Does the Christian God want you in heaven?

[Spirit of Light]

This has nothing to do with my point. I do not believe God exists. My point is that the Christian doctrine says God does to want to be with me but a perfect me, which is not really me but Jesus in disguise.

Then it becomes a bit difficult to reply to you

 

[Wildswanderer]

In my Christian life I believed that God wanted me to be with Him in heaven. But that is not what the Bible says.

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.~ Romans 8:29-30

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. ~ Matthew 5:48

The idea is you must not have any sin to get to heaven. We must be perfect. This is the reason Jesus died, so we could be sinless in heaven.

But the sinless me is not the real me. I have flaws and do good things and bad things. God does not want to be with me until I am perfect and without sin, only doing good like His son. God wants me to be like Jesus to be with me. God wants Jesus clones, He loves Jesus not me.

What a strange interpretation. If he didn't love the you that is now he would not have volunteered to save you from the things that hurt you.
The perfect you is the real one. It's your living up to your full potential.

 

[Brian2]

Yes, but you have to be transformed into the image of Jesus to be in heaven.

Nobody becomes a clone of Jesus. We are forgiven our sins, and so are sinless in that respect, and our characters have been changed over the years to reflect the character of Jesus more. Iows we are, with our co operation, morally changed to be more like Jesus.
We certainly don't need to be without sin in this life and if we claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. (1John 1:8)

When we are first saved Jesus loves us even though He knows everything we have done and that we will do, and nothing can separate us from that love.

 

[Brian2]

Can I be reunited with God without being forgiven my sin?

Anyone can be drawn back and come back to the Christian faith after leaving.

 

[Five Solas]

In my Christian life I believed that God wanted me to be with Him in heaven. But that is not what the Bible says.

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.~ Romans 8:29-30

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. ~ Matthew 5:48

The idea is you must not have any sin to get to heaven. We must be perfect. This is the reason Jesus died, so we could be sinless in heaven.

But the sinless me is not the real me. I have flaws and do good things and bad things. God does not want to be with me until I am perfect and without sin, only doing good like His son. God wants me to be like Jesus to be with me. God wants Jesus clones, He loves Jesus not me.

I think you are on the right track. You ask the right questions.

Yes, He expects us to be perfect but also remember that He makes you perfect.

The problem is sin. Paul says in Ephesians 2 that we were, by nature, children of wrath; we were born dead in trespasses.

So, why did Jesus have to come? For sins. His work had to do with sin. What He, as God, had to do was to deal with sin.

How?

What is the solution? - there is forgiveness with God. Forgiveness is the answer to the problem of sin and He has provided it in Jesus Christ. Look again at MT 26:28 “For this is My blood of the covenant which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.”


Your issue might be here - do we deserve it? Do we have to be good enough to warrant it? NO!

We can count on that forgiveness because that forgiveness of God is not based on us deserving it, or on us repenting hard enough or often enough - but it's based upon the atoning death of Jesus Christ.

God forgives us not because of us, but because of His Son. That's why Jesus’ forgiveness if forever.

"This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."

God forgives you not because of your faith, not because of your repentance, not because of something good you have done; God forgives you because of Jesus Christ.

How do you receive this forgiveness?

By faith.
You get that forgiveness by faith. You are accepted and forgiven by God by trusting/believing in a righteous substitute - Christ.

 

[Brian2]

What sin are you talking about? You were forgiven already at the Cross and Resurrection

It is true that Jesus died for the sins of the world but do you think that everyone has received forgiveness of their sins even if they do not accept Jesus?

 

[PureX]

Since there is no way to know what God would "want", I cannot answer the question being asked. Neither can anyone else, or their religion. So I am not troubled by anyone's assertions. I can just let the mystery be a mystery.

 

[Brian2]

Since there is no way to know what God would "want", I cannot answer the question being asked. Neither can anyone else, or their religion. So I am not troubled by anyone's assertions. I can just let the mystery be a mystery.

We can know what God wants when He tells us what He wants. It sounds as if you do not think He has told us.

 

[muhammad_isa]

We can count on that forgiveness because that forgiveness of God is not based on us deserving it, or on us repenting hard enough or often enough - but it's based upon the atoning death of Jesus Christ.

Really?
..so a Christian who commits murder without repentance will be forgiven?
No .. most certainly NO !

Religion is no joke .. Divine justice is fair for all.

God forgives you not because of your faith, not because of your repentance, not because of something good you have done..
...
How do you receive this forgiveness?
By faith.

You've contradicted yourself.

 

[PureX]

We can know what God wants when He tells us what He wants. It sounds as if you do not think He has told us.

People often try and play God to other people by proclaiming themselves to be God's messengers. It's an easy way to gain control over them. But the truth is that none of us have been appointed God's 'stand-ins' and none of us should accept anyone or any religion that claims that they are. It would be blatant and grotesque form of idolatry.

