of your church who is married and has children how does your church react if she sees the light?

 

[stvdv]

One of the signs that one is in a cult is when

IF they believe that their beliefs are superior
IF they believe that other beliefs are inferior

 

[Subduction Zone]

IF they believe that their beliefs are superior
IF they believe that other beliefs are inferior

I would change that to "their untestable beliefs" and "other untestable beliefs". If various sets of ideas are testable then we can often tell which ones are better. That is how the sciences work. Inferior ideas are tossed away and better ideas are put through more changes.

 

[stvdv]

IF they believe that their beliefs are superior
IF they believe that other beliefs are inferior

I would change that to "their untestable beliefs" and "other untestable beliefs". If various sets of ideas are testable then we can often tell which ones are better. That is how the sciences work. Inferior ideas are tossed away and better ideas are put through more changes.

Keywords in my reply are "superior" + "inferior"
I am fine what others believe, that's their life
As long as they don't impose, belittle others

The moment they start, like

Hitler with "Arians are the superior race"​

Pigs with "All animals are equal, but pigs are more equal"​

Telling others, that:

"Christianity is the superior Religion"​

"Islam is the superior Religion"​

"Bahai is the superior Religion"​

"XXX is the superior faith/ideology/science etc"​

"Jesus is the superior savior"​

"Muhammad is the superior savior"​

"Bahaullah is the superior savior"​

"XXX(wo)man is the superior savior"​

AND​

"Disbelievers, Atheists, Humanists go to Hell"​

Then they are a danger to the others and to humanity (being humane, peace on earth)

We all are humans. Superiority complex is clearly ignorance, which leads to violence, not to love, and never to the truth. They better start be humble and humane, if truth is their goal

Stop belittling is a major first step for those

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Depends upon how one defines the word "cult"...
View attachment 92757
Seems to me that ALL theologies can be considered a "cult".
Honestly, it seems to me the only reason the word is not correctly used is because it hurts to many peoples feelings.

I suppose Matthew 7:21-23 does hurt feelings because Jesus said MANY would prove false to him
Does that make Jesus a cult leader ____________
For 3 1/2 years Jesus referred to half of the Bible books and Jesus lived by what he taught
Jesus used only Scripture as his source of belief and conduct too
Jesus pointed out that people were in captivity to man-made thinking ideas - Matt. 15:9; 7:15
It is men who set up counterfeit Christianity not the teachings of Jesus
Men promote errors and contradictions just as we are forewarned us at Acts 20:29-30
So, it is No surprise about the apostasy setting in just as foretold - 2nd Peter 2:1
There are people who just want teachings to have their 'ears tickled', so to speak - 2nd Timothy 4:3-4
Cult leaders want their followers to follow them, their teachings, but Jesus used and directed his teachings to his God - John 4:23-24
Jesus I.D. mark was to display self-sacrificing love for others - John 13:34-35
That is why Jesus' New Commandment is superior to love neighbor as self, to now love neighbor MORE than self
Globally reach out to others on a grand-international scale as Jesus said at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 Cults don't do that.

 

[McBell]

I suppose Matthew 7:21-23 does hurt feelings because Jesus said MANY would prove false to him
Does that make Jesus a cult leader ____________
For 3 1/2 years Jesus referred to half of the Bible books and Jesus lived by what he taught
Jesus used only Scripture as his source of belief and conduct too
Jesus pointed out that people were in captivity to man-made thinking ideas - Matt. 15:9; 7:15
It is men who set up counterfeit Christianity not the teachings of Jesus
Men promote errors and contradictions just as we are forewarned us at Acts 20:29-30
So, it is No surprise about the apostasy setting in just as foretold - 2nd Peter 2:1
There are people who just want teachings to have their 'ears tickled', so to speak - 2nd Timothy 4:3-4
Cult leaders want their followers to follow them, their teachings, but Jesus used and directed his teachings to his God - John 4:23-24
Jesus I.D. mark was to display self-sacrificing love for others - John 13:34-35
That is why Jesus' New Commandment is superior to love neighbor as self, to now love neighbor MORE than self
Globally reach out to others on a grand-international scale as Jesus said at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 Cults don't do that.

