Does the Christian God want you in heaven?

[nPeace]

Can I be sinful and be in heaven?

My point is that God will not allow me in heaven unless my sin is removed, correct?

Of course not... but I don't understand why you are focused on heaven. Is there a specific point you are trying to make?
Why I ask, is because, millions of people will not go to heaven, but they will be sinless.

As I said previously though... we can be in our sinful state, and still be friends of God. So maybe i am missing your point.
Perhaps you can clarify.

 

[nPeace]

All of it. My point is am I the same person without the ability to sin? I say I am not. God wants to be with the ideal me, not the real me. The real me with my sinful nature will be cast to hell.

Oh, this is your point?
God wants to be with the ideal me, not the real me. The real me with my sinful nature will be cast to hell.

I am reading this more than superficially.
If I read it superficially, I would say no. The real you with your sinful nature would not merit God's judgment, since the sinful nature is not what defines you.
Id that were the case, all of us would be "cast to Gehenna",, and none would grt life, or go to heaven.

However, I am seeing below the surface, of your expressions, and it seems to me, you are really saying that the real you - that is, the person you want to be... enjoy being, is a sinner - more specifically, one who practices sin... in other words, does what God disapproves of, and so, you cannot be the ideal person - the person God wants you to be. It's just not you, to be that way, and so, you will never be able to able to "get to heaven", and so will be cast into Gehenna.

Did I understand you correctly?
My apologies, if I read you wrong.

 

[Kenny]

It is true that Jesus died for the sins of the world but do you think that everyone has received forgiveness of their sins even if they do not accept Jesus?

This is how I understand it, taking it from the Gospel of John with the difference being between "sins" and "sin".

John 16:
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

On the Cross Jesus paid for all sin and offers the gift of communion with God. The three things the Holy Spirit is working on are listed:

1) Of sin. Not the sins that have already been paid for bu(t for the "sin, because they believe not on me".
2) Of righteousness. It is finished. Right-standing with God has been satisfied.
3) Of judgment. Notice that it didn't say "mankind is judged" but simply the prince of this world is judged as hell was created for Satan.

As I view it, it goes as follow. Man is forgiven but, because of free will, he still has the option of rejecting the gift by not believing of Jesus who is the author and finisher of it. When one opts not to, he remains in association with the one that is judged, Satan. Guilty by association - not because man is judged but because Satan is judged and by rejecting Jesus (sin) - one enters into Satan's judgment.

Like you are driving a car, the man next to you gets out, robs the bank and kills the teller. You still get a murder charge even if you are driving.

Does that make sense?

 

[Kenny]

All of it. My point is am I the same person without the ability to sin? I say I am not. God wants to be with the ideal me, not the real me. The real me with my sinful nature will be cast to hell.

This is where I disagree.

God wants the real you. If He waits until we are the "ideal me" - He would be very lonely.

Everyone has the ability and does commit sin. It wasn't sinlessness that caused Him to love humanity, love covers the multitude of sins.

 

[nPeace]

Almighty God would like everybody to go to heaven..
..but alas, He knows they won't.

Many persons apparently believe that, but I suppose it depends on what they believe.

The Bible, does hold out a hope of heavenly life, but according to the Bible, almighty God did not create the earth to be uninhabited, but rather, he created it to be inhabited with righteous people. he did not create man to live in heaven in some future day.
Isaiah 45:18 ; Psalms 115:16; Psalms 37:9-11; Psalms 37:29; Proverbs 2:21-22

We know he created the first human pair to live forever on earth. Genesis 1:26-31; Genesis 2:15-17
We also know that original purpose has not changed. Matthew 5:5; Matthew 6:10; Ephesians 1:10

We are all sinners, but those with a strong faith wil get there eventually, in my understanding.
They will be "purified", much like now, when our suffering can cause us to repent.

I believe you are using the Christian Greek scriptures, and that is good.
James Tour, I believe, is Jewish, and I think he accepts Islam, but he also accepts the Gospels, which the Qur'an refers to as scripture from God.
Why do people go to heaven? Do you know the purpose?

Those who refuse to repent are their own worst enemies.

Yes, they separate themselves from God's love.
It's equivalent to disconnecting from life support, or leaving the only available light source, and traveling in the opposite direction.