Sadly, however, many do.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

What sin are you talking about? You were forgiven already at the Cross and Resurrection

All of it. My point is am I the same person without the ability to sin? I say I am not. God wants to be with the ideal me, not the real me. The real me with my sinful nature will be cast to hell.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Each person's God is an expression of their own ideas of perfection and virtue.

Some compassionate Christians believe that the world would be better with non-adherehts saved; they believe that God's goodness is such that he won't let them go unsaved.

Other, more vindictive Christians, see it as no great loss if non-believers aren't saved. For them, God can still be perfectly good while leaving a non-elect to roast.

Your approach seems to suggest that, mixed up in your values, is self-loathing that your "perfect" God would express. Not sure what to make of that except that it doesn't seem to be coming from a healthy place.

I do not believe in any gods. I am just relaying what the Bible says. If a Christian interprets it differently or does not believe what he bible says then ok. They are all different. But I don't know of any Christians that think we will sin in heaven.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Then it becomes a bit difficult to reply to you

If you are not a Christian then I can understand. I am asking the question to Christians that believe the Bible is true and we will be sinless in heaven.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I am asking the question to Christians that believe the Bible is true and we will be sinless in heaven.

Almighty God would like everybody to go to heaven..
..but alas, He knows they won't.

We are all sinners, but those with a strong faith wil get there eventually, in my understanding.
They will be "purified", much like now, when our suffering can cause us to repent.

Those who refuse to repent are their own worst enemies.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

What a strange interpretation. If he didn't love the you that is now he would not have volunteered to save you from the things that hurt you.

That is a whole different discussion revolving around who made up the rules that I am being judged by in the first place.

The perfect you is the real one. It's your living up to your full potential.

Does God want to spend eternity with me like I am today or the sinless me in the future that He transforms after I die? God chooses not to let me into heaven like I am today because I am a sinner. That is clear. God makes the rules and can let me in to heaven like I am but He chooses not to.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Nobody becomes a clone of Jesus. We are forgiven our sins, and so are sinless in that respect, and our characters have been changed over the years to reflect the character of Jesus more. Iows we are, with our co operation, morally changed to be more like Jesus.
We certainly don't need to be without sin in this life and if we claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. (1John 1:8)

I never said we have to be sinless in this life Only that we must be sinless for God to want to spend eternity with us.

When we are first saved Jesus loves us even though He knows everything we have done and that we will do, and nothing can separate us from that love.

Sure, but living with us forever, not so much.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Anyone can be drawn back and come back to the Christian faith after leaving.

I am not asking this. I am not coming back. My question is about Christian doctrine. Can a person live forever with God without being sinless?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I think you are on the right track. You ask the right questions.

Yes, He expects us to be perfect but also remember that He makes you perfect.

The problem is sin. Paul says in Ephesians 2 that we were, by nature, children of wrath; we were born dead in trespasses.

So, why did Jesus have to come? For sins. His work had to do with sin. What He, as God, had to do was to deal with sin.

How?

What is the solution? - there is forgiveness with God. Forgiveness is the answer to the problem of sin and He has provided it in Jesus Christ. Look again at MT 26:28 “For this is My blood of the covenant which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.”


Your issue might be here - do we deserve it? Do we have to be good enough to warrant it? NO!

We can count on that forgiveness because that forgiveness of God is not based on us deserving it, or on us repenting hard enough or often enough - but it's based upon the atoning death of Jesus Christ.

God forgives us not because of us, but because of His Son. That's why Jesus’ forgiveness if forever.

"This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."

God forgives you not because of your faith, not because of your repentance, not because of something good you have done; God forgives you because of Jesus Christ.

How do you receive this forgiveness?

By faith.
You get that forgiveness by faith. You are accepted and forgiven by God by trusting/believing in a righteous substitute - Christ.

I appreciate the concern. But this is not what I am talking about. I know the gospel message. My question is about God's motivations. Is God willing to spend eternity with me if I have sinned and that sin has not been removed?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Almighty God would like everybody to go to heaven..
..but alas, He knows they won't.

We are all sinners, but those with a strong faith wil get there eventually, in my understanding.
They will be "purified", much like now, when our suffering can cause us to repent.

Those who refuse to repent are their own worst enemies.

God chooses to not live with people that have sinned and that sin has not been removed. That is His choice right? My point is that the sinless me is not me. I am made up of all of mysuccesses and failures. Without my failures (sin) I am a different person, even if that person is better in heaven that is not me. I want people to love me because they know me including my failures and successes. My family and friends do this but God chooses not to.

 

[1213]

....
The idea is you must not have any sin to get to heaven. ..

I hope you don't have a wrong idea about what is sin.