I give that Sermon an A+ on being a sermon.
I rate it an epic fail with being relevant or even on topic.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Keywords in my reply are "superior" + "inferior"...........................................................................................
We all are humans. Superiority complex is clearly ignorance, which leads to violence, not to love, and never to the truth. They better start be humble and humane, if truth is their goal
Stop belittling is a major first step for those

Interesting that you use the word 'superior' because if you read Philippians 2:3-4 it is to esteem others as: superior
Notice what Jesus said at Matthew 23:11 that the greatest among you should serve as your servant
Superiority complex is Ego and Not a scriptural teaching - Philippians 1:15,17; James 3:14,16
Ego stirs up competition and envy - Galatians 5:26 - Christ-like love does Not - 1st Corinthians 13:4-5; 10:24
I find Jesus was both humble and humane and truth was a goal - John 17:17
Pride is before a crash - Proverbs 16:18
That is why Jesus pronounced many 'woes' along with his reasons why against what is false at Matthew chapter 23

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Does The Bible Contain Errors And Contradictions​

Just to add (to post#1,130 ) that, not only JW's (and Latter Day Saints aka Mormons) , I get, all Pauline denominations 45000+ of them say to one another a "cult" (as a snub), so in this sense, one could say, that they are all "cults"; and also since none of them follows (Jesus)Yeshua-

What do you find at www.jw.org that teaches does Not follow Jesus/Yeshua ________________________________________

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The concept of substitutionary atonement makes absolutely no sense when one analyzes it.

Are you speaking about Jesus' ransom - Matthew 20:28 ________
Romans 5:12 is why the ransom gift was necessary
The Ransom is our Foundation of Hope because we are all in a diminished fallen state
Fallen Adam in a sense made copies of himself.
At the United Nations there was a Russian Nesting Doll.
Inside we find smaller versions of the big doll.
We are the smaller versions of what fallen Adam became and passed on to us.
We can't undo what Adam did, we can't save oneself from what Adam did, we can't 'cover' over what Adam did.
We are like a lid that is too small for the pot, we can't properly seal the pot.
But Jesus can be the exact cover, a corresponding fitting lid to seal the pot .
Jesus perfect human life stood for or stands for: an exact life for life, or like for like.
On the balancing scales of justice on one side was fallen Adam on the other side was sinless Jesus.
Thus, Jesus' perfect life balanced the scale for us. What Adam brought down Jesus brought back up to balance.
Jesus being just the right fit makes Jesus the perfect solution to nullify enemy death for us - 1st Cor. 15:24-26
This is because sinless Jesus' life was willing to be cut off being a sacrifice for us.
Jesus' ransom sacrifice was paid to his God for us - Psalm 49:7
Not a pointless exchange but the very high value of Jesus perfect human life for our benefit - Hebrews 9:24

 

[Subduction Zone]

Are you speaking about Jesus' ransom - Matthew 20:28 ________
Romans 5:12 is why the ransom gift was necessary
The Ransom is our Foundation of Hope because we are all in a diminished fallen state
Fallen Adam in a sense made copies of himself.
At the United Nations there was a Russian Nesting Doll.
Inside we find smaller versions of the big doll.
We are the smaller versions of what fallen Adam became and passed on to us.
We can't undo what Adam did, we can't save oneself from what Adam did, we can't 'cover' over what Adam did.
We are like a lid that is too small for the pot, we can't properly seal the pot.
But Jesus can be the exact cover, a corresponding fitting lid to seal the pot .
Jesus perfect human life stood for or stands for: an exact life for life, or like for like.
On the balancing scales of justice on one side was fallen Adam on the other side was sinless Jesus.
Thus, Jesus' perfect life balanced the scale for us. What Adam brought down Jesus brought back up to balance.
Jesus being just the right fit makes Jesus the perfect solution to nullify enemy death for us - 1st Cor. 15:24-26
This is because sinless Jesus' life was willing to be cut off being a sacrifice for us.
Jesus' ransom sacrifice was paid to his God for us - Psalm 49:7
Not a pointless exchange but the very high value of Jesus perfect human life for our benefit - Hebrews 9:24

Your response fails rather quickly when you mention Adam.