 

[nPeace]

I appreciate the concern. But this is not what I am talking about. I know the gospel message. My question is about God's motivations. Is God willing to spend eternity with me if I have sinned and that sin has not been removed?

Christ's sacrifice covers sin, or atones for sin.
So there is no sin that God cannot remove... today.
What did God say...
Isaiah 1:18

“Come, now, and let us set matters straight between us,” says Jehovah. “Though your sins are like scarlet, They will be made as white as snow; Though they are as red as crimson cloth, They will become like wool.​

Psalms 103:12-14

12 As far off as the sunrise is from the sunset, So far off from us he has put our transgressions. 13 As a father shows mercy to his sons, Jehovah has shown mercy to those who fear him. 14 For he well knows how we are formed, Remembering that we are dust.​

Isaiah 43:25

I, I am the One who is blotting out your transgressions for my own sake, And I will not remember your sins.​

So, when you say, "if I have sinned and that sin has not been removed", do you mean, if the person is not repentant - that is, is not sorry, remorseful, etc.?

 

[nPeace]

God chooses to not live with people that have sinned and that sin has not been removed. That is His choice right? My point is that the sinless me is not me. I am made up of all of mysuccesses and failures. Without my failures (sin) I am a different person, even if that person is better in heaven that is not me. I want people to love me because they know me including my failures and successes. My family and friends do this but God chooses not to.

I am not sure that came from the Bible. A preacher, maybe.
According to the Bible, God loves you.
(John 3:16) 16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

(1 John 4:9-10) 9 By this the love of God was revealed in our case, that God sent his only-begotten Son into the world so that we might gain life through him. 10 The love is in this respect, not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins.

Think of it this way.
You have children. There is a gang ib the neighborhood - dealing drugs and guns.
You don't want your children hanging with those dudes, but not because you don't love the dudes.
However, until they change their course, your children can't "get with them".
Isn't that true?

God applies the same principle.

 

[nPeace]

So because I have lied or lusted I am the same as an abuser? This is one reason why the doctrine of sin is immoral.

Sin is to miss the mark of God's righteous standards Clizby. Not your standards or mine.

You or I don't get to set the standards for humans - the life giver does... but you don't believe there is one.
So you, or another are free to set your own standards by which you want to live, but others will view those standards as immoral.
Would that bother you?

Just as you judge others by your standards, God judges you by his standards.
Fair?

What you think is immoral, is not what God views as immoral.
What God views as immoral, you don't view as immoral.
The question is, who gets to set the standards.

Here is where you say, you don't believe God exists.
For those who think God does not exist, why does it matter what God does.
If God is, he will do what he does, and what you think, does not matter... also you cannot prolong your life beyond its end.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

In my Christian life I believed that God wanted me to be with Him in heaven. But that is not what the Bible says.

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.~ Romans 8:29-30

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. ~ Matthew 5:48

The idea is you must not have any sin to get to heaven. We must be perfect. This is the reason Jesus died, so we could be sinless in heaven.

But the sinless me is not the real me. I have flaws and do good things and bad things. God does not want to be with me until I am perfect and without sin, only doing good like His son. God wants me to be like Jesus to be with me. God wants Jesus clones, He loves Jesus not me.

Nope, He wants us on Earth. Matthew 5:5
Revelation 21:3-4 (“tent of God is with mankind”)
Isaiah 11:6-9

 

[Hockeycowboy]

…..suffer in hell.

There is no suffering after death…
Ecclesiastes 9:5; Genesis 3:19; Psalms 146:3-4.

That is a man-made lie, made by Christendom, to exert control over people & extort money.

 

[Brian2]

People often try and play God to other people by proclaiming themselves to be God's messengers. It's an easy way to gain control over them. But the truth is that none of us have been appointed God's 'stand-ins' and none of us should accept anyone or any religion that claims that they are. It would be blatant and grotesque form of idolatry.

Sadly, however, many do.

Sadly many do. But it can turn more subtle and sinister once you start trusting what they are saying and find yourself entangled in lies without even realising they are lies.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

John 15:6 ...

So? From my perspective, late, anonymous, Christian apologetics is less than irrelevant.

 

[Brian2]

I am not asking this. I am not coming back. My question is about Christian doctrine. Can a person live forever with God without being sinless?

