Does the universe need intelligence to order it?

[godnotgod]

"Again, this is conditioned mind; Higher Consciousness is unconditioned awakened consciousness."

You can't back any of this up. Your just throwing your thoughts and beliefs out. All your saying is philosophy.

Do you agree that there exist cases of mental conditioning?

 

[Thief]

I'm not the one living in terror of spending an eternity screaming your bloody head off in some forgotten grave, as you are. Just a taste of Forbidden Fruit will show you that there is no death to be concerned about.

So...you DO exist?

 

[Tiapan]

Dumping all the atoms in one place and hoping we get a living object is a stretch. However the fact we exist indicates it is actually possible, but not by simply dumping a pile of atoms in a jar and gently shaking.
Computers are rapidly advancing with connection counts doubling, according to Moores Law, every 18months. By 2045 the average household computer will have ten times more connections than a human brain. To add to the complexity over a billion computers are neurally networked today through the internet so already we are looking at a massive "brain".

Now remember affordable personal computers have only been around for less than 30 years, and I agree they may sit there as a chunk of components forever, however as the CPUs, speed and connections increase the chances also increase that a virus or an odd bit of code deliberate or accidental could well trigger a quantum change resulting some equivalent of sentience.

This network has eyes and sensors, controls major power and manufacturing complexes is extensively incorporated into national defense, banking, Medicine personal and daily business. It can process vaste quantities of data rapidly, remember most of our brain function is tied up in equivalent menial matters with only a small fraction devoted to our filtered precised executive summary reconstructed 4D virtual reality model that dwells deep in the warm dark grey matter of our brains that we call consciousness, sentience, id ego self etc..

 

[shawn001]

Do you agree that there exist cases of mental conditioning?

As in Pavlovs dog?

Please define

 

[shawn001]

Because it's a repetitive cycle, like everything else in nature. Just because there is disorder does not mean there is no intelligence. Because there is order, there must be disorder.

"Because it's a repetitive cycle"

You know this how? You don't have to respond on it, because its a belief you don't really know.

You haven't shown anything that shows what so ever the universe itself is intelligent. Your also know using intelligent to mean consciousness.

Is this intelligent design?

 

[shawn001]

The entire universe is play.

That's a random comment!

 

[godnotgod]

So...you DO exist?

Who is it that lives?

Who is it that dies?

 

[godnotgod]

Dumping all the atoms in one place and hoping we get a living object is a stretch. However the fact we exist indicates it is actually possible, but not by simply dumping a pile of atoms in a jar and gently shaking.
Computers are rapidly advancing with connection counts doubling, according to Moores Law, every 18months. By 2045 the average household computer will have ten times more connections than a human brain. To add to the complexity over a billion computers are neurally networked today through the internet so already we are looking at a massive "brain".

Now remember affordable personal computers have only been around for less than 30 years, and I agree they may sit there as a chunk of components forever, however as the CPUs, speed and connections increase the chances also increase that a virus or an odd bit of code deliberate or accidental could well trigger a quantum change resulting some equivalent of sentience.

This network has eyes and sensors, controls major power and manufacturing complexes is extensively incorporated into national defense, banking, Medicine personal and daily business. It can process vaste quantities of data rapidly, remember most of our brain function is tied up in equivalent menial matters with only a small fraction devoted to our filtered precised executive summary reconstructed 4D virtual reality model that dwells deep in the warm dark grey matter of our brains that we call consciousness, sentience, id ego self etc..

So humans created brains called computers via consciousness.

And yet, they cannot (yet) self-replicate as biological life can, nor photosynthesize like a blade of grass can without a brain.

 

[godnotgod]

As in Pavlovs dog?

Please define

As in everyday life. Religious believers have been mentally conditioned via religious doctrine, for example. Americans, Russians, etc. have been mentally conditioned via political indoctrination. In general, all social beings have been conditioned to see their world in particular ways. Do you agree?

 

[godnotgod]

"Because it's a repetitive cycle"

You know this how? You don't have to respond on it, because its a belief you don't really know.

You haven't shown anything that shows what so ever the universe itself is intelligent. Your also know using intelligent to mean consciousness.

Is this intelligent design?

What are the activities of nature? Are they cyclical, or do they occur randomly, without a pattern?

 

[godnotgod]

That's a random comment!

You asked what intelligence is being displayed. I am saying that the universe is play, and play is intelligence. When you look at the world, what do you see? You see infinite variety with no apparent rhyme or reason. The sheer existence of this variety translates to creative play. It is the highest form of intelligence.

 

[godnotgod]

Dumping all the atoms in one place and hoping we get a living object is a stretch. However the fact we exist indicates it is actually possible, but not by simply dumping a pile of atoms in a jar and gently shaking.
.

OK. So there's more to it than that. As an intelligent being yourself, what would YOU require, at the bare minimum, to render a 'living object', and more importantly, a conscious being capable of introspection, compassion, and a whole range of emotions?

 

[godnotgod]

“Nothing is what rocks dream about”

― Aristotle

The Universe is what Nothingness is dreaming about.

 

[godnotgod]

Yes. Generally the accepted criteria is empiricism.

So empirical observation tells you what is delusion and what is not?

Because I can observe dreaming as well as know several charactaristis of dreams that do not appy to my current state.

Not sure I understand what you are saying, but is there another way you can know you have been dreaming?

I don't fully recall the context of this statement.

You had made the following statement:

'As far as dreaming goes its because I can witness other people dreaming. We have an understanding of dreams. This higher conciousness has no such thing.'

The brain and subsequent functions.

So mind and the brain are identical? Mind is non-material; the brain material. How does the material brain create non-material mind?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Monkeys haven't been typing for 3.7 billion years yet, and no-one has offered them all a word processor yet.

That really made me laugh, so thank you.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Do you spend time talking to the gravel in your drive way?

LOL

 

[Monk Of Reason]

So empirical observation tells you what is delusion and what is not?

Careful consideration by multiple individuals based on empirical evidence is yes.

Not sure I understand what you are saying, but is there another way you can know you have been dreaming?

I am not not sure what you are talking about. I have a feeling your trying to coax me into some sort of answer that you have in mind and I think this will be a lot faster if you come out and say it.

You had made the following statement:

'As far as dreaming goes its because I can witness other people dreaming. We have an understanding of dreams. This higher conciousness has no such thing.'

The higher consciousness that you speak of has no such observable evidence except for those that have allegedly experienced it in a fully subjective way. A group of people that had allgedly been abducted by aliens will be able to deliberate on those subjective experiences but its not evidence because there is no empirical evidence to speak of.

So mind and the brain are identical? Mind is non-material; the brain material. How does the material brain create non-material mind?

I don't believe the mind is non-material. I think it is a system that exhibits qualities and those qualities are often misconstrued as having come from some non-material object such as a soul.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

A group of people that had allgedly been abducted by aliens will be able to deliberate on those subjective experiences but its not evidence because there is no empirical evidence to speak of.

An apt comparison I think.

 

[Thief]

Who is it that lives?

Who is it that dies?

Pretending to be an owl....does not make you wise.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I think you do. What you said in your preceding post ( #2817 ) was a belief.

It's not a criticism, I mean we all have beliefs and assumptions. The debate is about how valid they are, and whether they are based on something tangible or just on wishful thinking.

I do see a lot of clutching at metaphysical straws. Human life is brief, challenging and uncertain, and it seems people have a strong need for something comforting to believe in. That's understandable, but let's at least be honest about why people have the beliefs they do.

Mr Norman,
So what is your belief? Buddha? Or is it a philosophical stance of thinking your atheist learning actually helps you in some way or puts you above others? You must have a leaning, you said so yourself.