And even if that myth was true it would still be a failed concept. God is supposed to be omnipotent. He does not need vengeance. That is a human emotion. He does not need justice. That is a human concept. If he "hates sin" he is omnipotent and can magic it away. There is simply not need for substitutionary atonement. It serves no purpose.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

One of the signs that one is in a cult is when the fault of those that leave your group is always their fault. And a second is how are those people treated.

Many leave Jehovah’s Organization, without getting disfellowshipped!
They just stop coming.
And no shunning is ever enacted / involved.

You can't admit to yourself that your religion immorally shuns people at times. Including telling family members to shun their own family members:

Actually, the Bible provides the guidelines for such action among Christians: 1 Corinthians 5 is one passage.

If a woman that is a member of your church who is married and has children how does your church react if she sees the light?

What “light” would she see, you think?

My first wife was disfellowshipped for immoral conduct, things she did before I married her… That wasn’t “light.”

She was reinstated later.
Many do come back, get reinstated, and become JW’s again.

It is amazing how many ex-JW’s that i know of that got D’Fd for sexual immorality, but then they later begin claiming it was over doctrine!

As I stated in my previous post: very few get disfellowshipped over apostasy.

 

[Ebionite]

Romans 5:12 is why the ransom gift was necessary

Romans 5:12 draws from Romans 3 which starts with an implied false claim about the nature of David's sin (Romans 3:4, Psalm 51).

Also this:

The wicked [shall be] a ransom for the righteous, and the transgressor for the upright.
Proverbs 21:18

Pride is before a crash - Proverbs 16:18

For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.
2 Corinthians 11:5

 

[Hockeycowboy]

If he "hates sin" he is omnipotent and can magic it away.

This argument is related to “If there’s a God, why do bad things happen?”

I and other JW’s on here have answered that question…. @URAVIP2ME , would you like to, using Genesis 3? (Or another way.)
Your answer would be the same as mine.
1 Corinthians 1:10

There is simply not need for substitutionary atonement. It serves no purpose.

Jehovah’s “omnipotence” has always been governed & regulated by His love & justice. And patience.
And we should be thankful. (Whether people understand the reasons behind it or not.)
Otherwise, many of us wouldn’t be here.

 

[oldbadger]

The Holy Bible has been the worlds best selling book, in every generation since the printing press was invented many centuries ago.

Many Historians have studied the 66 books of the Bible, and compared them to secular contemporaries, to see if they could find any contradiction or errors. Most of those who set out to find faults with the Bible, became devout Christians instead. Because they found no faults of contradictions.

It's no different today, many sceptics set out to debunk the Bible and end up becoming believers instead. The vast majority converted to Christianity after finding that all 66 books are reliable, historical documents.

The 66 books of the Bible were written by 36 unrelated authors from various parts of the world over a period of 2,500 years, yet none of the accounts contradict each other. But the main reason so many became believers is due to the 356 prophecies which were fulfilled in Jesus Christ. The whole Bible is about Jesus Christ. God's Prophets foretold of His coming into the world thousands of years before He came.

There is a list in the link, showing every one of the 356 prophecies and their fulfilment. This is well worth a look, as it provides irrefutable evidence that the Bible is a reliable historical document. No other historical figure ever came close to changing the world forever as Jesus Christ did.

AccordingtotheScriptures.org :: 356 Prophecies Fulfilled in Jesus Christ

You haven't looked for yourself, maybe?
How intimately acquainted with the gospels are you, I wonder?
They are riddled with contradictions.
And if you believe that most researchers rushed in to Christianity then you've been bamboozled.