I think people will know enough to not knowingly sin but will be humble enough to know that they have still a lot to learn.
If we do anything wrong it will probably be like when a baby innocently does something wrong.
Certainly I would say that we will easily be able to avoid obvious moral errors because of our new body which we will be able to control easily and not be controlled by it, as we are now at times because of it's desires which we follow.
I could be wrong, we might be morally perfected straight away. Maybe Heb 12:23 says that.

 

[Brian2]

This is how I understand it, taking it from the Gospel of John with the difference being between "sins" and "sin".

John 16:
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

On the Cross Jesus paid for all sin and offers the gift of communion with God. The three things the Holy Spirit is working on are listed:

1) Of sin. Not the sins that have already been paid for bu(t for the "sin, because they believe not on me".
2) Of righteousness. It is finished. Right-standing with God has been satisfied.
3) Of judgment. Notice that it didn't say "mankind is judged" but simply the prince of this world is judged as hell was created for Satan.

As I view it, it goes as follow. Man is forgiven but, because of free will, he still has the option of rejecting the gift by not believing of Jesus who is the author and finisher of it. When one opts not to, he remains in association with the one that is judged, Satan. Guilty by association - not because man is judged but because Satan is judged and by rejecting Jesus (sin) - one enters into Satan's judgment.

Like you are driving a car, the man next to you gets out, robs the bank and kills the teller. You still get a murder charge even if you are driving.

Does that make sense?

That makes sense I suppose

 

[Aupmanyav]

In my Christian life I believed that God wanted me to be with Him in heaven.

I neither believe in existence of God nor of heaven and hell. Not a question for me.

 

[InChrist]

If we were intended to be good an sinless then why aren't we? Could God not have had a better plan for us to not sin in the first place, then no one would suffer in hell.

God is All Knowing, so if there was a better plan God would have done things differently. He didn’t though because the way He did design things the best way. He wanted free beings who choose good and willingly choose to reject sin. He did not want robotic beings forced to do good.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I never said I want to sin. This is not about me but about God's character. Would you cast your loved ones into hell for lying, or would you want to be with them for eternity event though they have lied?

God's character is perfect holiness. What I would do isn't relevant, because I'm not a perfectly holy, all knowing Being.
I see everything through the lens of my broken humanity. Understanding Gods perfection is impossible, but I trust him to do what is right.

 

[cataway]

In my Christian life I believed that God wanted me to be with Him in heaven. But that is not what the Bible says.

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.~ Romans 8:29-30

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. ~ Matthew 5:48

The idea is you must not have any sin to get to heaven. We must be perfect. This is the reason Jesus died, so we could be sinless in heaven.

But the sinless me is not the real me. I have flaws and do good things and bad things. God does not want to be with me until I am perfect and without sin, only doing good like His son. God wants me to be like Jesus to be with me. God wants Jesus clones, He loves Jesus not me.

you will likely find many disappointments in life

 

[1213]

Well since all Christians do not agree on doctrine I probably have a different idea than others. Sin is doing something against God's will or law.

Hmmm... in that case, do you want to do something against God's law? Why?

I have understood God's law is the ten commandments and they are basically all fulfilled in that you love your neighbor as yourself. Do you have some good reason not to do so?

Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
Romans 13:8

 

[Five Solas]

I appreciate the concern. But this is not what I am talking about. I know the gospel message. My question is about God's motivations. Is God willing to spend eternity with me if I have sinned and that sin has not been removed?

I think you find it hard to believe that Jesus did enough to remove all your sin.

Anyway, you know that Christians are “in this world but not of this world.” The apostle Paul depicts the Church as being in a situation of permanent conflict. In the sixth chapter of Ephesians we read: “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” It would seem that Babylon has not fully fallen, and will not definitively fall, until it is finally displaced by the New Jerusalem of biblical promise. For the Christian, the warfare has not ended; we are still far from our promised home. The New Testament letter to the Hebrews dramatically portrays the continuing struggle of the saints who are far from home.

Yes, we are not in heaven yet. Fight the good fight!! On the one hand, we have come to Mount Zion, the New Jerusalem. On the other, we have here no lasting city but seek the city that is to come. This is frequently described as the “now” and “not yet” of Christian existence.