Does the Christian God want you in heaven?

[muhammad_isa]

God chooses to not live with people that have sinned and that sin has not been removed. That is His choice right? My point is that the sinless me is not me..

No, that's wrong .. you are still you .. you will be purified
i.e. your sins will be forgiven and you will no longer want to sin

"purified" doesn't mean that your heart or brain will be irradiated, or something. You won't be given a lobotomy.

Of course, if you insist on disbelief, there is no way that you can be forgiven. Who/what will forgive you?

 

[Muffled]

In my Christian life I believed that God wanted me to be with Him in heaven. But that is not what the Bible says.

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.~ Romans 8:29-30

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. ~ Matthew 5:48

The idea is you must not have any sin to get to heaven. We must be perfect. This is the reason Jesus died, so we could be sinless in heaven.

But the sinless me is not the real me. I have flaws and do good things and bad things. God does not want to be with me until I am perfect and without sin, only doing good like His son. God wants me to be like Jesus to be with me. God wants Jesus clones, He loves Jesus not me.

I believe this is the more likely scenario: Mat. 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. I believe the Kingdom of heaven is not the same thing as Heaven. The Kingdom of heaven is within you. Luke 17:20 Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.

I believe that is the goal but it is also attributed to the person who has received Jesus as Lord and Savior.

I believe that is not the case. Everyone in Heaven is sinless. Jesus died to guarantee forgiveness of sins.

I believe God is always with everyone but not everyone wishes to acknowledge Him.

I believe that is false. God so loved the world (everyone) that He gave His only Son. John 3:16.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I hope you don't have a wrong idea about what is sin.

Well since all Christians do not agree on doctrine I probably have a different idea than others. Sin is doing something against God's will or law.

 

[Muffled]

In what way?

John 15:6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.

 

[Muffled]

We are all sinners.
That doesn't mean that we shouldn't TRY to be righteous.

If you don't try, then you have no chance.
Almighty God forgives a trier.

I believe I tried and failed miserably. Only having Jesus as my Lord and Savior keeps me from sin.

 

[InChrist]

All of it. My point is am I the same person without the ability to sin? I say I am not. God wants to be with the ideal me, not the real me. The real me with my sinful nature will be cast to hell.

If you truly love sin so much that you refuse to let go of it and desire to perpetuate harm and evil, why shouldn’t you be cast into hell? You don’t want change, you don’t want freedom or forgiveness, you don’t want God’s light, truth, love, goodness, joy, beauty in the eternal new heaven and earth; so why shouldn’t you be separated forever?

 

[InChrist]

I appreciate the concern. But this is not what I am talking about. I know the gospel message. My question is about God's motivations. Is God willing to spend eternity with me if I have sinned and that sin has not been removed?

Even humans know the importance of having boundaries. No wise person let’s an abuser continue to live in their home. Sometimes it’s even necessary to get a restraining order or have the evildoer locked up in prison.
God is far wiser. Thankfully, no sin is allowed in heaven.

 

[InChrist]

God chooses to not live with people that have sinned and that sin has not been removed. That is His choice right? My point is that the sinless me is not me. I am made up of all of mysuccesses and failures. Without my failures (sin) I am a different person, even if that person is better in heaven that is not me. I want people to love me because they know me including my failures and successes. My family and friends do this but God chooses not to.

Humans are all flawed so we have no choice but to accept each other’s sins and shortcomings. God has a better plan, which is to free us from such flaws which are the result of sin and restore us to the good and sinless creation we were intended to be.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

No, that's wrong .. you are still you .. you will be purified
i.e. your sins will be forgiven and you will no longer want to sin

"purified" doesn't mean that your heart or brain will be irradiated, or something. You won't be given a lobotomy.

I never said this. But if I am the image of Jesus then that is not me or how I lived my life. Heaven will be a bunch of people in the image of Jesus not who they were when alive.

Of course, if you insist on disbelief, there is no way that you can be forgiven. Who/what will forgive you?

I don't need to be forgiven by a God. As people we forgive each other. I don't insist on disbelief. Belief is not a choice. I am not convinced by the evidence that God exists.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Almighty God would like everybody to go to heaven..
..but alas, He knows they won't.

We are all sinners, but those with a strong faith wil get there eventually, in my understanding.
They will be "purified", much like now, when our suffering can cause us to repent.

Those who refuse to repent are their own worst enemies.

Convince me I have sinned against a god and I will think about it.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I believe this is the more likely scenario: Mat. 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. I believe the Kingdom of heaven is not the same thing as Heaven. The Kingdom of heaven is within you. Luke 17:20 Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.

I believe that is the goal but it is also attributed to the person who has received Jesus as Lord and Savior.

I believe that is not the case. Everyone in Heaven is sinless. Jesus died to guarantee forgiveness of sins.

I believe God is always with everyone but not everyone wishes to acknowledge Him.

I believe that is false. God so loved the world (everyone) that He gave His only Son. John 3:16.

