Does the Christian God want you in heaven?

[Clizby Wampuscat]

This is where I disagree.

God wants the real you. If He waits until we are the "ideal me" - He would be very lonely.

Everyone has the ability and does commit sin. It wasn't sinlessness that caused Him to love humanity, love covers the multitude of sins.

If you believe in heaven, Can I go to heaven as I am today without my sin removed?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Nope, He wants us on Earth. Matthew 5:5
Revelation 21:3-4 (“tent of God is with mankind”)
Isaiah 11:6-9

But can I spend eternity with the God of the bible without forgiveness of my sin?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

There is no suffering after death…
Ecclesiastes 9:5; Genesis 3:19; Psalms 146:3-4.

That is a man-made lie, made by Christendom, to exert control over people & extort money.

Ok, that is not my problem to figure out what Christian doctrine is. Plenty of Christians believe in eternal punishment in hell, maybe God will let them know what the truth is about hell someday. Even if there is no suffering in hell, can I spend eternity with God as I am today without my sin forgiven?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Christ's sacrifice covers sin, or atones for sin.
So there is no sin that God cannot remove... today.
What did God say...
Isaiah 1:18

“Come, now, and let us set matters straight between us,” says Jehovah. “Though your sins are like scarlet, They will be made as white as snow; Though they are as red as crimson cloth, They will become like wool.​

Psalms 103:12-14

12 As far off as the sunrise is from the sunset, So far off from us he has put our transgressions. 13 As a father shows mercy to his sons, Jehovah has shown mercy to those who fear him. 14 For he well knows how we are formed, Remembering that we are dust.​

Isaiah 43:25

I, I am the One who is blotting out your transgressions for my own sake, And I will not remember your sins.​

So, when you say, "if I have sinned and that sin has not been removed", do you mean, if the person is not repentant - that is, is not sorry, remorseful, etc.?

Well in one version of Christianity you must have your sin forgiven by Jesus or you cannot spend eternity with God. He does not want you there is you have sinned.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I am not sure that came from the Bible. A preacher, maybe.
According to the Bible, God loves you.
(John 3:16) 16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

(1 John 4:9-10) 9 By this the love of God was revealed in our case, that God sent his only-begotten Son into the world so that we might gain life through him. 10 The love is in this respect, not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins.

Think of it this way.
You have children. There is a gang ib the neighborhood - dealing drugs and guns.
You don't want your children hanging with those dudes, but not because you don't love the dudes.
However, until they change their course, your children can't "get with them".
Isn't that true?

God applies the same principle.

If those gang members were one of my children I would not abandon them.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Sin is to miss the mark of God's righteous standards Clizby. Not your standards or mine.

You or I don't get to set the standards for humans - the life giver does... but you don't believe there is one.
So you, or another are free to set your own standards by which you want to live, but others will view those standards as immoral.
Would that bother you?

No.

Just as you judge others by your standards, God judges you by his standards.
Fair?

Sure, if God exists. However, that does not make God's standards moral.

What you think is immoral, is not what God views as immoral.
What God views as immoral, you don't view as immoral.
The question is, who gets to set the standards.

As far as I can tell everyone gets to set the standards or agree to whatever standards they want to follow. No one is compelling anyone to follow any particular standard. If God does exist I can still reject his standards or part of his standards as immoral. God can exist and not be moral.

Here is where you say, you don't believe God exists.
For those who think God does not exist, why does it matter what God does.
If God is, he will do what he does, and what you think, does not matter... also you cannot prolong your life beyond its end.

I agree, but what the followers of God do does affect me. That is why I care.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I think people will know enough to not knowingly sin but will be humble enough to know that they have still a lot to learn.
If we do anything wrong it will probably be like when a baby innocently does something wrong.
Certainly I would say that we will easily be able to avoid obvious moral errors because of our new body which we will be able to control easily and not be controlled by it, as we are now at times because of it's desires which we follow.
I could be wrong, we might be morally perfected straight away. Maybe Heb 12:23 says that.

