Does The Koran Teach "Kill The Infidels"

[Godobeyer]

it is a clear rule in islam that any one who leaves the religion is to be killed while in a country that practices sharia law. What i don't understand is when other muslims say that this is not in the qu'ran or that we're misinterpretting it :\

Sharia law is based by the Quran , and the Hadithe (speech of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him)

 

[Kerr]

its God law

Sounds like a rather stupid law. Besides, this is not something that everyone agree is Gods law.

 

[Breathe]

the Islam and Christianity and Judiasm based to God law ,the Torah for the Jews , the Gospels for the Christians ,the Quran and the Sunna for the Muslims .

Is there any proof of this claim? Can you prove the God of the Torah and New Testament and Quran exists, and if he does, that he is God, and that if one of them exists, this is the same as the other ones? How do you know that one of them is not true, but the others are false?

the God law (not Gods law as you said) not able to discussion, if you did not know the reason why ... but most of time the reason already knowning....

Is there any proof of this claim either? (I don't entirely follow what you mean, though.. can you elaborate?)


Just repeating it's "the God law" doesn't mean it is. You need to prove the existence of a deity (scriptural books are not proof) but you also need to prove that the deity is the one you worship, that the deity has laws, and that this is one of the laws that the deity has if you want to go around killing people for such things.


Otherwise, no it's not a Divine Law. It's claimed to be one, but that is very much open for debate.

 

[YmirGF]

the Islam and Christianity and Judiasm based to God law ,the Torah for the Jews , the Gospels for the Christians ,the Quran and the Sunna for the Muslims .

Well, that is certainly breathtaking reasoning.

the God law (not Gods law as you said) not able to discussion, if you did not know the reason why ... but most of time the reason already knowning....

I am going out on a limb and assert that English is not your mother tongue. What you have to bear in mind is that, in English, your words above, as given, do not make a lick of sense. Oh... for the record I meant "god's" law.

So, are you perfectly happy murdering someone who wants to leave Islam?

 

[asidd01]

I havent read through the thread but in general my opinion is no it doesnt say kill the infidels.
In my 15 years going to a sunni mosque i have never heard anything remotely similar to that.
But then again i know there must be some mosques who do show this message to the ignorant and yes, do believe in killing infidels. This is where i dont understand why the mass sunni muslims dont show their point of view which is different to so called sunnis like wahaabis and salafis.
Words like kaafir, jihad or any other words related i feel i have learnt about through news channels more than my own mosque!!

 

[YmirGF]

Words like kaafir, jihad or any other words related i feel i have learnt about through news channels more than my own mosque!!

Then I would suggest that you educate yourself from more reliable sources.

 

[Preterist]

According to the Koran, Allah has no son. vs-

"This is my beloved SON". :bow:

 

[oldasdirt]

It's a link bahai.org. Ten minutes there should answer your questions in a general manner, then you can ask particular questions.

Regards,
Scott

maybe you should have read wikipedia. you defend islam yet:

"Bahá'ís continue to be persecuted in Islamic countries, as Islamic leaders do not recognize the Bahá'í Faith as an independent religion, but rather as apostasy faith from Islam. The most severe persecutions have occurred in Iran, where over 200 Bahá'ís were executed between 1978 and 1998,[ and in egypt. The rights of Bahá'ís have been restricted to greater or lesser extents in numerous other countries"

islam persecutes everyone that is not islam. you have been defending how peaceful and accepting they are this whole thread, yet you point us in a direction that defeats your whole argument.

well played.

 

[McBell]

maybe you should have read wikipedia. you defend islam yet:

"Bahá'ís continue to be persecuted in Islamic countries, as Islamic leaders do not recognize the Bahá'í Faith as an independent religion, but rather as apostasy faith from Islam. The most severe persecutions have occurred in Iran, where over 200 Bahá'ís were executed between 1978 and 1998,[ and in egypt. The rights of Bahá'ís have been restricted to greater or lesser extents in numerous other countries"

islam persecutes everyone that is not islam. you have been defending how peaceful and accepting they are this whole thread, yet you point us in a direction that defeats your whole argument.

well played.

You will not be getting a reply from Popeyesays.