I love my kids. If I could live with them forever after we all die I would like to do that. I would not need them to be perfect to be with them.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Does God want to spend eternity with me like I am today or the sinless me in the future that He transforms after I die? God chooses not to let me into heaven like I am today because I am a sinner. That is clear. God makes the rules and can let me in to heaven like I am but He chooses not to

Everyone sins, even those God "lets" into heaven. So the issue isn't sinning per se. Sin cannot continue to exist in a perfect place, and why in creation would you want to continue to be the broken you when you could be what you were created to be, finally in a place where you don't have any more brokenness?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

If you truly love sin so much that you refuse to let go of it and desire to perpetuate harm and evil, why shouldn’t you be cast into hell? You don’t want change, you don’t want freedom or forgiveness, you don’t want God’s light, truth, love, goodness, joy, beauty in the eternal new heaven and earth; so why shouldn’t you be separated forever?

Not my point.

BTW, being sent to hell for lying is immoral and unethical.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Even humans know the importance of having boundaries. No wise person let’s an abuser continue to live in their home. Sometimes it’s even necessary to get a restraining order or have the evildoer locked up in prison.
God is far wiser. Thankfully, no sin is allowed in heaven.

So because I have lied or lusted I am the same as an abuser? This is one reason why the doctrine of sin is immoral.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Humans are all flawed so we have no choice but to accept each other’s sins and shortcomings. God has a better plan, which is to free us from such flaws which are the result of sin and restore us to the good and sinless creation we were intended to be.

If we were intended to be good an sinless then why aren't we? Could God not have had a better plan for us to not sin in the first place, then no one would suffer in hell.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Everyone sins, even those God "lets" into heaven. So the issue isn't sinning per se. Sin cannot continue to exist in a perfect place, and why in creation would you want to continue to be the broken you when you could be what you were created to be, finally in a place where you don't have any more brokenness?

I never said I want to sin. This is not about me but about God's character. Would you cast your loved ones into hell for lying, or would you want to be with them for eternity event though they have lied?

 

[muhammad_isa]

I don't need to be forgiven by a God. As people we forgive each other..

If somebody bangs you over the head with a hammer, will you forgive them?
What if they do it again .. and again .. and they are not sorry?

I think it makes no sense to forgive them. They need locking up.

You speak about "a God" as if it is an earthly King.
It is much more subtle than that.

Almighty God is aware of what is in our hearts [our intentions]
There is no compulsion to believe a particular creed.
What is the reward of good, except good?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Could God not have had a better plan for us to not sin in the first place, then no one would suffer in hell.

Really?
My brain tells me that free-will and "compulsion not to sin" are mutually exclusive.
If we use our free-will for the good, we can spiritually grow.
If not..

 

[AdamjEdgar]

God wants me to be like Jesus to be with me. God wants Jesus clones, He loves Jesus not me.

Why did you not also quote the apostle Paul in this?

since you quote him in Romans, why do you not also include Hebrews Chapter 4?

you have left out an extremely important part of Paul's doctrine...

For example...
1Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.

And
3For we who have believed do enter that rest,

And
9There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.

And finally
16Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace

 

[nPeace]

I am not trying to be sinless to get to heaven, but that is not my point. My point is that a sinless me is not really me.

Oh, okay.
Of course. It's really up to you what you want to be.

We are all born sinners, but it's really up to us if we want to remain sinners, or not.
We can be sinless (not presently), and it would still be us, but of course, that depends on our course in life.
The apostle Paul said...

"...this is what I say and bear witness to in the Lord, that you should no longer go on walking just as the nations also walk, in the futility of their minds. They are in darkness mentally and alienated from the life that belongs to God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the insensitivity of their hearts.
Having gone past all moral sense, they gave themselves over to brazen conduct to practice every sort of uncleanness with greediness.
But you did not learn the Christ to be like this, if, indeed, you heard him and were taught by means of him, just as truth is in Jesus. You were taught to put away the old personality that conforms to your former course of conduct and that is being corrupted according to its deceptive desires. And you should continue to be made new in your dominant mental attitude, and should put on the new personality that was created according to God’s will in true righteousness and loyalty." - Ephesians 4:17-24

". . .stop being molded by this system of things, but be transformed by making your mind over. . ." - (Romans 12:2)​

Read Romans 8

So really, it's not about our sinful state at all, but rather, it's about our mental state - our mind / heart. The person we really are on the inside. That's who we really are.

So if we prefer to be molded by this world, we have really chosen to be at enmity with God. James 4:4
If this is what we want, God does not prevent us from making that choice. He gave us that choice... He would like us to choose to be his friend, but if we would rather not be... Deuteronomy 30:19, 20

That's why I said, If we love sinning, then we really are separating ourselves from God's love, and cannot benefit from Christ's sacrifice.
So, it's not that God does not love someone. Rather, it's the case that someone draws away from God, and his love. Jude 1:21

So, I understand what you are saying.
The person you really are on the inside, is not in harmony with God's spirit, but rather against his spirit.... and that's the person you want to be.
Is that accurate?