Thanks for your opinion on this.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

God is All Knowing, so if there was a better plan God would have done things differently. He didn’t though because the way He did design things the best way. He wanted free beings who choose good and willingly choose to reject sin. He did not want robotic beings forced to do good.

I can think of a better way. How about everything the same except he does not allow child rape. This would be a better system, right? How have you determined God has done things the best way?

 

[Kenny]

If you believe in heaven, Can I go to heaven as I am today without my sin removed?

Again... I'm not understanding what "sin" you are talking about.

 

[muhammad_isa]

If you believe in heaven, Can I go to heaven as I am today without my sin removed?

No .. you need to repent, as you say you don't believe in God.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

God's character is perfect holiness. What I would do isn't relevant, because I'm not a perfectly holy, all knowing Being.
I see everything through the lens of my broken humanity. Understanding Gods perfection is impossible, but I trust him to do what is right.

I get this, but I no longer so this. Why should I follow someone or a being and just trust they are good. They need to demonstrate that they are good.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I think you find it hard to believe that Jesus did enough to remove all your sin.

I do not believe Jesus was God and could do that.

Anyway, you know that Christians are “in this world but not of this world.” The apostle Paul depicts the Church as being in a situation of permanent conflict. In the sixth chapter of Ephesians we read: “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” It would seem that Babylon has not fully fallen, and will not definitively fall, until it is finally displaced by the New Jerusalem of biblical promise. For the Christian, the warfare has not ended; we are still far from our promised home. The New Testament letter to the Hebrews dramatically portrays the continuing struggle of the saints who are far from home.

Yes, we are not in heaven yet. Fight the good fight!! On the one hand, we have come to Mount Zion, the New Jerusalem. On the other, we have here no lasting city but seek the city that is to come. This is frequently described as the “now” and “not yet” of Christian existence.

Ok, but my statement remains that God will not allow me (with my sin) to live with him forever after I die. I must conform to the likeness of Jesus.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Again... I'm not understanding what "sin" you are talking about.

Depends on what your theology is I guess. Many Christians believe we have all sinned, disobeyed God and such. This is the sin I am talking about.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

No .. you need to repent, as you say you don't believe in God.

This is my point. Not sure if you have read the entire thread.

 

[muhammad_isa]

This is my point..

It's your choice..
Of course you can't be with the righteous in heaven, if you deny the concept.
It wouldn't be heaven[paradise] if the righteous weren't separated from the wicked .. see?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

It's your choice..
Of course you can't be with the righteous in heaven, if you deny the concept.
It wouldn't be heaven[paradise] if the righteous weren't separated from the wicked .. see?

My point is the perfect me is not me. God does not want me in heaven but a Jesus clone.

 

[muhammad_isa]

My point is the perfect me is not me. God does not want me in heaven but a Jesus clone.

I've already explained that to you.
If you stop being stubborn, and open your heart, you will still be "you" .. but you don't want to.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I've already explained that to you.
If you stop being stubborn, and open your heart, you will still be "you" .. but you don't want to.

Please don't tell me what I think. All of us are a product of the experiences we have and the good and bad we do in our lives. If all the bad things I did were taken away I would no longer be the same person.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..All of us are a product of the experiences we have and the good and bad we do in our lives. If all the bad things I did were taken away I would no longer be the same person.

Well, I can't know for sure what you mean, as I'm only reading words, and not your mind.

..but OK, you don't want to be a "different person".

 

[syo]

In my Christian life I believed that God wanted me to be with Him in heaven. But that is not what the Bible says.

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.~ Romans 8:29-30

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. ~ Matthew 5:48

The idea is you must not have any sin to get to heaven. We must be perfect. This is the reason Jesus died, so we could be sinless in heaven.

But the sinless me is not the real me. I have flaws and do good things and bad things. God does not want to be with me until I am perfect and without sin, only doing good like His son. God wants me to be like Jesus to be with me. God wants Jesus clones, He loves Jesus not me.

Perfect. It describes the christian ''god'' perfectly.