FYI:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/rf-memorials/78394-popeyesays-has-passed-away.html
​

 

[Rainbow Mage]

maybe you should have read wikipedia. you defend islam yet:

"Bahá'ís continue to be persecuted in Islamic countries, as Islamic leaders do not recognize the Bahá'í Faith as an independent religion, but rather as apostasy faith from Islam. The most severe persecutions have occurred in Iran, where over 200 Bahá'ís were executed between 1978 and 1998,[ and in egypt. The rights of Bahá'ís have been restricted to greater or lesser extents in numerous other countries"

islam persecutes everyone that is not islam. you have been defending how peaceful and accepting they are this whole thread, yet you point us in a direction that defeats your whole argument.

well played.

This and many other reasons is why I call "Islam" a perversion of Muhammad's teachings. Islamic countries may behave that way, but the Koran doesn't tell them to.

 

[waitasec]

Islam is at war with all the unbelievers until they become Muslim.

i'm not sure i agree with this...but can someone of the muslim faith, since francine is banned, come up with a defense against this claim?

i would like to start a dialogue with someone to enable me to explain to my dear mother why she doesn't need to feel fearful in the presence of a muslim wearing their garb...

 

[ninerbuff]

Those who killed Christ were blind to who Christ was and killed the savior of the world

Isn't the story that to become the savior, christ HAD to die? If christ didn't then wouldn't christians have no way to god?

 

[ninerbuff]

Regardless of religion, who ever is in power of each (holding the highest "seat") makes decisions that affect their religion. And IMO, it all comes down to who has the most influence and money. The POOR never win. Maybe in their minds they do, but throughout history, the poor are exploited especially by religion.

 

[Gaura Priya]

i'm not sure i agree with this...but can someone of the muslim faith, since francine is banned, come up with a defense against this claim?

i would like to start a dialogue with someone to enable me to explain to my dear mother why she doesn't need to feel fearful in the presence of a muslim wearing their garb...

I'm surprised that no one has thought of quoting the Qur'anic verses in context!


"Fight in the way of God against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! God loveth not aggressors.
And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you there then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

But if they desist, then lo! God is Forgiving, Merciful.

And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for God. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers."

--Qur'an 2:190-193


This was written during a violent time for Muhammad, where He dealt with oath-breakers, and for the first seven years of his ministry, was completely pacifist. The result of this pacifism unfortunately led His followers to be harrassed, raped, tortured, killed, and discriminated against.

So if you read these Qur'anic verses, yes, God does allow a war, but ONLY if they are the aggressors and you are defending, since 'persecution is worse than slaughter.' And do not fight at the mosque, since, well, God doesn't like aggression. AND if they stop, then you must stop, and let them be.

This strongly contrasts to the Tanakh (Bible) and the commands of God to go outright into slaughter. In the Qur'an, there are rules and limitations.

But see the conclusions: God does not love aggressors. God is the Merciful, the Forgiving.

 

[Gaura Priya]

maybe you should have read wikipedia. you defend islam yet:

"Bahá'ís continue to be persecuted in Islamic countries, as Islamic leaders do not recognize the Bahá'í Faith as an independent religion, but rather as apostasy faith from Islam. The most severe persecutions have occurred in Iran, where over 200 Bahá'ís were executed between 1978 and 1998,[ and in egypt. The rights of Bahá'ís have been restricted to greater or lesser extents in numerous other countries"

islam persecutes everyone that is not islam. you have been defending how peaceful and accepting they are this whole thread, yet you point us in a direction that defeats your whole argument.

well played.

Interesting that you know how to lump together a whole entire religion with fundamentalists.

Well done. Because I'm sure that the Ahmadi Muslims are slaughtering people right now as we speak... (pssst, Ahmadis are pacifist Muslims, if you didn't know already!)

 

[waitasec]

I'm surprised that no one has thought of quoting the Qur'anic verses in context!


"Fight in the way of God against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! God loveth not aggressors.
And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you there then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

But if they desist, then lo! God is Forgiving, Merciful.

And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for God. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers."

--Qur'an 2:190-193


This was written during a violent time for Muhammad, where He dealt with oath-breakers, and for the first seven years of his ministry, was completely pacifist. The result of this pacifism unfortunately led His followers to be harrassed, raped, tortured, killed, and discriminated against.

So if you read these Qur'anic verses, yes, God does allow a war, but ONLY if they are the aggressors and you are defending, since 'persecution is worse than slaughter.' And do not fight at the mosque, since, well, God doesn't like aggression. AND if they stop, then you must stop, and let them be.

This strongly contrasts to the Tanakh (Bible) and the commands of God to go outright into slaughter. In the Qur'an, there are rules and limitations.

But see the conclusions: God does not love aggressors. God is the Merciful, the Forgiving.

thank your for that...but couldn't this also be cherry picked out of context for the extremist to use as justification... with the sectarian violence we see, what constitutes a war?

 

[Gaura Priya]

thank your for that...but couldn't this also be cherry picked out of context for the extremist to use as justification... with the sectarian violence we see, what constitutes a war?

But doesn't anybody who is an extremist?

According to the Qur'an, a war only begins when a party becomes the aggressor. According to the Qur'an, no Muslim is to be an aggressor.

Buddhists have been blessing their Burmese armies for years, and have been animated against Muslims to burning their mosques.

Christians and Jews have also used their sacred texts to commit attrocious acts of violence in the name of God.

Knowing the historical context of Muhammad's ministry and prophethood, and then understanding the Qur'an from that context, as well as the verses surround it make up for a more evolved understanding of tribal warfare (since Judaism, Christianity [in some sense] and Islam did originate as desert religions for survival) than in the previous Dispensations.

It is why Ahmadi Muslims have also taken to pacifism; as one of the most interesting Islamic denominations in history, they have certainly seen the Qur'an meaning to become pacifist and do community service; contrast that with Sunnis insisting on heteropraxy and Shiahs and being caught up in the descendents of Ali and seeking justice for that loss.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

The Koran speaks against Muslims who would transgress these limits of war. After the verses Falcon mentioned it says: These are the limits prescribed by Allah, and lo, Allah does not love those who transgress limits.

 

[waitasec]

But doesn't anybody who is an extremist?

i see what you mean,
but would it be fair to say sectarian violence is more prevalent in muslim countries?

According to the Qur'an, a war only begins when a party becomes the aggressor. According to the Qur'an, no Muslim is to be an aggressor.

Buddhists have been blessing their Burmese armies for years, and have been animated against Muslims to burning their mosques.

Christians and Jews have also used their sacred texts to commit attrocious acts of violence in the name of God.

these acts are really about justified bigotry...from my perspective.
how does peace prevail if one group claims to be persecuted by the oppressors while the other group claims they are being oppressed?

Knowing the historical context of Muhammad's ministry and prophethood, and then understanding the Qur'an from that context, as well as the verses surround it make up for a more evolved understanding of tribal warfare (since Judaism, Christianity [in some sense] and Islam did originate as desert religions for survival) than in the previous Dispensations.

which means the context of muhammad's ministry was for a distant time...
it keeps clashing with the rest of the developing world...especially in terms of human rights violations

It is why Ahmadi Muslims have also taken to pacifism; as one of the most interesting Islamic denominations in history, they have certainly seen the Qur'an meaning to become pacifist and do community service; contrast that with Sunnis insisting on heteropraxy and Shiahs and being caught up in the descendents of Ali and seeking justice for that loss.

is this sect a minority within the islamic religion?

 

[Gaura Priya]

i see what you mean,
but would it be fair to say sectarian violence is more prevalent in muslim countries?

How about a good 'yes' and 'no,' since violence is everywhere wherever there is dictatorship and strong limitations of freedom. Let's say that Buddhism was one of the most widespread religion - there would be many Buddhists who would still become elitist, still bless armies, still fight, etc.

Islam, having taken into Wahhabi doctrine, can be considered fundamentalist, but this is not the same with other places. such as Canada, where Islam is considered just one of the many religions out there.

Remember that the Wahhabi interpretation of Islam is an extremist interpretation as of late, as much as fundamentalism developed as of late in Christianity.

these acts are really about justified bigotry...from my perspective.
how does peace prevail if one group claims to be persecuted by the oppressors while the other group claims they are being oppressed?

If you're sucking on a lollipop and I take it from you, I'm the aggressor; I am the one that has committed the crime.

Acts of violence should only be done in defense from physical harm, and that is where the Qur'an clarifies this.

which means the context of muhammad's ministry was for a distant time...
it keeps clashing with the rest of the developing world...especially in terms of human rights violations

Turkey is a very progressive Islamic state... and in Canada, obviously it is not clashing here (except Quebec; but they don't want to be part of Canada anyways). Like "Little Mosque on the Prairie"!

is this sect a minority within the islamic religion?

Yes, but it is the third largest Islamic ideological group after Sunnis and Shiahs.

And schools of philosophy and interpretation, such as Ismaili, or Wahhabi, are, well, schools of interpretation on how the Qur'an is translated into daily life. Just like how the Buddhist Scriptures have been used in a variety of ways to support elitism, importance of men over women, disparity between the monastics and laypeople, etc.